Man loses case about new tires he said were too old: https://www.citizensvoice.com/news/mountain-top-man-loses-tire-case-1.2443410
Interesting.
Interesting.
"New" tire age court case
- Thread starter faramir9
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Too bad if the guy was sold 3-year-old tires -he got hosed.
Its not enough to buy new tires- you have to buy new FRESH tires and if you don't ask the question- you are the huckleberry.
RVers are the guys that get burned the most here.
UD
Its not enough to buy new tires- you have to buy new FRESH tires and if you don't ask the question- you are the huckleberry.
RVers are the guys that get burned the most here.
UD
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If you don't check the dates codes when buying new tires you are an idiot. That's like buying groceries and not checking expiry dates.
Puts the effort and expense into taking them to court but didn't check the date codes. Litigious society = pay me punitive damages for being careless.
Puts the effort and expense into taking them to court but didn't check the date codes. Litigious society = pay me punitive damages for being careless.
I would bet 90% of the population has no idea that tires have date codes or expiry dates. Industry needs to self regulate this aspect of tire sales. Reduce the prices as they age and their roadworthy life get reduced. If they are hanging their hat on mileage warranties and tires have a lifecycle time, they should be prorated the same.
My last two sets of new tires were over two years old. Capri has told us that new tires don't really age if they are properly stored in a warehouse, which is normally the case. Therefore, I would disagree with the gentleman and others that believe he may have gotten hosed.
In addition from the linked article, the gentleman said "he's hoping to spread the word to others about the dangers of running tires more than six years after their manufacture date." This has been discussed in many threads here and the consensus is that it depends on a number of fractures as to the service life of an automobile tire, with age being one of them.
In addition from the linked article, the gentleman said "he's hoping to spread the word to others about the dangers of running tires more than six years after their manufacture date." This has been discussed in many threads here and the consensus is that it depends on a number of fractures as to the service life of an automobile tire, with age being one of them.
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Originally Posted by tcp71
I would bet 90% of the population has no idea that tires have date codes or expiry dates. .
Truth. More like 98%. And in the climate of much of the US age isn't a big consideration whether a tire is safe or not.
I would bet 90% of the population has no idea that tires have date codes or expiry dates. .
Truth. More like 98%. And in the climate of much of the US age isn't a big consideration whether a tire is safe or not.
Originally Posted by Cressida
Capri has told us that new tires don't really age if they are properly stored in a warehouse, which is normally the case.
i have purchased and successfully run retreads that the casings were much older.
A LOT depends on how the tire is used after being mounted. I've never really suspected them of aging poorly in a proper warehouse.
Capri has told us that new tires don't really age if they are properly stored in a warehouse, which is normally the case.
i have purchased and successfully run retreads that the casings were much older.
A LOT depends on how the tire is used after being mounted. I've never really suspected them of aging poorly in a proper warehouse.
Originally Posted by tcp71
I would bet 90% of the population has no idea that tires have date codes or expiry dates. Industry needs to self regulate this aspect of tire sales. Reduce the prices as they age and their roadworthy life get reduced. If they are hanging their hat on mileage warranties and tires have a lifecycle time, they should be prorated the same.
Checking date codes is pretty much #1 in any mainstream article about buying tires. If they discounted slightly old new tires, tires would become much more expensive to warehouse and sell. Tires would become much more expensive due to pearl clutching over four month old brand new tires.
Originally Posted by Cressida
This has been discussed in many threads here and the consensus is that it depends on a number of fractures as to the service life of an automobile tire, with age being one of them.
The general consensus here is that if you have tires over six years old, you are morally inferior to those who don't. Also, your tires will explode the second you reach highway speeds and your family will be immolated. There was a recent thread that tested old, worn snow tires vs new and found that the performance drop off was like 5-10%. Not too many posts in that thread.
I would bet 90% of the population has no idea that tires have date codes or expiry dates. Industry needs to self regulate this aspect of tire sales. Reduce the prices as they age and their roadworthy life get reduced. If they are hanging their hat on mileage warranties and tires have a lifecycle time, they should be prorated the same.
