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Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: ZeeOSix] #4994869 01/29/19 05:48 PM
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Primus Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Noisy-Slow (better phrase) on cold startup Zee..... that was the #1 problem I had with Ultras. High efficiency filters effects many GMs. Affects our standing idle in gear - even their MPGs.

Manufacturers know this! That's why Hyundai puts this-type filter into action - why GM promotes the more flowing Ecore in many applications.

So when members here hail Ultra as the best - or they claim 99%@20 is king,..... well the best restriction is not always best for the engine.


Ultras are not restrictive, they flow as good or better than any oil filter out there. If you have a noisy start-up then it's possible the ADBV is leaking some - any filter can do that.

It's very hard to buy into that an oil filter is going to effect the engine's idle or gas mileage ... they just aren't that restrictive. Like I said, oil filters are only about 1/15 th as restrictive as the engine's oiling system. So hw can something that is that small of a flow restriction cause engines to not idle right or change the fuel mileage ... I can't see it actually happening.

Read this thread from where the link pops into it - LINK


I don't have a base to distrust owners personal experience with this or that filter. They hear a noise with one, but don't hear it with another. If they hear a noise on cold startups, this is a weak-up call. I have also read claims that M1 filters being too restrictive had destroyed a couple of Preludes' engines during events. At the same time I still cannot catch how a proper functioning filter may be restrictive, especially at idle. And what's about a by-pass valve ? Think there should be enough oil to circulate - quality of this oil is another story. As for a leaking ADBV, yes, this may happen, but if this is a cause then they should hear a noise right after a new filter is installed. Again, it's filled in with oil quite quickly and think an empty filter should not be a real cause of noise. Could not be the cause of noise certain combination of release valve setting on engine and filter's performance ?

As for data in the link, is it possible to extrapolate somehow DP with Ultra to values as per ISO 4548-1 ? Typical EU spec shows DP at nominal flow with 24 cSt oil viscosity. If I am not mistaken, ISO 4548-1 also foresees tests with 500 cSt oil viscosity, but to my regret I have never seen these results. Here are values for new filters:

Filter 1: DP = 7.3 PSI @ 6.6 GPM
Filter 2: DP < 14.2 PSI @ 8.0 GPM
Filter 3: DP < 4.4 PSI @ 4.5 GPM

Thank you in advance.

Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Bud_One] #4994986 01/29/19 07:31 PM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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I purchased a jug of QS Durability and a jug of Pennzoil Platinum this afternoon. I'll hold-off on any more for the Hyundai D.I. until GF6 gets established and rolling. Tomorrow I'll hit NAPA for a pair of ProSelects. I'll ziploc receipts for both purchases and jot-down the date & mileage when I do the OCs.


19 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4GDI Castrol Edge 5w30 / NAPA Mann-Hummel filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly Treatment
04 Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 Euro & K&N filter
03 Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 mix Fram EG filter
Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: wemay] #4995012 01/29/19 07:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,745
53' Stude Offline
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Posts: 13,745
Originally Posted by wemay
I couldn't help myself...



Are you going to use one of those next oil change?
Thanks Wemay wink

Last edited by 53' Stude; 01/29/19 07:56 PM.


Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Bud_One] #4995061 01/29/19 08:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11,310
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wemay Offline
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Posts: 11,310
Hi Adam,

Not sure just yet.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD
GTX Magnatec 5W20, Purolator PL14459

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
GTX Magnatec 5W30, OEM
Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: wemay] #4995080 01/29/19 08:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,745
53' Stude Offline
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Posts: 13,745
Originally Posted by wemay
Hi Adam,

Not sure just yet.



Ok, and those sure look exactly like OEM we use at the shop wink



Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Bud_One] #4995097 01/29/19 09:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
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wemay Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 11,310
I weighed an oem then one of these...same weight.


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD
GTX Magnatec 5W20, Purolator PL14459

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
GTX Magnatec 5W30, OEM
Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Primus] #4995184 01/29/19 10:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,818
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,818
Originally Posted by Primus
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Noisy-Slow (better phrase) on cold startup Zee..... that was the #1 problem I had with Ultras. High efficiency filters effects many GMs. Affects our standing idle in gear - even their MPGs.

