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The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission #4995976
01/30/19 05:07 PM
01/30/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
Thought I’d share my most recent work project . I have done several of these transmissions with the same issue. 3-4 upshift slip or flare between shifts. Here are some disassembly pics. Enjoy.

2E91F680-A4C0-4D9D-BD38-DAEF59C7E1CA.jpeg8D9BB816-80D5-4C0B-90E2-B72A8AB34100.jpeg63CB7863-BC37-4674-BCA2-CFE4A964E1BD.jpegF90CEF48-0A16-44FD-809C-FF323C265193.jpegAA030A30-9A67-43B4-AC36-945CB628096B.jpeg5F7DCA1E-3E46-43B8-AEB7-9132ADA07BC1.jpegC707A9F8-62C7-468B-8365-0712861412B2.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4995979
01/30/19 05:09 PM
01/30/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
A few more. Assembly pictures will follow once parts come in

75F90BDA-8889-44CA-B0B6-4552BAC4AA19.jpeg9D7E9469-FB89-4C06-859F-2570DCB84923.jpegC39E5DAD-8E66-45C4-ABA0-CEE9D6FE122A.jpeg7811BBC4-0819-4C1B-98B7-48BF48680F69.jpegE4B3F09B-7FCD-4D16-9D95-0CBC0D7B48B1.jpeg
Last edited by mattd; 01/30/19 05:09 PM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4995990
01/30/19 05:18 PM
01/30/19 05:18 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,278
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Online happy
SubieRubyRoo  Online Happy

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The land of USA-made Subies!
That transmission was way to clean to have failed. I think you're pulling our legs. LOL

Dang, those clutch disks are shot! What's the root cause and fix?

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4996002
01/30/19 05:26 PM
01/30/19 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,807
California
nthach Offline
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California
It doesn't look as complicated as I thought but those clutches are thin!

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4996003
01/30/19 05:28 PM
01/30/19 05:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,754
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline

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Silicon Valley
Clutch worn out? or glazed?


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: PandaBear] #4996036
01/30/19 05:55 PM
01/30/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
Worn down to the metal zero friction material left on half of the friction plates in that set. Forward, direct, and low/reverse were worn beyond maximum limits and the overdrive was worn 5 times max limit. I am very impressed how well the TCM adapted to the wear. This particular clutch (overdrive) has too little surface area compared the others in the transmission. There is an aftemarket clutch drum that has 50% more holding power from increased clutch count but requires a billet intermediate shaft and billet input shaft (which also acts as overdrive drum) to a tune of 1500$. Not a reasonable cost for a municipality. This truck is a F450 rescue with a 6.7 powerstroke. Just over 100k miles. It’s gstting a full overhaul. There are several updated hard parts too ford has made over the years.

This transmission is not bad to rebuild. Some special tools are required specific to this unit. They are also heavy 325lbs dry. The input assembly alone all together weighs 80 lbs . Its 4 pic up from bottom on the left.

Last edited by mattd; 01/30/19 06:05 PM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4996051
01/30/19 06:08 PM
01/30/19 06:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,696
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline

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Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted by mattd
Thought I’d share my most recent work project . I have done several of these transmissions with the same issue. 3-4 upshift slip or flare between shifts. Here are some disassembly pics. Enjoy.



What are you finding as the main problems?

I am working with an AT shop near here developing a rebuild ATF. The MERCON® LV fluid doesn't seem to have the FM longevity needed for 150,000 mile OCI's.

In addition, while the dual filter system removes particulates, the quick lockup feature of the TCC on upshifts shears the fluid pretty fast.


"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4996074
01/30/19 06:20 PM
01/30/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,053
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

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Canyon County Idaho
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: CT8] #4996120
01/30/19 06:45 PM
01/30/19 06:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
This is a diesel application. However the physical size between gas and diesel are the same but internally some differences. It has 6 forward ratios and a torque input capacity of 1400 lb ft.

Molakule, you are correct. In this application 150k miles is far too much for the fluid. The trans made it barely 2/3 of the way there. Ford now sells a friction modifier called XL16 and recommends using it after an overhaul. The torque converter clutch is used far more than the previous generations of the torqshift and can definitely contribute to shear. These transmissions are also designed to operate at around 200*F fluid temperature. The main issue I feel with this transmission is the overdrive clutch surface area. It was also designed with a molded rubber piston and all the other clutch sets use a solid aluminum piston with lip seals.

I’ll try to have some more detailed pics of the individual components when I reassemble it.