Checking date codes is pretty much #1 in any mainstream article about buying tires. If they discounted slightly old new tires, tires would become much more expensive to warehouse and sell. Tires would become much more expensive due to pearl clutching over four month old brand new tires.
Originally Posted by Cressida
This has been discussed in many threads here and the consensus is that it depends on a number of fractures as to the service life of an automobile tire, with age being one of them.
The general consensus here is that if you have tires over six years old, you are morally inferior to those who don't. Also, your tires will explode the second you reach highway speeds and your family will be immolated. There was a recent thread that tested old, worn snow tires vs new and found that the performance drop off was like 5-10%. Not too many posts in that thread.
Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by Reddy45
It doesn't say why the judge declined the suit ???
Maybe because he had no damages?
That would be my guess.
First, I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that for a case to go forward, the plaintiff has to have some sort of damage - something that caused him tangible harm. Since the only issue on the table was refunding the guys money, the plaintiff would need to prove that what he was sold was deficient in some way - and that leads me too where my expertise comes in.
It is a commonly held BELIEF within the tire industry that properly stored tires can be sold as new for up to 6 years AFTER the date of production. I emphasized the word belief because I do not think there is any data on the subject - meaning nothing one way or the other.
- BUT -
I know there used to be data that indicates that properly stored tires up to 3 years after production perform the same freshly made tires - and that data was held by a major tire manufacturer.
Further, a look at most tire warranties says that the warranty starts at the date for SALE, and the date of manufacture only applies if the date of sale is not known. That right there seems to refute the plaintiff's assertion.
There are a lot of OPINIONS out there about tire age and you can get some Daubert qualified experts to testify to a whole range of answers regarding tire age - include this one! (Side note: Daubert refers to a court case where the issue of who is, and who is not, an expert was decided.)
Perhaps the best statement to date on tire age is this one from the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturers Association - the folks that manufacture tires in the US):
Originally Posted by USTMA
Tire Service Life is Not Determined by Chronological Age - Tires are composed of various materials, including rubber, having performance properties essential to the proper functioning of the tire. These component properties evolve over a combination of time, service and storage conditions. For each individual tire, this change is affected by many elements such as temperature, storage conditions, and conditions of use (e.g., load, speed, inflation pressure, impacts and road hazard injury) to which a tire is subjected throughout its life. Since service and storage conditions vary widely, accurately predicting the service life of any specific tire based on calendar age is not possible. USTMA is not aware of scientific or technical data that establishes or identifies a specific minimum or maximum service life for passenger and light truck tires. However, in some cases a tire or vehicle manufacturer may make a specific tire replacement recommendation regarding its products. If so, the consumer should consult the manufacturer with any questions with regard to following the recommendation. Furthermore, any such recommendation should not be considered a minimum service life for the tire.
Originally Posted by Reddy45
It doesn't say why the judge declined the suit ???
Maybe because he had no damages?
That would be my guess.
First, I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that for a case to go forward, the plaintiff has to have some sort of damage - something that caused him tangible harm. Since the only issue on the table was refunding the guys money, the plaintiff would need to prove that what he was sold was deficient in some way - and that leads me too where my expertise comes in.
It is a commonly held BELIEF within the tire industry that properly stored tires can be sold as new for up to 6 years AFTER the date of production. I emphasized the word belief because I do not think there is any data on the subject - meaning nothing one way or the other.
- BUT -
I know there used to be data that indicates that properly stored tires up to 3 years after production perform the same freshly made tires - and that data was held by a major tire manufacturer.
Further, a look at most tire warranties says that the warranty starts at the date for SALE, and the date of manufacture only applies if the date of sale is not known. That right there seems to refute the plaintiff's assertion.
There are a lot of OPINIONS out there about tire age and you can get some Daubert qualified experts to testify to a whole range of answers regarding tire age - include this one! (Side note: Daubert refers to a court case where the issue of who is, and who is not, an expert was decided.)
