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Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord #5005839
02/09/19 01:55 PM
02/09/19 01:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Astro_Guy Online content OP
Astro_Guy  Online Content OP

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Here's a Blackstone UOA for a car that sees mostly highway miles, 100 miles per day on weekdays. The filter was a Fram XG7317, changed out with the oil. The vehicle was purchased as a Certified Pre--Owned Honda in May of last year with a little over 6500 miles on it. The CarFax indicated that the original dealer changed out the factory fill at 3800 miles. The first sample is an unknown dealer oil added when they certified the vehicle. This vehicle is equipped with the 2.4 liter L4 "Earth Dreams" engine, which is normally aspirated Direct Injection.

I've used this same oil in two other Hondas, but neither were DI engines. The results were far different in those engines, both showing single digit wear number on Aluminum and Iron. My thoughts are to drop the OCI back to 6K on this round and perhaps switch to a 5w-30 the next time. Any opinion on that?


'01 Volvo V70XC, 235k, 10W-30 M1 High Mileage
'16 Accord, 26k, 0W-20 M1 EP
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005849
02/09/19 02:02 PM
02/09/19 02:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,653
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,653
[email protected] CZ firearm factory
Nice car. Try a HTO-6 spec 5w30. Summer coming before long and I would try it at 6k miles give or take. Maybe buy a Fram Ultra filter and change it every other time.


15' Civic 1.8 i-vtec 213,000 mi 0w20 Redline/Redline CVT/Archoil9100/TEIN/Eibach/Tanabe Sustec/Borla Exhaust/87 E0 fuel/Yokohama
Son of a Navy Corpsman. Support vets!


Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005852
02/09/19 02:05 PM
02/09/19 02:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,384
OBX & Central FL
NormanBuntz Offline
NormanBuntz  Offline

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,384
OBX & Central FL
Over the past 29 years, I've owned several Hondas and Acuras. I've always found that if you're loyal with regular oil changes, they run almost forever with little oil consumption. I keep my 2013 Accord in Florida where I don't need a 0w oil. Next OC I'll be switching from the dealer's 0w-20 to Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20. Love the 2.4L engine. The CVT not so much.

I'd trim back your interval from 10K to 8K, even with all of those highway miles. It's cheap insurance.


2017 Honda Odyssey SE, 18K
2013 Honda Accord LX, 59K
2007 Honda Ridgeline RTS, 89K
2007 Infiniti M35, 107K
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005859
02/09/19 02:13 PM
02/09/19 02:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,528
Maricopa, Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,528
Maricopa, Arizona
Boring as Boring can be. You can go further if you like 15K miles easy.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005865
02/09/19 02:18 PM
02/09/19 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,631
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,631
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Blackstone is notoriously low on fuel % detection, I wouldn't go any farther than 10K, for sure, I bet the fuel number was a little higher, esp. if the oil was coal black when you drained it. 10K on 5W30 EP in my xB is only a light medium brown (not a DI engine).


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: dave1251] #5005882
02/09/19 02:39 PM
02/09/19 02:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Astro_Guy Online content OP
Astro_Guy  Online Content OP

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Marco620
Nice car. Try a HTO-6 spec 5w30.
Isn't that a spec for turbos? I see that M1 EP 5w-30 meets it, so I may just give it a try.

Originally Posted by dave1251
Boring as Boring can be. You can go further if you like 15K miles easy.
Yes and no. Blackstone attributed the wear numbers on the first round to residual break in. Here we are ten thousand miles later and the numbers are heading in the wrong direction. The Iron is running nearly three times what I had seen in either of the Civics that preceded this car using the same oil and filter.

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005925
02/09/19 03:37 PM
02/09/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,754
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline
DuckRyder  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,754
Atlanta
I feel like the fuel dilution is off based on the flashpoint.