Manufacturers know this! That's why Hyundai puts this-type filter into action - why GM promotes the more flowing Ecore in many applications.

So when members here hail Ultra as the best - or they claim 99%@20 is king,..... well the best restriction is not always best for the engine.

Ultras are not restrictive, they flow as good or better than any oil filter out there. If you have a noisy start-up then it's possible the ADBV is leaking some - any filter can do that.

It's very hard to buy into that an oil filter is going to effect the engine's idle or gas mileage ... they just aren't that restrictive. Like I said, oil filters are only about 1/15 th as restrictive as the engine's oiling system. So hw can something that is that small of a flow restriction cause engines to not idle right or change the fuel mileage ... I can't see it actually happening.

Read this thread from where the link pops into it - LINK


I don't have a base to distrust owners personal experience with this or that filter. They hear a noise with one, but don't hear it with another. If they hear a noise on cold startups, this is a weak-up call. I have also read claims that M1 filters being too restrictive had destroyed a couple of Preludes' engines during events. At the same time I still cannot catch how a proper functioning filter may be restrictive, especially at idle. And what's about a by-pass valve ? Think there should be enough oil to circulate - quality of this oil is another story. As for a leaking ADBV, yes, this may happen, but if this is a cause then they should hear a noise right after a new filter is installed. Again, it's filled in with oil quite quickly and think an empty filter should not be a real cause of noise. Could not be the cause of noise certain combination of release valve setting on engine and filter's performance ?

As for data in the link, is it possible to extrapolate somehow DP with Ultra to values as per ISO 4548-1 ? Typical EU spec shows DP at nominal flow with 24 cSt oil viscosity. If I am not mistaken, ISO 4548-1 also foresees tests with 500 cSt oil viscosity, but to my regret I have never seen these results. Here are values for new filters:

Filter 1: DP = 7.3 PSI @ 6.6 GPM
Filter 2: DP < 14.2 PSI @ 8.0 GPM
Filter 3: DP < 4.4 PSI @ 4.5 GPM

Thank you in advance.


Some engines are just more sensitive to ADBV leak down - and some engines may have hydraulic lifters that leak down some if the ADBV leaks and lets oil galleries drain down

Every vehicle I've ever changed oil on. I let it drain anywhere from 2 hours to over night. And even with a bone dry new oil filter installed, the engines I've owned never make one abnormal noise on first start-up after and oil change.

And as you mentioned, the filter bypass valve would open if the media was totally restrictiveness or clogged, and the engine would still get good oil supply with a good PD oil pump, especially at idle. Pretty much anyone who complains of start-up noise has an engine that is very sensitive to the ADBV leaking which causes some of the oil galleries above the filter to drain down.

Just very hard to buy in to someone saying an engine runs like crap and gets way worse gas mileage with certain oil filters installed. Especially knowing how restrictive a typical oil filter is compared to the actual flow restriction of an engine's oiling system. The oil filter is way less restrictive than the engine.

Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: ZeeOSix] #4995235 01/30/19 12:16 AM
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Pinoak Offline
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Posts: 569
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Hyundai
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
The real question now is what is the efficiency rating? If it isn't on the box don't buy it.
X % at 20 microns its time to stop playing their BS game.

AGAIN, some vehicle manufacturers want higher flow rates.

Not sure why anyone wants to slow oil flow, in an engine designed for increased flow. The manufacturer would use a hypothetical Fram Ultra-type, if the shoe of the engine fit.


How does "oil flow slow" when it's being forced through the system by a positive displacement oil pump? Especially when about every oil filter out there is only 1/15th as restricitve as the oiling system itself.

When the filter is restrictive and or the bypass is set too high or is disfunctional.

Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Pinoak] #4995255 01/30/19 01:00 AM
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Posts: 21,818
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Hyundai
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
The real question now is what is the efficiency rating? If it isn't on the box don't buy it.
X % at 20 microns its time to stop playing their BS game.

AGAIN, some vehicle manufacturers want higher flow rates.