Perhaps the best statement to date on tire age is this one from the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturers Association - the folks that manufacture tires in the US):
Originally Posted by USTMA
Tire Service Life is Not Determined by Chronological Age - Tires are composed of various materials, including rubber, having performance properties essential to the proper functioning of the tire. These component properties evolve over a combination of time, service and storage conditions. For each individual tire, this change is affected by many elements such as temperature, storage conditions, and conditions of use (e.g., load, speed, inflation pressure, impacts and road hazard injury) to which a tire is subjected throughout its life. Since service and storage conditions vary widely, accurately predicting the service life of any specific tire based on calendar age is not possible. USTMA is not aware of scientific or technical data that establishes or identifies a specific minimum or maximum service life for passenger and light truck tires. However, in some cases a tire or vehicle manufacturer may make a specific tire replacement recommendation regarding its products. If so, the consumer should consult the manufacturer with any questions with regard to following the recommendation. Furthermore, any such recommendation should not be considered a minimum service life for the tire.
Quote
It is a commonly held BELIEF within the tire industry that properly stored tires can be sold as new for up to 6 years AFTER the date of production.
May I ask, what constitutes proper storage conditions, aside from the obvious avoidance of extremes of temperature and sunlight exposure?
Does the tire have to be in the factory cladding all this time? I have seen new tires being sold as bare without any of its factory protective wrapping whatsoever.
It is a commonly held BELIEF within the tire industry that properly stored tires can be sold as new for up to 6 years AFTER the date of production.
May I ask, what constitutes proper storage conditions, aside from the obvious avoidance of extremes of temperature and sunlight exposure?
Does the tire have to be in the factory cladding all this time? I have seen new tires being sold as bare without any of its factory protective wrapping whatsoever.
Originally Posted by Leo99
Originally Posted by Reddy45
It doesn't say why the judge declined the suit ???
Maybe because he had no damages?
Originally Posted by Reddy45
It doesn't say why the judge declined the suit ???
My guess is that the plaintiff had no grounds because age of the product does not fall within the legal definition of "new". Perhaps "new" is defined as the initial sale to the end consumer.
Originally Posted by Reddy45
It doesn't say why the judge declined the suit ???
Maybe because he had no damages?
Originally Posted by Reddy45
It doesn't say why the judge declined the suit ???
My guess is that the plaintiff had no grounds because age of the product does not fall within the legal definition of "new". Perhaps "new" is defined as the initial sale to the end consumer.
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Originally Posted by berniedd
Quote
It is a commonly held BELIEF within the tire industry that properly stored tires can be sold as new for up to 6 years AFTER the date of production.
May I ask, what constitutes proper storage conditions, aside from the obvious avoidance of extremes of temperature and sunlight exposure? …
Here's a link to what the USTMA says about storage: USTMA TISB #23: Tire Storage
Short version: In addition to the 2 items already mentioned, ventilation, areas free from ozone making equipment (such as electric motors) and distortion are included.
Originally Posted by berniedd
…….Does the tire have to be in the factory cladding all this time? I have seen new tires being sold as bare without any of its factory protective wrapping whatsoever.
I'm confused by the words "factory cladding" because, to my knowledge, no one is covering the tires with anything special - except for some specific OEM's that require tires to be shipped bundled (sometimes in shrinkwrap) with 4 or 5 tires (depending or whether the vehicle takes a spare or not) in a bundle - but that is not for the purposes of protecting the tires from the elements. In other words, no one is using a protective wrapping. It should be noted that waxes are put in the rubber to serve as a protective barrier.
Quote
It is a commonly held BELIEF within the tire industry that properly stored tires can be sold as new for up to 6 years AFTER the date of production.
May I ask, what constitutes proper storage conditions, aside from the obvious avoidance of extremes of temperature and sunlight exposure? …
Here's a link to what the USTMA says about storage: USTMA TISB #23: Tire Storage
Short version: In addition to the 2 items already mentioned, ventilation, areas free from ozone making equipment (such as electric motors) and distortion are included.
Originally Posted by berniedd
…….Does the tire have to be in the factory cladding all this time? I have seen new tires being sold as bare without any of its factory protective wrapping whatsoever.