Last edited by mattd; 01/30/19 06:46 PM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: CT8] #4996134
01/30/19 06:49 PM
01/30/19 06:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,803
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline

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Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted by CT8
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


Both gas and diesel.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4996159
01/30/19 07:04 PM
01/30/19 07:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,696
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline

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Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted by mattd

...Molakule, you are correct. In this application 150k miles is far too much for the fluid. The trans made it barely 2/3 of the way there. Ford now sells a friction modifier called XL16 and recommends using it after an overhaul. The torque converter clutch is used far more than the previous generations of the torqshift and can definitely contribute to shear. These transmissions are also designed to operate at around 200*F fluid temperature. The main issue I feel with this transmission is the overdrive clutch surface area. It was also designed with a molded rubber piston and all the other clutch sets use a solid aluminum piston with lip seals...


Thanks for the info. The shop is very hesitant to use an MoDTC amide additive since this is an organo-metallic FM and we don't feel this is going to fix any problems.


"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." Jimmy Dean
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: bdcardinal] #4996160
01/30/19 07:04 PM
01/30/19 07:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,053
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

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Posts: 13,053
Canyon County Idaho
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CT8
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


Both gas and diesel.

Is your shop seeing many of the 60R140 trans with problems? I am a fluid and filter changer when the unit is new then sooner than later after the break in oil change


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: CT8] #4996169
01/30/19 07:10 PM
01/30/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
Right around 100k miles they start to develop issues. The 450s tend to show up faster than the 350s. My only guess is due to weight. Keep in mind a majority of the trucks I see have very hard miles. Constant run time with lots of city driving with hills. This particular truck has 17000 engine hours with just over 100k road miles. By the hours it’s approximately 560,000 engine miles.

Last edited by mattd; 01/30/19 07:16 PM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4996186
01/30/19 07:24 PM
01/30/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,747
Cedarbrae, Ontario
xxch4osxx Offline
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Cedarbrae, Ontario
Has this transmission ever been serviced through out the time it was in service? I would have thought that they would have at least one fluid and filter change in that amount of miles due to the severe operating environment they are used in.


2015 RAM SXT Crew Cab 5.7 with 6 speed tranny.

2008 Mazda 3 GS Sport Hatchback 5sp MT (Girlfriend's car)

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: xxch4osxx] #4996307
01/30/19 08:50 PM
01/30/19 08:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
No it has not. It makes too much sense to do that. The person that is in charge of the department does not believe in routine fluid changes (other than engine oil). I have convinced him otherwise as this is the 7th transmission failure in 2 years in rescue fleet alone.


2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: CT8] #4996957
01/31/19 12:21 PM
01/31/19 12:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,803
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline

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Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by CT8
Thanks for the pics were those trannies in a gas or diesel engine? the trans in huge !


Both gas and diesel.

Is your shop seeing many of the 60R140 trans with problems? I am a fluid and filter changer when the unit is new then sooner than later after the break in oil change

None that I have seen. But we generally don't repair something like OP does, they just have us put in a new/reman assembly.


2014 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack
1995 Ford Mustang GT

Ford/Mazda Parts Counter
NRA Benefactor Member
Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4997105
01/31/19 01:57 PM
01/31/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,747
Cedarbrae, Ontario
xxch4osxx Offline
xxch4osxx  Offline

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Cedarbrae, Ontario
Originally Posted by mattd
No it has not. It makes too much sense to do that. The person that is in charge of the department does not believe in routine fluid changes (other than engine oil). I have convinced him otherwise as this is the 7th transmission failure in 2 years in rescue fleet alone.


Not really surprising. They think they are saving money buy not doing proper preventitive maintenance till something grenades and ends up costing them big bucks. I can imagine these transmissions are not cheap to rebuild and the downtime of not having the vehicle in service can be detrimental for an emergency services outfit. It is good to know you have convinced them otherwise!


2015 RAM SXT Crew Cab 5.7 with 6 speed tranny.

2008 Mazda 3 GS Sport Hatchback 5sp MT (Girlfriend's car)

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4998404
02/01/19 01:00 PM
02/01/19 01:00 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,278
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Online happy
SubieRubyRoo  Online Happy

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Posts: 2,278
The land of USA-made Subies!
I can't believe that person is still employed. On fleet trucks the only real way to keep them on the road (and hence, making money) is to do preventive maintenance. I had a buddy that owned about ten semis that hauled steel in the NW Indiana area on local routes, so a couple loads per day loaded to the max weight limit of the roads. He said that a single day of not hauling loads on a single semi ended up costing him around $300-350 in lost income, AFTER all the bills and payrolls were paid.