Not sure why anyone wants to slow oil flow, in an engine designed for increased flow. The manufacturer would use a hypothetical Fram Ultra-type, if the shoe of the engine fit.


How does "oil flow slow" when it's being forced through the system by a positive displacement oil pump? Especially when about every oil filter out there is only 1/15th as restricitve as the oiling system itself.

When the filter is restrictive and or the bypass is set too high or is disfunctional.


GM is specifying bypass valves at 23+ PSI now. If those filters get nearly totally clogged GM must know there will still be adequate oil flow when the bypass starts opening at 23 PSI. GM is also back specing those filters, so they aren't matching those filters to engines with crazy PD oil pumps (ie, higher set pressure relief). So if a filter isn't hardly loaded at all, it's really not very restrictive, especially at idle when the oil pump is putting out minimun flow.

Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Pinoak] #4995879 01/30/19 04:50 PM
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SubieRubyRoo Offline
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Posts: 3,312
Originally Posted by Pinoak

When the filter is restrictive and or the bypass is set too high or is disfunctional.


Do the math... an oil filter typically has a couple HUNDRED square inches of media for oil to flow through. The inlet holes and outlet holes on a filter will both flow several gallons per minute. Then, after the filter, the bearings and galleries have very tiny passageways (generally about the size of one filter inlet hole) and they all end up feeding through bearing and lifter bore tolerances of a couple thousandths of an inch, which total nowhere near the size of the filter. ZeeOSix is correct, an oil filter will not and cannot "slow" the oil flow until the filter is essentially 100% blocked, probably before that point delta P will overcome the bypass spring and the additional flow will be picked up through the bypass. So, there will almost always be a similar level of flow through the filter, one way or another, as long as there is a bypass in the filter.

Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Bud_One] #4999795 02/02/19 08:19 PM
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SubieRubyRoo Offline
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Here’s my 31334 made 4/11/18:

2F7ED859-85D6-416C-AA3D-DEEA786CA68B.jpegE50DF938-F9AA-406A-8E99-6661635C931D.jpegCDBACF5F-2652-4D22-92E9-640748375878.jpeg
Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Bud_One] #5004591 02/08/19 07:52 AM
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GimmeTorq Offline
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Bought a regular Wix 51334 last night. It is *exactly* this filter now, at double the price of the NAPA. Happy because it was going into a Kia Soul but mad because I overpaid. Next time, NAPA it is...


2017 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD 2.5L
2014 Honda CTX700N
2012 Honda CR-V LX 2.4L
2010 Honda Fit 1.5L
2003 Honda Odyssey 3.5L - Traded-in
2002 Nissan Maxima 3.5L - Traded-in
Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: GimmeTorq] #5004611 02/08/19 08:20 AM
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Sayjac Offline
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Quote
….Next time, NAPA it is...
Yep, same as Wix labeled filter, less cost. Unless something changes here, local Napa store Gold 40% off semi annual sale, March or April.

Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Sayjac] #5036282 03/08/19 04:22 PM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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Originally Posted by Sayjac
Quote
….Next time, NAPA it is...
Yep, same as Wix labeled filter, less cost. Unless something changes here, local Napa store Gold 40% off semi annual sale, March or April.


Good luck trying to find it.

Both of my NAPA stores nearby have old stock on this 21334. Someday this new design will arrive. In the meantime I purchased the Hyundai OEM filter. So I'm all set until late October.
By then, who knows!!!!


19 Hyundai SantaFe 2.4GDI Castrol Edge 5w30 / NAPA Mann-Hummel filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly Treatment
04 Colorado 3.5 Castrol Edge 0W40 Euro & K&N filter
03 Malibu 3.1 QS / Valv Syn 5w30 mix Fram EG filter
Re: Napa Pro Select 21334 - New design [Re: Bud_One] #5042600 03/14/19 10:12 AM
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SlavaB Online Content
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Just stopped by a Napa store - they don’t have an updated one. Asked if they have the newer version and the guy tried to up sell me a Napa platinum


17 Kia Sportage EX 2.4 GDI / RP HPS 5w30, CQ Premium 85334
15 MB GLA250 4Matic 2.0T / Mercedes OEM 5w40, OEM filter
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