2012 Honda CBR - Rotella T6 5w-40

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V1

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Here are the UOA numbers of Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 for a 2012 Honda CBR1000RR. The oil spent one year in the engine (August, 2016 - August, 2017), and accumulated just over 5000 miles. Driving style was mixed between "normal" and spirited, and included one track day on this fill.

Here are the comments that were provided by Blackstone:

"Aluminum increased again, though this time it brought a little copper along for the ride. Aluminum
suggests piston wear (though it can come from transmission parts too, if the engine and transmission share
the oil), and copper suggests brass/bronze wear. Maybe some of this is accumulation from the longer oil
run, though we aren't totally sure that's the only thing going on. Cut back to about 3,000 miles on your next
interval and let's see how much metals settle down, then go from there. The thin viscosity is normal and the
0.5% fuel isn't a problem."



Rotella 5w-40.JPG
 
I know a few people have reported seemingly increased wear and a low viscosity on UOA's of T6. Many of those seem to have remedied the issue by using T5 or mixing their own T6 and T4 blend.
 
I read the report them all of a sudden realized CBR is a crotch rocket [my mind thought CR-V duh on me]
 
Years ago I bought a brand new CBR and scattered the engine at high sustained rpm and so did a lot of other people. Honda came out with a revision for the oil 10w50 or 10w60. I used the 10w60 in it once they put the new engine and trans in and ran it for 240K and it was still good. I ran it in the Fireblade, 1000F and 1100XX all without issue.
I would try the Castrol 10w50, it cost more but really seems to hold up under hard use.

https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-10W-50-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Bottle/dp/B008MISF54
 
I have a jug of that oil that is sitting on the shelf and won't ever touch my bike again. I'm saving it in case I happen to buy a Subaru some day, as I hear those cars love T6 5W40.
 
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I am realizing now that this should have been posted in the motorcycle UOA section...

Anyway, the 2012 CBR calls for 10w-30, for whatever that's worth. I had been using Honda GN-4 10w-30 all along until trying out T6. My only real complait was that the T6 seemed to make the clutch feel a bit less "grabby." Shifting was good the whole time, whereas GN-4 becomes a little notchy in short order.

The T6 I used was rated as a JASO-MA oil, so that was never an issue, per se. The viscosity reduced itself to a 30-weight with use, as anticipated. No complaints there. While I feel this oil performed acceptably given the circumstances, I'm at odds as to whether it is best to keep using T6 in this application. Saving a few bucks seems to be the only real benefit. Nominal at best..
 
Originally Posted by V1
I am realizing now that this should have been posted in the motorcycle UOA section...

Anyway, the 2012 CBR calls for 10w-30, for whatever that's worth. I had been using Honda GN-4 10w-30 all along until trying out T6. My only real complait was that the T6 seemed to make the clutch feel a bit less "grabby." Shifting was good the whole time, whereas GN-4 becomes a little notchy in short order.

The T6 I used was rated as a JASO-MA oil, so that was never an issue, per se. The viscosity reduced itself to a 30-weight with use, as anticipated. No complaints there. While I feel this oil performed acceptably given the circumstances, I'm at odds as to whether it is best to keep using T6 in this application. Saving a few bucks seems to be the only real benefit. Nominal at best..



To me it all comes down to shift feel in a motorcycle. That's why I don't like diesel oil in my vfr800, specifically how the clutch re-engages after a shift. I used to just run 20-50 in all my bikes and not think anything of it but started experimenting with different oils in the vfr800. I've used probably 20 different oils in this bike, sometimes it's minor but It seems like I can feel a difference in all of them. The best diesel oil for me was 10-30 conventional.

I understand people wanting to save money, and I could get by just fine with any of them, but some do feel nicer than others. As for the whole JASO-MA thing, I never worried about it, never had a problem.
 
My brother had an older CBR1000('06) and he used M1 15/50. He only put 400 or so miles on his oil(track bike) but he liked the way it didn't shear out of grade after all those miles at high temp and rpm's. This is in Calif. where the track temps can reach 100+ in April. The HTHS on this oil is very good, I believe over 3.7

He spent more money on tires for his CBR than I do for tires on my S2000. LOL

Rod
 
Here's my UOA assortment (posted elsewhere in this forum, use the first link below) from the past few years in my ZRX1200. Far right column is Rotella T6 5w40. Very similar miles and results to the OP of this thread. Not that impressed then, and no more impressed now.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4371237/1/kawasaki-zrx1200-various-uoas


This link has M1 10w40 in the far left column, I like this oil. Kept shift quality at a high level, even up to when it was changed.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...865603/1/zrx1200-mobil-1-10w40-4t-racing
 
Originally Posted by joe02151
wouldn't the 15w40 rotella hold viscosity much better than the 5w40?


yes of course it will 5w40 in my testing does not hold up in a shared sump.

the susvis was also greatly affected by the fuel... and a flash of 365 shows its probably more than 0.5%!
 
