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Re: thin oil [Re: Snagglefoot] #4999151
02/02/19 08:39 AM
02/02/19 08:39 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,252
out there
spasm3 Offline
spasm3  Offline

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,252
out there
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie’s heads explode.


But there is a difference before 100c. If the add packs need heat to work ( mixed and boundary), all you have is viscosity protecting the surfaces during the warmup phase.


13 elantra 78k 5w30 synpwr
03 chevy avalanche 83k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 12300 miles m1 0w30
Re: thin oil [Re: jacobsond] #4999200
02/02/19 09:26 AM
02/02/19 09:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,355
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
Triple_Se7en  Offline

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,355
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
My vehicles sound better & less consumption (all 4 seasons here in Michigan) using 9-13 cst. That generally means 0/5W30/40, depending on season. I won't include 5w20, nor 5w40 for my applications. I quit using 10w30 in the 1990s. Too old-school for todays modern engines. I'd rather consume an extra quart between oil changes, than feed it 10w30 oils.

Hyundai would need to inform me that using 10w30 lowers carbon levels and aids in LSPI, with my D.I. 2.4 engine. Otherwise No Siree!


19 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4GDI Castrol Edge 5w30 / NAPA Mann-Hummel filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly Treatment
04 Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 Euro & K&N filter
03 Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 mix Fram EG filter
Re: thin oil [Re: StevieC] #4999275
02/02/19 10:52 AM
02/02/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,236
Illinois
tig1 Offline
tig1  Offline

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,236
Illinois
Originally Posted by StevieC
If that truck isn't rated for 20wt oil you are gambling with that engine's life. Especially in warmer weather.


I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round. One member here (Fsskier) put 300K on a mid 90's Ford Escort with M1 0-20 that called for 5-30.


2007 Ford Fusion 244,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 73K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: thin oil [Re: Shannow] #4999282
02/02/19 10:58 AM
02/02/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,394
GA.
ChrisD46 Offline
ChrisD46  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,394
GA.
*How about a HTHS of 2.7 at 100° C. versus an HTHS of 3.0 ~ 3.5 at 100° C for boundary layer / film strength of the oil and critical metal surfaces ?
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie’s heads explode.


Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.

Is math your strong point ???

Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W30 Valvoline Advanced Syn / Fram Ultra
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 QSUD / Fram Ultra
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 M1 EP HM / Fram Ultra
Re: thin oil [Re: tig1] #4999289
02/02/19 11:04 AM
02/02/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by StevieC
If that truck isn't rated for 20wt oil you are gambling with that engine's life. Especially in warmer weather.


I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round. One member here (Fsskier) put 300K on a mid 90's Ford Escort with M1 0-20 that called for 5-30.

Key word "gambling" you guys got the blank spots in the the Russian roulette gun.

Further you know I'm fine with thinner oils where they are spec'ed.

Last edited by StevieC; 02/02/19 11:05 AM.

'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: thin oil [Re: jacobsond] #4999451
02/02/19 01:12 PM
02/02/19 01:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 566
Fort Worth
Pinoak Offline
Pinoak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 566
Fort Worth
Originally Posted by jacobsond
0w20 supertech in my 2001 Dakota with the 4.7. -15F and colder. Starts up just like summertime. Oil pressure no difference between the spec 5w30. Take that you thickies I dont think its going to hurt the 4.7 at all. I am an old man and drive like one also

5w30 isn't a thick oil.
I would draw the line there personally. Can't see a necessary use for xw20, ever. It's like putting liability insurance on your brand new Corvette. Just less protection.
Anyway 5w30 is fine for even the Dakotas or Minnesota even.

Re: thin oil [Re: jacobsond] #4999456
02/02/19 01:24 PM
02/02/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
With the polar vortex being forced thousands of miles South to enable extreme weather events, why should anyone "hate" on 0W oils? This is the ONLY TIME they're realistically and practically the most appropriate grade to use, legal and regulatory requirements notwithstanding.

That's right.... now with -35C temperatures, not 0C, or 25C Florida weather..... only now wink


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: thin oil [Re: jacobsond] #4999462
02/02/19 01:29 PM
02/02/19 01:29 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 166
Monroe, WA
KevinP Offline
KevinP  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 166
Monroe, WA
I have been using 5W-20 for years and I kept going through engines. I had to replace them every other year!