I’m not sure what I think about the rest of it yet. What did they say the universal averages are based on mileage wise and do they differentiate between versions of the K24 (For instance they lump the Acura in with “Honda 3.5L” which are mostly J35 vs the Acuras C35)


Robert
  • 2007 Toyota Prius Touring
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 Ford F100
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: DuckRyder] #5005928
02/09/19 03:41 PM
02/09/19 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Astro_Guy Online content OP
Astro_Guy  Online Content OP

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by DuckRyder
I feel like the fuel dilution is off based on the flashpoint.

I’m not sure what I think about the rest of it yet. What did they say the universal averages are based on mileage wise and do they differentiate between versions of the K24 (For instance they lump the Acura in with “Honda 3.5L” which are mostly J35 vs the Acuras C35)
Don't know - what you see is what you get!


'01 Volvo V70XC, 235k, 10W-30 M1 High Mileage
'16 Accord, 26k, 0W-20 M1 EP
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005934
02/09/19 03:48 PM
02/09/19 03:48 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,278
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,278
The land of USA-made Subies!
Astro, I'm not sure what's going on with your Honda, but I know that my Odyssey likely ran conventional 5W20 for most of its life prior to me getting it at 134k. I drove it home 2200 miles and then drained it (likely around 6500-7k total miles) and the iron was OMFG 31 ppm, the highest I've ever personally had. I was sure it was doomed. I dropped that OCI and filled with non-GTL PP 5W20 for two 3k OCIs and drained and changed the filter. Then I did a 7600 mile OCI on PP Euro 0W40 and iron dropped all the way down to 8ppm, and has stayed under double digits ever since in the ensuing 50k miles of service.

I'm not sure why your iron would have stayed so high, but I would do a short 3k OCI with good filter, dump it, and then go back to a regular 8-10k OCI. Also, remember, that Mobil1 has a tendency to "show" higher iron numbers than comparable oils, but this can simply be due to the detergent makeup of Mobil compared to the other oil previously used. Overkill and I had a big discussion on it... I know some think this shows that Mobil1 causes more wear than other oils, but you also have to remember that by the time a UOA will give you any real data on impending doom, it's likely already just around the corner.

I wouldn't worry too much, but I would do the short OCI to flush out anything that had settled... make sure you take the car for a 20-30 minute drive before you drain the oil, and try to minimize the time after you shut it off to the drain time so that as much as possible is still suspended in the oil.

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005960
02/09/19 04:41 PM
02/09/19 04:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,563
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,563
...
Something else to check is your intake and air filter. Make sure everything is assembled properly and the filter is also fitted properly and in good condition.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5005969
02/09/19 04:55 PM
02/09/19 04:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,750
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,750
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
I dropped that OCI and filled with non-GTL PP 5W20 for two 3k OCIs and drained and changed the filter. Then I did a 7600 mile OCI on PP Euro 0W40 and iron dropped all the way down to 8ppm, and has stayed under double digits ever since in the ensuing 50k miles of service. ............... remember, that Mobil1 has a tendency to "show" higher iron numbers than comparable oils.


I would like to see what Pennz does over the same exact 10,101 mile interval


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005970
02/09/19 04:58 PM
02/09/19 04:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,231
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,231
Mahzurrah!
I'd go to at least a 30 grade for sure, you are getting a lot more fuel dilution than Blackstone says IMO. You can really see it in the viscosity and flash point. And that is unfortunately noticeable in the iron and aluminum both of which are higher than they should be for a highway mile driven Honda. Your TBN is great I'd try another 10k OCI but with a thicker 30 grade and I'd change up brands too. JMO.


2018 VW Passat GT VR6 - 4k - Valvoline MST 5w40 - VW OEM filter
2012 KIA Sedona 95k - PP HM 10w30
2009 Ford Focus 133k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, gone but not forgotten.
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005975
02/09/19 05:03 PM
02/09/19 05:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,856
Buffalo, NY
Nickdfresh Offline
Nickdfresh  Offline

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,856
Buffalo, NY
Hi Astro, I was wondering what you get in fuel economy/mpg with all that highway...

Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Isn't that a spec for turbos? I see that M1 EP 5w-30 meets it, so I may just give it a try.


Mobil 1 0W-20 EP is reportedly very high in PAO, as least as of recently...

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5005993
02/09/19 05:16 PM
02/09/19 05:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,461
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,461
NY
I'd run a good 5W30 synthetic, cut the OCI to 7,500 miles, and check the air intake plumbing. Get a UOA after a 7,500 mile run with the 5W30, and decide if you want to extend the OCI or not. I wouldn't use a 20 grade oil.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006087
02/09/19 06:52 PM
02/09/19 06:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,046
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
Triple_Se7en  Offline

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,046
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
If this is a D.I. and/or with turbo, I would lose all that PAO (which is not a friend of direct inject) and move into a 5w30. Try Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Castrol Edge EP.


2019 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4 factory fill / QS 5w20 conv. / Mahle OEM oil filter
04 Chev Colorado 3.5 QS / Valv syn 5w30 blend K&N filter
03 Chev Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 blend Fram EG filter
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5006130
02/09/19 07:20 PM
02/09/19 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 941
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 941
TX
What exactly is wrong with POA oil in TGDI? I’m running it with pretty good success and excellent UOAs

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006180
02/09/19 07:57 PM
02/09/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 86
Texas, USA
PPWarrior Offline
PPWarrior  Offline

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 86
Texas, USA
Why run oil to the ground? I will stick to my 5k OCIs.

You can't correlate lab tests to real world wear and tear. I am sorry.

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006318
02/09/19 10:21 PM
02/09/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,158
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
double vanos Offline
double vanos  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,158
5600 feet elevation, Arizona
Time for some Castrol Magnatec 5w30! Run it 5k with a Honda filter for a couple rounds then send a sample to Blackstone. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it....


Sabine Schmitz is the Queen of the 'Ring; Svetlana Kapanina is the Queen of the SKIES...
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006319
02/09/19 10:21 PM
02/09/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,528
Maricopa, Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,528
Maricopa, Arizona
Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Originally Posted by Marco620
Nice car. Try a HTO-6 spec 5w30.
Isn't that a spec for turbos? I see that M1 EP 5w-30 meets it, so I may just give it a try.

Originally Posted by dave1251
Boring as Boring can be. You can go further if you like 15K miles easy.
Yes and no. Blackstone attributed the wear numbers on the first round to residual break in. Here we are ten thousand miles later and the numbers are heading in the wrong direction. The Iron is running nearly three times what I had seen in either of the Civics that preceded this car using the same oil and filter.



UOA's do not tell a thing about wear its in PPM you can not even see 29 PPM with a magnifying glass.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: PPWarrior] #5006322
02/09/19 10:22 PM
02/09/19 10:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,528
Maricopa, Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,528
Maricopa, Arizona
Originally Posted by PPWarrior
Why run oil to the ground? I will stick to my 5k OCIs.

You can't correlate lab tests to real world wear and tear. I am sorry.



It's not even close to being ran into the ground. If you believe so studying UOA's for a couple dozen of hours will help you


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: parshisa] #5006339
02/09/19 10:39 PM
02/09/19 10:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,046
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
Triple_Se7en  Offline

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,046
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Originally Posted by parshisa
What exactly is wrong with POA oil in TGDI? I’m running it with pretty good success and excellent UOAs

?
Latest reports say Group 2 and maybe Group 5?, may be better for LSPI / DI / Turbos. Then Group 3.... Last is Group 4 (PAO).
Info is in a couple threads here in the past month. Not sure exactly where.

If your engine is unaffected, then disregard my mention.

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 02/09/19 10:47 PM.

