thin oil
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Originally Posted by rideahorse
If thin oil is so perfect. Then why don't they just make a straight 0w oil. BECAUSE it is not as good. It sacrifices the longevity of the motor.
A bit of extreme statement.
If thin oil is so perfect. Then why don't they just make a straight 0w oil. BECAUSE it is not as good. It sacrifices the longevity of the motor.
A bit of extreme statement.
Originally Posted by Whimsey
While -7F is not "cold" compared to lots of the country, it's cold for us. With Mobil 1 5W-30 our 2017 2.3EB Explorer started right up without any difference compared to summer. Maybe the "synthetic" of the same viscosity as conventional or synblend does start easier in real cold temps.
Whimsey
The M1 0W-20 EP currently in the sump of mine is not all that far (maybe .1?) in HTHSV from the factory installed (and recced for everything/all conditions) Motorcraft 5W-20.
So even though the M1 does not carry the 945-A spec, I figure it is A OK to run in the winter for my app, especially being a majority PAO based oil (whereas their 5W-20 EP is NOT).
It started right up in -5*F temps, with less cranking time from the starter than the (ALSO NOT 945-A meeting) Ravenol DXG 5W-30 does in the summer/fall.
While -7F is not "cold" compared to lots of the country, it's cold for us. With Mobil 1 5W-30 our 2017 2.3EB Explorer started right up without any difference compared to summer. Maybe the "synthetic" of the same viscosity as conventional or synblend does start easier in real cold temps.
Whimsey
The M1 0W-20 EP currently in the sump of mine is not all that far (maybe .1?) in HTHSV from the factory installed (and recced for everything/all conditions) Motorcraft 5W-20.
So even though the M1 does not carry the 945-A spec, I figure it is A OK to run in the winter for my app, especially being a majority PAO based oil (whereas their 5W-20 EP is NOT).
It started right up in -5*F temps, with less cranking time from the starter than the (ALSO NOT 945-A meeting) Ravenol DXG 5W-30 does in the summer/fall.
The graph shown above is both a bit misleading but also is a revelation. At low temps oils are 100's of times thicker as measured in centistokes. (cst). We've all see those cool videos showing the different oils pouring out of funnels and noticing how some pour faster than others. Also we tend to observe these oils at room temperature or colder and can physically see the difference. However, the engine takes just minutes to heat up from ambient to around 100 degrees C and then the temperature is largely a function of rpm and an oil cooler system if it is so equipped.
Now notice how all the viscosities converge. The difference is very small between them at 100 C. If you want, heat up your different motor oils to 100 C and pour them through funnels. You would not be able to notice a difference with your naked eye. That is why all these arguments of viscosities are so ridiculous. The engines tend to run just fine regardless of the oil weight you use. That is because in a relative sense there is very little difference at 100 C, the temperature that most engines function at. Ford knows this. They have been advocating 5w20 or 0w20 for almost 20 years. Those engines are doing fine. Really don't care if it's for CAFE or not. There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Now notice how all the viscosities converge. The difference is very small between them at 100 C. If you want, heat up your different motor oils to 100 C and pour them through funnels. You would not be able to notice a difference with your naked eye. That is why all these arguments of viscosities are so ridiculous. The engines tend to run just fine regardless of the oil weight you use. That is because in a relative sense there is very little difference at 100 C, the temperature that most engines function at. Ford knows this. They have been advocating 5w20 or 0w20 for almost 20 years. Those engines are doing fine. Really don't care if it's for CAFE or not. There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
The graph shown above is both a bit misleading but also is a revelation. At low temps oils are 100's of times thicker as measured in centistokes. (cst). We've all see those cool videos showing the different oils poring out of funnels and noticing how some pour faster than others. Also we tend to observe these oils at room temperature or colder and can physically see the difference. However, the engine takes just minutes to heat up from ambient to around 100 degrees C and then the temperature is largely a function of rpm and an oil cooler system if it is so equipped.
Now notice how all the viscosities converge. The difference is very small between them at 100 C. If you want, heat up your different motor oils to 100 C and pour them through funnels. You would not be able to notice a difference with your naked eye. That is why all these arguments of viscosities are so ridiculous. The engines tent to run just fine regardless of the oil weight you use. That is because in a relative sense there is very little difference at 100 C, the temperature that most engines function at 100C
We can't forget about the HT/HS and MOFT as temp increases.
