Old Surge Protector Still Good?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
5,294
I've had a Monster HTS 400 surge protector in service since 2006. I know that if it ever has taken a surge that it has the sacrificial type of protection and the protection is expended. What I don't know is when these devices age do they start to actually make the power worse, or "dirtier", than simply plugging your electronics directly into the wall outlet?

Monster HTS400:


[Linked Image]
 
I'm not an Electrician, maybe one will comment.

I've had Surge Protectors for at least 10 years and just go by the green/red LED to tell me if their still good.
I did quite alot of reading when buying my Whole House & Individual Surge Protectors.
I never read they go bad with age / unlike Smoke & CO Detectors.

The very least, buy from a reputable manufacturer, get a high joule rating and occasionally inspect the LED (indicator) lights.
 
Last edited:
Most surge protectors of that era are MOV (semiconductor) type. Over time they may go out of spec a bit, but should still work in terms of gross overloads.

Older ones than yours may have a spring loaded disconnector. These can fail in either direction, but the better ones become oversensitive over time. It becomes pretty obvious because you have to keep resetting the spring loaded switch manually. I have one of these still in service.

Lightning arrestors come in various forms, some have glass discharge tubes filled with a special mix of gasses design to conduct (short the circuit) at high voltage. As long as they keep their seal, they will work indefinitely. Sometimes you can tell just by looking at it (corossion, cracks) that it is compromised, otherwise problem is, it's hard to tell if they work without testing.

I live along a ridge in hill country. I have a bunch of surge protectors/arrestors of various ages. I continue to use them, but I use them in deference to their size and age. Meaning, I rely on newer ones for expensive equipment and older ones for older, less valuable equipment. I've had to toss a few, and a few UPS's hooked directly to the mains, over the years. Since the MOV's are always blown with this happen, I am confident that they caught a lightning strike to the power lines.

There is an internet personality w tom that trolls forums and claims all surge protectors are a scam except for one favorite type of his. His end argument is always the direct lightning strike, and ignores any other scenario. Well yes, if lightning hits your electronics directly, it will do what it wants and what it is plugged into won't matter.

I have multiple direct strike experiences and can tell you lightning can be weird, taking out parts of systems and leaving others, seemingly more vulnerable, alone. When I related these stories I was called a liar, and part of the scam conspiracy by the roving internet personality.

If you want "the best" I have used Brick Walls through multiple types of power events and never lost equipment protected by them:

https://www.brickwall.com/
 
I've heard that 5 years is a good rule of thumb to replace surge protectors as the Metal Oxide Varistors used in them do lose their effectiveness over a period of time due to taking minor power surges over the years. Better protectors have a monitor on them that shows when they are no longer functioning properly, but many protectors have no indicator on them to indicate a failure so replacing them is the only way to be sure that expensive equipment has surge protection.
 
I keep a spare new one out in the garage on a shelf, should the one behind my entertainment center karap-out, or others plugged in behind my desktop / surveillance camera computer station, where (2) exist.

Also, it's not a good habit to use every outlet available. Don't overload them and they will last a much longer time.
 
I don't think an older suppressor would add any noise or make the electricity any dirtier, especially the MOV type. They're typically placed in parallel with the incoming power (and shunts surges). If/when they fail, they should pop open, so it's essentially just a bare wire straight through.
 
Here is the one I have. https://www.tripplite.com/isobar-4-outlet-surge-protector-6-ft-cord-3330-joules-space-saving-plug~IBAR4 when it stops working I give them a call and they send me a new one. Sadly they are no longer made here, very rugged construction.
 
I'd keep using something that old, there's a good chance it has decent quality components. Anything comparable would today would probably be HT grade/$$$$$.

That looks like it was made before Monster really took off and became consumer grade Best Buy junk.
 