2019 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4 factory fill / QS 5w20 conv. / Mahle OEM oil filter
04 Chev Colorado 3.5 QS / Valv syn 5w30 blend K&N filter
03 Chev Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 blend Fram EG filter
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5006344
02/09/19 10:47 PM
02/09/19 10:47 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 941
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 941
TX
My engine is TGDI, low displacement. I ran loaded with calcium oil with 0 ill effects. Not the oil is the greatest contibutor to LSPI. Drive it as it should be driven and nothing will happen

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: parshisa] #5006348
02/09/19 10:52 PM
02/09/19 10:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,046
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
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1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
You seem to have the answer. You should tell exactly that to the engineers testing all this stuff..... which by-the-way, still dont have any final answers.

They claim the affected engines resist best on Group 2.
I don't know anything about that low, medium or high displacement stuff. It's all French to me.


2019 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4 factory fill / QS 5w20 conv. / Mahle OEM oil filter
04 Chev Colorado 3.5 QS / Valv syn 5w30 blend K&N filter
03 Chev Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 blend Fram EG filter
Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006710
02/10/19 10:52 AM
02/10/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Astro_Guy Online content OP
Astro_Guy  Online Content OP

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Posts: 551
Pennsylvania
Getting back to the original point, the trend on Iron doesn't look good:

  • Miles on oil: 10,101 / 9,240 (+9%)
  • Iron: 29 / 16 (+81%)

I've been reading up on the K24W engine, and fuel dilution seems to be a recurring problem. The plan going forward is to drop this oil and filter at 6000 miles, send another sample for analysis, and replace it with 5w-30 M1EP and a new XG7317. I'll make a decision on the length of the next OCI based upon what the next lab report says, but somehow I don't envision this vehicle as being good for more than an 8000 mile OCI. Time will tell I guess.

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006921
02/10/19 02:12 PM
02/10/19 02:12 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,278
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

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The land of USA-made Subies!
Astro... even though Dave1251 and I said similar things in different ways, I don't think you're getting it.

1. UOAs can ONLY look at particles <3 microns due to limitations of ICP testing.
2. Wear particles of any significance to your engine are WAY larger than 3 microns.
3. Wear particles big enough to be seen will end up in your filter, NOT in your UOA sample.
4. UOAs as used by nearly all "hobbyists" like here on the board are generally only useful for telling you whether or not a given oil is able to deal with your usage and mileage run, NOT how your engine is wearing while using that oil. If you want to have a much better idea of that, you need to look at different testing methods- filter wash analysis, analytical ferrography, etc... and those tests are all exceedingly cost prohibitive for a $20 oil change.
5. The chemical makeup of the oil can and will skew the UOA "wear metals" portion of the test, especially if you keep changing brands!- different chemistries can "chelate" left over deposits in your engine, making it appear you suddenly have a big jump in wear while nothing is actually going on. This is why there are guidelines for interpreting: a single data point means NOTHING in and of itself; and, changing oils and then retesting on that OCI makes the results of dubious value.

What does this mean? When you buy a car, change the oil with your intended use oil, and drive an OCI on it. Drain it and refill, and drive another OCI. Now if you want a UOA, you can test this fill and any going forward as long as you use the same brand and weight of oil. If you change brands or even weights, it skews the UOA some because of the leftover oil in the galleys and sump, and doesn't tell you much.

Back to the "chelating" effect- some oils seem to pull different metals out of the varnish/sludge/deposits left behind from other oils- Mobil1 seems to chelate iron, Pennz Platinum seems to chelate copper, and there are some others- what this means is when you switch to that oil and see a big jump in one certain wear metal, it almost certainly DOES NOT mean you suddenly have a near-catastrophic event going on in your engine! You need at least 3 oil analyses to identify a trend, and so that you don't severely skew your data and cloud the issue, I would keep using the same brand and weight of oil you did the first time, and maybe just shorten the OCI by 2-3k for the next two changes. Then, make the decision if you need to go up in weight or class.

Re: Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 10,101 Miles 2016 Accord [Re: Astro_Guy] #5006998
02/10/19 02:56 PM
02/10/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,563
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

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Posts: 7,563
...
Excellent comment by SubieRubyRoo.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
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