Now that I run 5W-40 in all my engines I've stopped having to replace them.

BTW.... this is all sarcasm. I know it is just circumstantial but there are millions of vehicles running 0W-20 oils and soon to be 0W-16 oils and I don't see them coming off the road because of engine lubrication failures.

Obsess over what you want but I'll continue to run my 0W-20 year round.

Re: thin oil [Re: jacobsond] #4999467
02/02/19 01:35 PM
02/02/19 01:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?

>inb4 warranty


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: thin oil [Re: PeterPolyol] #4999473
02/02/19 01:40 PM
02/02/19 01:40 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 166
Monroe, WA
KevinP Offline
KevinP  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 166
Monroe, WA
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?

>inb4 warranty



Ha.... actually I run both. I just bought a hybrid last year and it will blow-up if I put 5W-20 in it! LOL...

Re: thin oil [Re: PeterPolyol] #4999505
02/02/19 02:15 PM
02/02/19 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,355
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Triple_Se7en Offline
Triple_Se7en  Offline

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,355
1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?


Miss out on?
PAO....... MORE Group-IV in them-there 0W-20 jugs. Most times, lots more PAO.


19 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4GDI Castrol Edge 5w30 / NAPA Mann-Hummel filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly Treatment
04 Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 Euro & K&N filter
03 Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 mix Fram EG filter
Re: thin oil [Re: KevinP] #4999536
02/02/19 02:52 PM
02/02/19 02:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,291
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,291
PNW
Originally Posted by KevinP
BTW.... this is all sarcasm. I know it is just circumstantial but there are millions of vehicles running 0W-20 oils and soon to be 0W-16 oils and I don't see them coming off the road because of engine lubrication failures.


It's not a matter of "coming off the road" or "filling up the junkyards". It's about the relationship between viscosity and engine protection.

0W-16 oils better have a lot of anti-wear additives to make up what's lost from less viscosity.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...engine-wear-test-development#Post4781847

Re: thin oil [Re: Triple_Se7en] #4999618
02/02/19 04:40 PM
02/02/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?


Miss out on?
PAO....... MORE Group-IV in them-there 0W-20 jugs. Most times, lots more PAO.


PAO is fine, not as much of it is used in OTC formulations as we'd like to think, and they're there as they are required to meet MINIMUM oxidation stability requirements in wide spread grades, not to offer you a better value or make it perform any better than say GrII Delo 15W30 in any regard other than cold cranking. In terms of wear protection and deposit control, I'd put my money on the GrII Delo TBQH

So, yes you can take the finest (in specific areas) base oils and load them up with junk VIIs to meet viscosity and you're left with a middling oil with middling oxidation and middling volatility.... with expensive base. I see no value in that.


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: thin oil [Re: tig1] #4999695
02/02/19 06:01 PM
02/02/19 06:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,175
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,175
'Stralia
Originally Posted by tig1
I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round.


:sigh:...and as we've been over this ad-nauseum, the early M1 5W20 was VII free, and all done with basestocks.

So it was like saying that you were running redline 5W20, with the HTHS of an ILSAC 30, in an era that the 10W40s fell apart in 500 miles.

Again, and I'm probably not exaggerating that this is our 50th time at this dance....

Last edited by Shannow; 02/02/19 06:11 PM.

If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: thin oil [Re: Snagglefoot] #4999704
02/02/19 06:10 PM
02/02/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,175
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,175
'Stralia
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie’s heads explode.


Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.

Is math your strong point ???

Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.


Yep, maybe 8 vs 16, but not 600 vs 3000 cst. The engines run fine with 8, 10, 12, 16 cst. Very little difference. Anyone notice that?


Engines are designed around the design point, which is around the 100C mark (or 150C commonly in the bearings, NOT at the cold start point.

So, YES there is a marked difference between 8, 10, 12, and 16.

So we now understand that it's BOTH math and logic that you struggle with.

Here's a representation of MOFT versus HTHS for a given test engine...pick 2.6 versus 4.1...SEE THERE's a DIFFERENCE...at operating temperature...at the design point

moft hths line.jpg

If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
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