I had a couple that we're getting up in years (7+) and a couple weeks ago we had a major surge (tree cutting company dropped a tree on the line) and they worked exactly like they were supposed to, kinda. The surge was so big that it literally fried them; I couldn't even reset the breaker on one as it was literally melted. The other one actually made a loud audible buzz and pop switching on the breaker, thus going up in smoke (literally). The switches on both were literally melted as the first outlet on the strip. Don't think this went as they intended, but saved my equipment. I just spent $56 on 4 new ones at Home Depot and that little amount pars in comparison to the equipment it was hooked to. This is the first time I ever "needed" them, but glad I had them. I would use the older ones, but on caution. The ones I bought ranged from $9 to $15, so if it makes you sleep better at night, buy some new ones.
 
Originally Posted by maxdustington
I'd keep using something that old, there's a good chance it has decent quality components. Anything comparable would today would probably be HT grade/$$$$$.

That looks like it was made before Monster really took off and became consumer grade Best Buy junk.


Yeah the actual manufacture date I think is 2005.
 
Originally Posted by 46Harry
I've heard that 5 years is a good rule of thumb to replace surge protectors as the Metal Oxide Varistors used in them do lose their effectiveness over a period of time due to taking minor power surges over the years. Better protectors have a monitor on them that shows when they are no longer functioning properly, but many protectors have no indicator on them to indicate a failure so replacing them is the only way to be sure that expensive equipment has surge protection.


The MOV's do age due to getting minor hits over time and become ineffective. The filtering aspect of the surge suppressor may not be affected.
With newer standards over recent years, I tossed all of mine and bought new ones from well know company (APC) that does actual testing/certifications (and a warranty on the protected equipment). The way this one is designed, if it gets a big enough hit, it will fail open requiring you to replace it as it sacrificed itself to protect you.
 
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
I've had a Monster HTS 400 surge protector in service since 2006. I know that if it ever has taken a surge that it has the sacrificial type of protection and the protection is expended.


It is called electricity. That means if an electric current is incoming to a Monster, then at the exact same time, that same current is also outgoing into attached appliances. Much later, that protector parts fail (sacrifices) ... after damage has happened to things in that electrical path. Where is this sacrificial protection? It is the urban myth promoted to so many who even forget that basic electrical concept taught in elementary school science..

Even fuses have a voltage number. If a transient electrical current exceeds that voltage number, then a blown fuse continues to conduct current. A second reason why sacrificial protectors do not exist. It conducts that surge into attached appliances until that surge current finally stops. Only then does the disconnection exist.

MOVs must degrade. Degradation is the only failure mode that is acceptable. Catastrophic (sacrificial) failure is clearly stated as a violation of manufacturers specifications. But if that protector is grossly undersized, then a manufacture can promote outright lies (sacrificial protection) to the most naive consumers.

Why would they do that? View specification numbers. It has the same tiny protection also found in $10 protectors sold in Walmart. A $3 power strip, with five cent protector parts, is hyped by lies, advertising, myths, and hearsay into a $30 or $90 sale.

Monster has a long history of doing this. They sold speaker wire marked with the amp and speaker ends. Monster said connecting a speaker end wire to the amp would subvert sound. Many did just that and claimed they could hear a difference. It is called a scam. And it works because so many automatically believe what they are ordered to believe rather than think for themself.

So Monster sold that $7 speaker wire for $70. Monster's long history is to identify scams. And then sell an equivalent product for much higher profit. That Monster protector even sold in Radio Shack for $120.

Any honest person reads specification numbers. How many joules does it claim to absorb? Hundreds? Thousand? A surge that tiny is routinely converted to rock stable, low DC voltages by power supplies. That surge is converted to power safe to power semiconductors because that surgte is so tiny. A tiny surge destroys a sacrificial protector - to promote more sales.

More numbers. How often does a surge exist? Maybe once every seven or eleven years. Why would anyone say a protector must be replaced every two or five years? Those are profit centers. Marketing lies to naive consumers is that profitable.

Your concern is a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules. No plug-i protector claims to protect from typically destructive surges. Meanwhile, the solution routinely used over 100 years ago does protect from those surge. And does not fail after many such surges over many decades. But that means learning well proven science and over 100 years of proven experience everywhere in the world. Most don't learn from facts and numbers. Most are routinely manipulated by soundbytes, advertising, hearsay, spin, lies, and emotion.