I'm confused by the words "factory cladding" because, to my knowledge, no one is covering the tires with anything special - except for some specific OEM's that require tires to be shipped bundled (sometimes in shrinkwrap) with 4 or 5 tires (depending or whether the vehicle takes a spare or not) in a bundle - but that is not for the purposes of protecting the tires from the elements. In other words, no one is using a protective wrapping. It should be noted that waxes are put in the rubber to serve as a protective barrier.
Quote
I'm confused by the words "factory cladding" because, to my knowledge, no one is covering the tires with anything special - except for some specific OEM's that require tires to be shipped bundled (sometimes in shrinkwrap) with 4 or 5 tires (depending or whether the vehicle takes a spare or not) in a bundle - but that is not for the purposes of protecting the tires from the elements. In other words, no one is using a protective wrapping. It should be noted that waxes are put in the rubber to serve as a protective barrier.
It was quite some time ago, but I remember seeing many new tires way back then individually wrapped in some kind of aluminum foil-like tape.
I'm confused by the words "factory cladding" because, to my knowledge, no one is covering the tires with anything special - except for some specific OEM's that require tires to be shipped bundled (sometimes in shrinkwrap) with 4 or 5 tires (depending or whether the vehicle takes a spare or not) in a bundle - but that is not for the purposes of protecting the tires from the elements. In other words, no one is using a protective wrapping. It should be noted that waxes are put in the rubber to serve as a protective barrier.
It was quite some time ago, but I remember seeing many new tires way back then individually wrapped in some kind of aluminum foil-like tape.
Originally Posted by berniedd
Quote
I'm confused by the words "factory cladding" because, to my knowledge, no one is covering the tires with anything special - except for some specific OEM's that require tires to be shipped bundled (sometimes in shrinkwrap) with 4 or 5 tires (depending or whether the vehicle takes a spare or not) in a bundle - but that is not for the purposes of protecting the tires from the elements. In other words, no one is using a protective wrapping. It should be noted that waxes are put in the rubber to serve as a protective barrier.
It was quite some time ago, but I remember seeing many new tires way back then individually wrapped in some kind of aluminum foil-like tape.
I do recall some tire manufacturers trying to upgrade things by applying a tape spirally wound around the tire. My best guess is that was the early 1990's and the tape was some sort of crinkly heavy paper, like oiled paper. But that was such a pain for tire dealers, it was quickly discontinued. My recollections go back to the early 1970's.
But way back when - say the 1930's - I think there may have been tires similarly wrapped, but I suspect that was more for dirt than protection against the elements.
I did a quick look in Google Images and saw a few photos of wrapped tires with references to the Middle East. Maybe there is something going on there?
Quote
I'm confused by the words "factory cladding" because, to my knowledge, no one is covering the tires with anything special - except for some specific OEM's that require tires to be shipped bundled (sometimes in shrinkwrap) with 4 or 5 tires (depending or whether the vehicle takes a spare or not) in a bundle - but that is not for the purposes of protecting the tires from the elements. In other words, no one is using a protective wrapping. It should be noted that waxes are put in the rubber to serve as a protective barrier.
It was quite some time ago, but I remember seeing many new tires way back then individually wrapped in some kind of aluminum foil-like tape.
I do recall some tire manufacturers trying to upgrade things by applying a tape spirally wound around the tire. My best guess is that was the early 1990's and the tape was some sort of crinkly heavy paper, like oiled paper. But that was such a pain for tire dealers, it was quickly discontinued. My recollections go back to the early 1970's.
But way back when - say the 1930's - I think there may have been tires similarly wrapped, but I suspect that was more for dirt than protection against the elements.
I did a quick look in Google Images and saw a few photos of wrapped tires with references to the Middle East. Maybe there is something going on there?
Tire dealers have sold "new" tires that were as old as 9+ years.....older? Suspect storage condition of 9 year-old "new" tires aren't good either. All the posters here, screaming "buyer beware", use that adage as an excuse not to care. & the judge uses his own excuses not to care. america, land of the "freedom from caring" & the brave (until some consumer item fails in their hands).
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