The graph shown above is both a bit misleading but also is a revelation. At low temps oils are 100's of times thicker as measured in centistokes. (cst). We've all see those cool videos showing the different oils poring out of funnels and noticing how some pour faster than others. Also we tend to observe these oils at room temperature or colder and can physically see the difference. However, the engine takes just minutes to heat up from ambient to around 100 degrees C and then the temperature is largely a function of rpm and an oil cooler system if it is so equipped.
Now notice how all the viscosities converge. The difference is very small between them at 100 C. If you want, heat up your different motor oils to 100 C and pour them through funnels. You would not be able to notice a difference with your naked eye. That is why all these arguments of viscosities are so ridiculous. The engines tent to run just fine regardless of the oil weight you use. That is because in a relative sense there is very little difference at 100 C, the temperature that most engines function at 100C
We can't forget about the HT/HS and MOFT as temp increases.
Originally Posted by jacobsond
0w20 supertech in my 2001 Dakota with the 4.7. -15F and colder. Starts up just like summertime. Oil pressure no difference between the spec 5w30. Take that you thickies I dont think its going to hurt the 4.7 at all. I am an old man and drive like one also
If you use that water in the summer, your car may end up in the junkyard next to the others using the same oil
then you will have to buy a new car which comes with 6 months free memberships to XM, AAA and thickies club
0w20 supertech in my 2001 Dakota with the 4.7. -15F and colder. Starts up just like summertime. Oil pressure no difference between the spec 5w30. Take that you thickies I dont think its going to hurt the 4.7 at all. I am an old man and drive like one also
If you use that water in the summer, your car may end up in the junkyard next to the others using the same oil
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.
Is math your strong point ???
Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.
Is math your strong point ???
Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.
graph on page 1 is scaled accordingly to aid the given presentation ... and was not intended to demo the cSt differences at higher (100°C) temperatures!
It can be misleading if you just look at the graph and not pay attention to the scale.
At 100°C with scale of 1000, all cSt seems to be identical and we all know that can't be the case. May need a graph with scale of 10 or 20 for that.
Also as mentioned, there is no hths data.
It can be misleading if you just look at the graph and not pay attention to the scale.
At 100°C with scale of 1000, all cSt seems to be identical and we all know that can't be the case. May need a graph with scale of 10 or 20 for that.
Also as mentioned, there is no hths data.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.
Is math your strong point ???
Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.
Yep, maybe 8 vs 16, but not 600 vs 3000 cst. The engines run fine with 8, 10, 12, 16 cst. Very little difference. Anyone notice that?
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.
Is math your strong point ???
Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.
Yep, maybe 8 vs 16, but not 600 vs 3000 cst. The engines run fine with 8, 10, 12, 16 cst. Very little difference. Anyone notice that?
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
But there is a difference before 100c. If the add packs need heat to work ( mixed and boundary), all you have is viscosity protecting the surfaces during the warmup phase.
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
But there is a difference before 100c. If the add packs need heat to work ( mixed and boundary), all you have is viscosity protecting the surfaces during the warmup phase.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
My vehicles sound better & less consumption (all 4 seasons here in Michigan) using 9-13 cst. That generally means 0/5W30/40, depending on season. I won't include 5w20, nor 5w40 for my applications. I quit using 10w30 in the 1990s. Too old-school for todays modern engines. I'd rather consume an extra quart between oil changes, than feed it 10w30 oils.
Hyundai would need to inform me that using 10w30 lowers carbon levels and aids in LSPI, with my D.I. 2.4 engine. Otherwise No Siree!
Hyundai would need to inform me that using 10w30 lowers carbon levels and aids in LSPI, with my D.I. 2.4 engine. Otherwise No Siree!
Originally Posted by StevieC
If that truck isn't rated for 20wt oil you are gambling with that engine's life. Especially in warmer weather.
I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round. One member here (Fsskier) put 300K on a mid 90's Ford Escort with M1 0-20 that called for 5-30.