5k miles between an oil change in a 180hp bike, with a redline of 13k rpm and a shared sump including track day and spirited driving? I would do 2k miles absolute max. But this is only my view.
 
Try Mobil 1 10w40 4T Racing... You can see in the link 3 posts above it did pretty well considering it was the first full run (4603 miles) with new high compression pistons/rings after break-in (150 miles, T4). No track days, and the bike puts down 145-150 hp at the rear wheel (similar to the 2012 1000RR) and more torque everywhere by a good amount. I run the midrange rpm with the torque but run to high rpm going up through the middle gears on acceleration when appropriate (ZX11 ECU and ZX11 double valve springs installed for safe 11,500 rpm rev limit vs stock ECU and single valve springs w/10,500 rpm limit). Bike also has CVK40mm carbs from a ZX11/ZZR1200, ZZR1200 cams and full aftermarket 4-2-1 exhaust to help eek out the ponies.

Plenty of HOT summer temps at high elevation here in Colorado with 25% thinner air to flow through the radiator thus the fan will come on regularly in slow traffic going up mountain passes. Puts oil to the test.

I have to think your low flash point is fuel related, 365 deg is crappy low. Did you get the engine really up to temp before taking the sample? Do you let the bike warm up idling regularly or do you start it, give it a few moments and ride away prudently as things come up to temp?

V1, you hit it on the head. Cost savings is the biggest reason you ran this oil/would consider running it again.

Try the M1 10W40 4T, good stuff for what you are doing, IMO.
 
Riding for 5000 miles was a long interval - granted. However, since 3000+ mile runs (with plenty of hard driving) have proven to be acceptable using conventional GN4, I decided to give Rotella the old college try for a longer run. It seems to be a highly-regarded oil in the moto community. So this was nothing more than a science experiment..

The mileage in this run appears to be more of a factor than how many months it spent in the engine. I recall getting a TBN test in the past that showed plenty of additive remaining even after a full year. These results are not disappointing to me. I just expected slightly better - even considering the one track day I did.

Be all that as it may, this bike is ridden under varying conditions. Warm and cold temps, casual and hard driving, short and long trips. The engine is almost always brought up to full operating temperature. After start-up, I let the engine idle for no more than 2 minutes before slowly riding away. Once the engine temperature starts increasing, I gradually pick things up.


So nothing all that special going on here. I consider the way I operate the motorcycle to be normal, and as it was intended to be.
 
What is the oil in the first column to the right of the universal averages? Looks like the first four in chronological order are the same oil based on the additive package. The oil on the right of the averages looks to be different with a lot less Boron and more Calcium.

In any case, even on a prorated basis you have three or four times the amount of copper with T6 compared to most every other oil change. As well the flashpoint is consistently and notably lower for the past 3 OCI's regardless of mileage compared to the first 3 OCI's. That isn't the oil, that is excess fuel, IMO. I have no doubt you ride the bike as it is intended however there are changes that have occurred in what the numbers are saying.
 
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Thank you for the feedback. It might be a while before I can determine if there is a fuel contamination problem, but I will likely sample again after this season, and the next.

Every fill except this one has been with Honda GN-4,10w-30. Aside from that, absolutely nothing else has changed with this motorcycle. The bike is practically bone stock with the exception of the air intake, which has had the flapper valve assembly removed since brand new. For those unaware, it is the subsystem which uses vacuum pressure to open air blocker doors above 5000rpm or so.

It is due for new spark plugs, air filter, and valve inspection. None of those have been done since I purchased the motorcycle new in 2012. So maybe it's time.
grin.gif
 
Do the service items you mentioned, should reward you with a nice seat of the pants feeling that the bike is running well.

Valve adjustment was due a while ago and if they are iridium plugs they are probably ok, but for the cost change them. Have you at least checked the air filter??? Potentially it is really dirty and the fuel injection can't cut back on fuel far enough for the lack of O2 (if it uses an O2 sensor or has a loop that can do that) and you are running pig rich.
 
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