That failure light can only report a catastrophic type failure - a completely unacceptable one. It can never report degradation - the acceptable type of failure.

To avert house fire, a one amp thermal fuse would disconnect protector parts as fast as possible from the surge. And leave all appliances connected to the surge. No problem. The numbers were posted above. Electronics will routinely convert that surge into low DC voltages to safely power semiconductors. Protect itself. Meanwhile a naive consumer, using wild speculation, will claim, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my electronics." Total bull invented by wild speculation. And completely dismissed once one actually learns specification numbers. Or learns what all MOV manufacture state with numbers often on page one of the datasheet. Catastrophic failures happen when the protector is grossly undersized. That light will only report when a ;protector is grossly undersized - should not have existed - was a potential fire. Also called a scam.

Effective protection even from direct lightning strikes costs about $1 per protected appliance. It is the solution routinely used over 100 years ago in facilities that cannot have damage. It comes from other companies known by any guy for integrity. Monster clearly never was on the integrity list.

Effective protection always (as in always) answers this question. Where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly 'absorbed'. The informed have asked and answered that question even 100 years ago. An effective solution costs that little - about $1 per protected appliance. If any one appliance needs protection, then every appliance must be protected.

It was always this simple. But first so many lies, hype, speculation, and scams must be exposed - above. Monster products will never answer that 'hundreds of thousands of joules' question. That would harm profits. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Obviously wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground. Then hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. Best protection has always means no surge anywhere inside. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.


Did I mention that a plug-in protector can even compromise (bypass) what is superior protection inside appliances? We engineers even demonstrated that in design reviews ... by literally tracing the surge path by actually replacing each damaged semiconductor. How many foolishly assumed price defines quality? How many ignored every specification number? Most apparently.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
With newer standards over recent years, I tossed all of mine and bought new ones from well know company (APC) that does actual testing/certifications (and a warranty on the protected equipment).
Do they? Or did wild speculation invent a myth. And then hearsay promoted it?

APC recently admitted some 15 million protectors must be removed immediately due to so many hundreds of house fires created by their protectors. This one is not even on their recall list: https://imgur.com/hwCWHMW

At least APC is honest enough to admit to the worst of those dangerous devices. Others cannot bother: https://i.redd.it/e34962ah06q11.jpg

A NC fire marshall discovered this problem when multiple protectors in their fire house failed catastrophically - spit smoke and sparks. But anyone can read specification numbers. How many joules does that APC claim to absorb? How do those near zero joules absorb a surge that can be hundreds of thousands of joules? What is at greater risk than household appliances? Those plug-in protectors also must be protected by a properly earthed 'whole house' solution. Otherwise this can happen:
"House fire caused by faulty surge protector not on recall list, Kingwood chief says" :
Quote
A pre-dawn fire at a home here yesterday was caused by a surge protector/power strip that overheated and caught fire, the township fire company chief reported today.

Chief Jason Narbonne said today that the surge protector wasn't overloaded; none of the electronics attached to it were in use and the protector appeared to be a newer model.

"It wasn't one of the surge protectors that was recalled," the chief said. "It was faulty." ...

The chief said that three items were plugged into the surge protector, including a TV and a game console. "There was nothing that would have overloaded it at all."

It was faulty because it was not protected by one properly earthed 'whole house' solution - that costs about $1 per protected appliance. Plug-in protectors should only be used if that 'whole house' solution exists. Plenty more numbers to discuss that. But enough for now.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by HangFire
There is an internet personality w tom that trolls forums and claims all surge protectors are a scam except for one favorite type of his. His end argument is always the direct lightning strike, and ignores any other scenario. Well yes, if lightning hits your electronics directly, it will do what it wants and what it is plugged into won't matter.

You were saying?
 
Originally Posted by HangFire
His end argument is always the direct lightning strike, and ignores any other scenario. Well yes, if lightning hits your electronics directly, it will do what it wants and what it is plugged into won't matter.