If that truck isn't rated for 20wt oil you are gambling with that engine's life. Especially in warmer weather.
I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round. One member here (Fsskier) put 300K on a mid 90's Ford Escort with M1 0-20 that called for 5-30.
*How about a HTHS of 2.7 at 100° C. versus an HTHS of 3.0 ~ 3.5 at 100° C for boundary layer / film strength of the oil and critical metal surfaces ?
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.
Is math your strong point ???
Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is very little viscosity difference between a 20 weight oil and a 40 weight oil at 100 C. Now watch the thickie's heads explode.
Only about 50% in KV100 and 40% in HTHS.
Is math your strong point ???
Because logic certainly isn't unfortunately.
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by StevieC
If that truck isn't rated for 20wt oil you are gambling with that engine's life. Especially in warmer weather.
I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round. One member here (Fsskier) put 300K on a mid 90's Ford Escort with M1 0-20 that called for 5-30.
Key word "gambling" you guys got the blank spots in the the Russian roulette gun.
Further you know I'm fine with thinner oils where they are spec'ed.
Originally Posted by StevieC
If that truck isn't rated for 20wt oil you are gambling with that engine's life. Especially in warmer weather.
I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in a Dodge Slant 6 with no problems at all, year round. One member here (Fsskier) put 300K on a mid 90's Ford Escort with M1 0-20 that called for 5-30.
Key word "gambling" you guys got the blank spots in the the Russian roulette gun.
Further you know I'm fine with thinner oils where they are spec'ed.
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Originally Posted by jacobsond
0w20 supertech in my 2001 Dakota with the 4.7. -15F and colder. Starts up just like summertime. Oil pressure no difference between the spec 5w30. Take that you thickies I dont think its going to hurt the 4.7 at all. I am an old man and drive like one also
5w30 isn't a thick oil.
I would draw the line there personally. Can't see a necessary use for xw20, ever. It's like putting liability insurance on your brand new Corvette. Just less protection.
Anyway 5w30 is fine for even the Dakotas or Minnesota even.
0w20 supertech in my 2001 Dakota with the 4.7. -15F and colder. Starts up just like summertime. Oil pressure no difference between the spec 5w30. Take that you thickies I dont think its going to hurt the 4.7 at all. I am an old man and drive like one also
5w30 isn't a thick oil.
I would draw the line there personally. Can't see a necessary use for xw20, ever. It's like putting liability insurance on your brand new Corvette. Just less protection.
Anyway 5w30 is fine for even the Dakotas or Minnesota even.
With the polar vortex being forced thousands of miles South to enable extreme weather events, why should anyone "hate" on 0W oils? This is the ONLY TIME they're realistically and practically the most appropriate grade to use, legal and regulatory requirements notwithstanding.
That's right.... now with -35C temperatures, not 0C, or 25C Florida weather..... only now
That's right.... now with -35C temperatures, not 0C, or 25C Florida weather..... only now
I have been using 5W-20 for years and I kept going through engines. I had to replace them every other year!
Now that I run 5W-40 in all my engines I've stopped having to replace them.
BTW.... this is all sarcasm. I know it is just circumstantial but there are millions of vehicles running 0W-20 oils and soon to be 0W-16 oils and I don't see them coming off the road because of engine lubrication failures.
Obsess over what you want but I'll continue to run my 0W-20 year round.
Now that I run 5W-40 in all my engines I've stopped having to replace them.
BTW.... this is all sarcasm. I know it is just circumstantial but there are millions of vehicles running 0W-20 oils and soon to be 0W-16 oils and I don't see them coming off the road because of engine lubrication failures.
Obsess over what you want but I'll continue to run my 0W-20 year round.
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?
>inb4 warranty
>inb4 warranty
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?
>inb4 warranty
Ha.... actually I run both. I just bought a hybrid last year and it will blow-up if I put 5W-20 in it! LOL...
But your 'success' has been with the 5W20 lol, how did you sneak 0W20 into there? What do you need the 0W rating for? What would you miss out on if you ran the 5W20?
>inb4 warranty
Ha.... actually I run both. I just bought a hybrid last year and it will blow-up if I put 5W-20 in it! LOL...
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