Tell me any normal maintenance such as oil and trans fluid changes that will cost a business owner that does their own maintenance that much?? Now, add a trans rebuild and multiple downtime days together because of skimping on preventive maintenance... $15-20k realized loss to the business easily. Per truck. Adds up quick!

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #4998708
02/01/19 05:19 PM
02/01/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2010
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RI
Most of the parts came in still waiting on a half dozen things or so

BEB009D7-789E-4C7C-9D1F-C31B48204A41.jpegEF2A5B60-597C-4307-BC2C-45796B81AB9D.jpegAD1E68D0-F866-491A-8C37-6A074337756D.jpeg3F2C70FB-82ED-48F1-A4DB-3E9A4A9698CE.jpegA1A18FC7-C646-4EC1-9A23-329AF9BF7223.jpeg89342BEF-AB58-452E-9C7C-A7C771F7813C.jpegF5E58F72-78FB-4372-B484-A4D7B17CB6A5.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4998715
02/01/19 05:23 PM
02/01/19 05:23 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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A few more

D02148DE-B8B7-4E7B-8301-A0B1B8C9256B.jpegC2473C7F-C31E-4176-9F5A-191D17D4C4E9.jpeg5B721AA6-23A4-4AE2-9C1D-49BC7A54942B.jpeg771C2CD2-52FE-41E0-A8CE-B01599022C07.jpegC59DE5DD-2BE9-4F95-8515-E224C25D9511.jpeg4DF63995-6F05-433E-A3E6-3B9E5D06CEC9.jpeg5BC6FCC3-F89B-4889-8DA7-83CBE6245D52.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4998717
02/01/19 05:25 PM
02/01/19 05:25 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
And some more

E98DC326-0667-484F-BF0F-6CAE53009F70.jpeg8C4F3801-60F8-4120-96AF-9079F364D288.jpegFC83C7E7-045F-4954-A793-C45CFCBB5A4E.jpeg6519BCE2-EFD1-4027-A93F-4BCF7CA21C75.jpegB335247D-6978-4A87-AB00-5AF234AC34C8.jpeg596F99F6-F9D9-42D8-85BA-FAA8645586B8.jpeg8BE3B990-8B25-4BA2-8FB2-9BBC560A613F.jpeg109ACEC1-8AA8-43A4-9466-775523557EB3.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #4998741
02/01/19 05:48 PM
02/01/19 05:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,053
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

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Canyon County Idaho
Thanks and I hope you post more.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: CT8] #5002470
02/05/19 08:53 PM
02/05/19 08:53 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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A few parts still on back order and waiting for some selective snap rings to adjust clutch clearance but here is a few more for now

A2C50CA1-3B43-4AFB-8684-995FC283F468.jpeg95037D65-F0A3-4E1E-BAED-49C6EFDE3F1D.jpegC0038A8C-E206-4917-A18A-8233A616553C.jpeg402CECF4-E626-4461-8B4A-C3E576C18877.jpeg295E82ED-C1F7-462B-9093-7E6C312E2365.jpeg77539E46-022A-4AA3-AB56-DD7F2A6D4D2C.jpegDEB1F56E-2ECA-4109-AE61-7146E4850C40.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5002476
02/05/19 08:55 PM
02/05/19 08:55 PM
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Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
A few more

58AF72C5-2F13-4376-9E49-42BAB61676D2.jpegCB0E3B46-BEE5-4264-B6FC-394344FA6B60.jpegCEE3E5C0-39F3-4D11-AF00-775DB8DE5A27.jpeg7775BF90-B119-41F0-A2EE-8DDAC4727C13.jpeg38F2D8E3-07A8-4A31-9E0E-F57D555AFFF5.jpeg09466CA1-26F0-463B-80D7-5BDD9F20BFF6.jpeg3B9399A7-C59C-4A5D-AA0F-D2BAAF401041.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5002478
02/05/19 08:57 PM
02/05/19 08:57 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
And last round till I get some more parts

8493ACE6-049B-4B3D-AFBB-C29C86305EC0.jpeg4ACCCD31-A898-4285-A181-F891E42CE88E.jpegCFE29443-304E-43FE-B5C5-65B04DF2F8A8.jpegE39C9973-8B9C-48FE-86A2-8C639212D7A9.jpeg3A504DD4-69AF-4EB9-A609-9EBD0F0B2F9E.jpeg4E8CCEBA-6751-41C6-8EE6-6E13F4A9BACC.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5002488
02/05/19 09:08 PM
02/05/19 09:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 387
MD
claluja Online content
claluja  Online Content

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MD
Great info - thanks for posting. Will be ordering another filter and Mercon LV tomorrow for my 6R140W, based on the comments above. Has 155K, but haven't replaced filter or drained since 75K.