Effective protectors protect from all surges including those created by stray cars, tree rodents, linemen errors, wind, utility switching ... and lightning. Lightning does damage when a homeowner is so foolish as to waste money on plug-in protectors. Facilities that cannot suffer damage from any surge (including lightning) do not waste money on magic box, plug-in protectors.

So many make effective devices including Intermatic, Square D, Ditek, Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Syscom, Leviton, ABB, Delta, Erico, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). All companies known for integrity. Plug-in protectors, with tiny joules, come from other companies known for obscene profit margins and advertising that successfully manipulates the naive. Plug-in protectors do not claim to protect from any typically destructive surges. Even create house fires. And are successfully marketed to the emotional and most naive. Only the emotional would spend tens of times more money for a tiny joule APC. And would ignore the fire threat created by tiny joule (plug-in) protectors.
 
I'm a retired TV tech and this is my experience.
In the 80s-90s a lot of the (better) TVs had MOVs in them. The line cord came into the TV with a fuse on the hot side then into a choke before going on to the rectifiers and power supply.
In the line, after the fuse and before the choke, there was a MOV across the AC line.
I serviced many lightning damage/surge damage service calls over the decades where that MOV was destroyed and the fuse was open - with no other damage. Replace MOV & fuse and the TV ran good.

A direct lightning hit is another story - there is no "protection" from that .... and no rules. I have seen hits where the chassis had holes in it and plastic chunks out of the cabinet while the TV upstairs still ran after the power was restored to the house.

A MOV with a fast acting fuse will save a lot of equipment. ... but not all if there is lightning in the vicinity.
 
Originally Posted by Papa Bear
I serviced many lightning damage/surge damage service calls over the decades where that MOV was destroyed and the fuse was open - with no other damage. Replace MOV & fuse and the TV ran good

First, any MOV that fails catastrophically is a violation of the MOV manufacturer's specifications.

Second, what really happened. A surge incoming to that MOV, at the exact same time, was also outgoing into TV electronics. That surge, too tinyl to overwhelm robust protection inside appliances, also destroyed that tiny joule MOV.

A surge going through that MOV, at the exact same time, is also going through that TV. Where is protection? Long after a surge is done, then AC current finds that failed and shorted MOV. A fuse must blow to protect humans from a fire created by that grossly undersized MOV.

Then one, who fails to first consult numbers, uses speculation to conclude, "That MOV sacrificed itself to save that TV." Total nonsense. The same microsecond current in that MOV was also inside TV electronics - at the exact same time. MOV did no protection.

Third, MOV does protection when it does not fail catastrophically. Read MOV manufacturer datasheets. For example, this MOV manufacturer says how to test MOVs for its acceptable failure mode - degradation.
Quote
The change of Vb shall be measured after the impulse listed below is applied 10,000 times continuously with the interval of ten seconds at room temperature.
MOV must withstand even thousand of surges without catastrophic failure. Then eventually it suffers degradation - the acceptable failure mode. Its voltage (Vb) changes by 10% - the acceptable failure mode. That only happens when protection is properly sized.

Four, surges are typically once every seven years. Clearly no MOV should fail catastrophically as observed. That failure is directly traceable to a homeowner who failed to implement the only proven ('whole house) solution.

Five, many only speculate that fuse did protection. Fuse takes tens of milliseconds or seconds to trip. One surge (that destroys a grossly undersized protector part) is done in microseconds. Fuse clearly did nothing to protect TV parts - once we include numbers/.. Fuse purpose: to protect human life from a fire. In this case, protect from a fire created by a grossly undersized protector part.

Six, we engineers traced surge damage to learn what human mistake made that damage possible or likely. Effective protection always connects a surge to earth BEFORE it enters a structure. Only then is best protection, already inside every appliance (even without MOVs), not overwhelmed.

MOV, that failed catastrophically, did nothing to protect electronics. Failed MOV is why a fuse had to trip - to protect humans.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top