2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: claluja] #5002603
02/06/19 05:13 AM
02/06/19 05:13 AM
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Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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Definitely do so. These are not the cheapest units to rebuild. Due to the service the trucks I work on see I convinced the boss that to do a drain and fill once a year on all the trucks.

What year is your truck?

Last edited by mattd; 02/06/19 05:16 AM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5002610
02/06/19 05:27 AM
02/06/19 05:27 AM
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MD
claluja Online content
claluja  Online Content

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MD
Originally Posted by mattd
Definitely do so. These are not the cheapest units to rebuild. Due to the service the trucks I work on see I convinced the boss that to do a drain and fill once a year on all the trucks.

What year is your truck?


2014 F250 6.7 (20-30% of the miles towing 14K). Thanks for the advice!

Last edited by claluja; 02/06/19 05:34 AM.

2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: claluja] #5002640
02/06/19 06:20 AM
02/06/19 06:20 AM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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The 14s have most but not all the updated hard parts so if you ever have to have it rebuilt not too many updates other than replacing worn parts

When it starts to show issues it will usually start flaring shifting from 3-4 so just watch for that.

Is the truck tuned/deleted?

Last edited by mattd; 02/06/19 06:23 AM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5002658
02/06/19 06:49 AM
02/06/19 06:49 AM
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MD
claluja Online content
claluja  Online Content

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MD
Originally Posted by mattd
The 14s have most but not all the updated hard parts so if you ever have to have it rebuilt not too many updates other than replacing worn parts

When it starts to show issues it will usually start flaring shifting from 3-4 so just watch for that.

Is the truck tuned/deleted?


Yes, deleted about 11K ago. Tow tune slight HP increase. Thanks again!


2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: claluja] #5002661
02/06/19 06:54 AM
02/06/19 06:54 AM
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Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
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No problem if you ever have any questions in the future just shoot me a PM


2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5002923
02/06/19 10:39 AM
02/06/19 10:39 AM
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Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,389
Texas
Used to be a commercial from one of the oil change places . " Pay now or pay latter . " Another saying is a nickles worth of grease can save a $ 100 bearing .

Glad you convinced your supervisor to start being more proactive on servicing the vehicles .

Thanks for the post and the photos . :-)


Wyr
God bless
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5005156
02/08/19 05:40 PM
02/08/19 05:40 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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RI
Finished it up today last drum finally came in late this morning

6BC82B8C-6052-4B8E-9D27-CAC600BABA43.jpeg40EB8255-8529-4A2E-BF99-0F48BAA7FD8C.jpegD426CC8D-AB09-4C3F-A859-78E1333C0F0F.jpeg301DC28F-2E63-432E-AB3D-F5392F9CB2B8.jpegD408C3EA-5FC9-43F8-BE2F-6213743CDFAC.jpegB96BD36C-52B7-42E0-819C-F55675B723DB.jpeg

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5005158
02/08/19 05:42 PM
02/08/19 05:42 PM
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Posts: 768
RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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More

248F7D4B-6527-47EC-AB94-7463D9FA8962.jpegFE745B07-A2AC-4776-B866-ABBEA0F4B87A.jpegD3F6CB59-C480-4F90-AE65-C148734BCE71.jpeg145CC456-908F-497F-A14F-10445913AF52.jpeg05EA36EE-3659-478E-AB08-A9DFA00D61EA.jpegB2636EC1-7CB0-4F00-A414-3985FFE624E4.jpeg6E54ED94-75E4-442C-8DEB-C83EE4E5D473.jpeg

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5005159
02/08/19 05:43 PM
02/08/19 05:43 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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Posts: 768
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Some more

58C2333B-A933-4005-8B01-8DBCE63A9780.jpeg2681C975-2C0B-4F35-BF88-BDD7D68FAB79.jpeg205553A8-EA52-4556-80F8-807AF1A549D2.jpegF3E40818-1562-4990-9B4A-6EE207475B9C.jpeg037A76CF-7664-465D-BDF6-B4F235F35A62.jpeg64189E85-2A75-49C7-A02E-404FDC93BFF4.jpegB687DAF2-AA95-4F84-9450-7CB0DD2D6B92.jpeg

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5005161
02/08/19 05:44 PM
02/08/19 05:44 PM
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RI
mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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Last one gave it a paint job

76F120D1-93C3-479A-B1F0-565C0AF3164C.jpeg

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5005168
02/08/19 05:52 PM
02/08/19 05:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,803
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
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Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted by mattd
Last one gave it a paint job


My friends and I have this inside joke where whenever one of us has a transmission out on one of our cars, or are putting a new one in, we paint the transmission cases pink. It started with one of my friends doing it on his Bronco, forgetting about it, then seeing a picture of it on Facebook jumping at the dunes at Pismo Beach.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5007978
02/11/19 12:36 PM
02/11/19 12:36 PM
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Posts: 4,807
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

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California
Wasn't the Ford 6R140 series an answer to the Allison 1000 GM used? Or was a reworked and heavily tweaked 6R80 that in turn was somewhat ZF-based like the 6R60 and 5R110?

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: nthach] #5008144
02/11/19 04:03 PM
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mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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It’s the second generation torqshift. It’s related to the 5r110 but i suppose it could be viewed as a super heavy duty version of the 6r80. IIRC the answer to the Allison 1000 was the 5r110. IMO the 6r140 handles added power much better than the Allison 1000 with no upgrades. There are many people running around with 600+ hp on a stock transmission other than tuning changes

Last edited by mattd; 02/11/19 04:04 PM.

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5008247
02/11/19 06:09 PM
02/11/19 06:09 PM
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Posts: 6,078
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline

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Fort Lauderdale, FL
I'm only impressed because of the amount of torque a 600HP diesel makes. That transmission must be a real brick outhouse.


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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5008416
02/11/19 09:45 PM
02/11/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
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Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

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Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by mattd
It’s the second generation torqshift. It’s related to the 5r110 but i suppose it could be viewed as a super heavy duty version of the 6r80. IIRC the answer to the Allison 1000 was the 5r110. IMO the 6r140 handles added power much better than the Allison 1000 with no upgrades. There are many people running around with 600+ hp on a stock transmission other than tuning changes


I agree that the 6R140 handles added power A LOT better that a Allison 1000, I actually feel the same about the 5R110 with a good torque converter.
However.....It's been my experience that the 2006 & up Allison 1000 will run longer in the 350/650 output range at max GCWR.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: clinebarger] #5008570
02/12/19 07:09 AM
02/12/19 07:09 AM
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mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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The 5r110 is a great transmission that can take some abuse too. I have one in my personal truck. I have more experience with the ford transmssions than the Allison’s but from the ones I have seen they don’t take well to added power without some work. I will take your word for it about 06+ trucks.

If ford had made the overdrive clutch in the 6R140 with a better apply piston setup it would be more reliable. It has a very small range of contact on the first steel plate. There are aftermarket fixes for it but it is expensive. It would be a bullet proof transmission with an upgraded overdrive clutch. They did improve the Teflon sealing ring design with a solid peace vs a split ring on the 5R110. They also ditched all the molded pistons for aluminum ones except for overdrive on the 6r140 as yo could probably tel from the pictures

Last edited by mattd; 02/12/19 07:12 AM.

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: mattd] #5009360
02/12/19 08:29 PM
02/12/19 08:29 PM
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Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

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Fort Worth, Texas
And Manufacturers are well aware that "Thin Work Surface" apply pistons Cone the frictions & steels. Is this one offset aswell? The C2 clutch piston work surface in the 5spd Allison was thin & offset, Got corrected in the 6spd versions!

It's amazing how many builders will argue that Work Surface Area doesn't matter......I machine aluminum TH400 pistons to fit 4L80E's all the time, Though the TH400 pieces are getting harder & harder to find. But there are Billet versions $$$.

Pictures of apply piston Work Surface's to show everyone what the heck we're talking about!!
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: clinebarger] #5010193
02/13/19 04:19 PM
02/13/19 04:19 PM
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mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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No, it’s not offset. It’s even smaller than that C2 5 spd piston. This is how small the work area is. This is the steel plate that it pushes on. Second picture is the piston

9DB911CD-E809-4985-B74E-58161271B702.jpegAE31A949-993A-4B80-BBE6-0C86649F47E1.jpeg
Last edited by mattd; 02/13/19 04:43 PM.

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Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: clinebarger] #5010208
02/13/19 04:36 PM
02/13/19 04:36 PM
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California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

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Posts: 4,807
California
Originally Posted by clinebarger
And Manufacturers are well aware that "Thin Work Surface" apply pistons Cone the frictions & steels. Is this one offset aswell? The C2 clutch piston work surface in the 5spd Allison was thin & offset, Got corrected in the 6spd versions!


Pictures of apply piston Work Surface's to show everyone what the heck we're talking about!!


And that few mms of surface is responsible for transmitting power through the clutches via hydraulic actuation of the friction/steel assemblies. Wow. So much is leaning on that.

Re: The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission [Re: nthach] #5010216
02/13/19 04:44 PM
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mattd Offline OP
mattd  Offline OP

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Yes that is correct.


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