Oil to avoid?? May be a quick reference?

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Hey Patman..
I didnt think it was the green Castrol...
..are you that p***ed off at the grape coloured oil..???

[ May 20, 2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
mormit, that was not the synthetic oil. I didn't even hear about Synlub until fairly recently.

There was another synthetic oil a long time ago. Thing is, I nearly used it myself. I was thinking of giving synthetic oil a trial. I totally can't remember the name of the oil. It was taken off the market.

Actually, I heard that there were problems with Mobil 1 when it first came out. But now, it is an excellent motor oil.
 
quote:

Originally posted by 2K2AcuraTL:
Hey Patman..
I didnt think it was the green Castrol...
..are you that p***ed off at the grape coloured oil..???


I just think it's overpriced, overhyped oil which has never shown itself to be better than the rest like they claim. The fact that it thins out so easily tells me that they aren't exactly using the best VIIs out there either. Especially when I've seen UOAs where their 10w30 thins out! That's almost unheard of with even a $1 oil.

(PS, sorry I messed up your post above, I clicked edit instead of quote, so I had to retype in your original post)
 
quote:

AMSoil is not API certified. Perhaps it should be avoided?

Careful - Some Amsoil (the lower quality group III XL grades) are indeed fully API certified. The remainder full synthetic fully meet. No need to avoid for quality reasons.
 
Here is a thread that shines a favorable light on that other colored oil if you are a racer that is.

NOTE edit out link to other message board, which is a rule here, but painful for me to do since I'm a mod over there too!
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Here is a cut and paste of the quote I believe you're talking about though:

quote:

Last month local SCCA meeting had a guest speaker from a local race engine builder.

A length discussion came up about oil and after pretty extensive testing they have found that Mobil 1 heats up even more than some conventional oils. Pressure drops have occured at high RPM's also. Not to mention oil burn off and poor flow characteristics compared to other oils.

They recommended Amsoil, Royal Purpel, or Redline. Or for a conventional oil Valvoline racing oil.

Also something worth noting for you highly modified engine guys is that after becoming fuel saturated Mobil 1 was one of the worst oils even compared to other conventional oils.

I know of 3 engines in autocross cars that have blown. They were all using Mobil 1. One of those engines was mine

What will I use in the new motor? Valvoline racing in 10w30 this year. After some miles I will be using Redline next year.

Another interesting tidbit is that these guys have put TONS of passes on an 1,800 hp motor using
0W10 synthetic Royal Purpel. With VERY little bearing wear.



[ May 20, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
Dominic
You can buy food grade cottonseed oil from industrial supply outfits. It is the hydraulic oil used in food canning machinery. It is edible!
 
There are a lot of good points being made in here. I thought I’d summarize. For those of us lucky enough to live in North America, there are almost no oils available which are so bad, using them threatens … whether they have the API Starburst symbol or not. Avoid oil that has no brand or looks like it was packaged locally … maybe even in the back of a local warehouse.

Avoid non-detergent oils unless you are POSITIVE your application calls for this stuff … and even then, you would be better off getting a pump oil or other specialty lube which will have a lot of barrier anti-wear additives … something you won’t find in a SA grade oil at Walmart.
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I’d also avoid any product which has graphite or Teflon in it … although engine failures while using this stuff are very rare. These compounds are more of a “nuisance” promising reduced wear, greater mileage and power when you might get more mileage and power but actually increased wear.

I used to have prejudices against Quaker State and maybe a couple other brands believing their quality to be poor … and this may have been true 15+ years ago but I’ve dropped those prejudices as silly anachronisms. The NEW prejudices I have are more petty. They revolve around the way companies conduct themselves. I share davefr’s view voiced above as well as a few others in this thread.
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No need to revisit all that stuff. Best I can do is be honest about the brand(s). No need to deceive people into believing that a few particular brands won’t survive a 3,000 mile use interval. They all will.

But this site is not about oil being good enough. We dig a little deeper than that and that’s where brand preference comes into play.

--- Bror Jace
 
quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:

quote:

AMSoil is not API certified. Perhaps it should be avoided?

Careful - Some Amsoil ([XL-7500]) are indeed fully API certified. The remainder full synthetic fully meet. No need to avoid for quality reasons.


Actually, Amsoil's other oils do NOT meet API specs. They exceed the API's phosphorus maximum = .10%
 
Troy wrote:

quote:

Actually, Amsoil's other oils do NOT meet API specs. They exceed the API's phosphorus maximum = .10%

Not sure where you got that information. The oil carries the full starburst and Amsoil paid the API dues. Here's an OA to prove P number.

A Virgin Amsoil XL

[ May 21, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
Troy wrote:

quote:

Actually, Amsoil's other oils do NOT meet API specs. They exceed the API's phosphorus maximum = .10%

Not sure where you got that information. The oil carries the full starburst and Amsoil paid the API dues. Here's an OA to prove P number.

A Virgin Amsoil XL


But that is for an XL7500 oil, which we have already acknowledged meets API specs.

What about the other stuff thats supposed to be good for 25,000 or 35,000 mile changes according to Amsoil? If I recall, those still exceed the P cap set by API.
 
MNgopher, yes I thought we were talking about the the XL line.

Yes those oils are above 1000ppm P (although I have seen the Series 2K 0W-30 coming in under 1000ppm)
 
I FOUND THIS ONLINE CHECK IT OUT

https://www.torquenews.com/108/worst-oil-put-your-engine

The Petroleum Quality Institute of America says Liberty Gold Plus SMO 5W-30 Motor Oil and Bullseye Automotive Products High Mileage 10W-30 Motor Oil (SC/CC) are the worst oils to put in your engine because instead of making things run more smoothly they can stop your car dead eventually.

PQIA, which is based in Methuen, N.J., bills itself as "The independent resource for information and insights on the quality and performance of lubricants in the marketplace." It bought the two oils in question this month and last in Ohio and Michigan at different times so not just one batch of oil was tested. Their sample test results showed what was inside the bottles didn't match the labeled viscosity or its resistance to flow. The lower a fluid's viscosity the more easily it flows. Think water vs. molasses. Water has low viscosity. Molasses doesn't.

You don't want molasses pouring through your engine, nor do you want water pumping through your pistons. Extremely low viscosity oil would have the effect of water going through your engine.

According to Thomas F. Glenn, President of PQIA, "The test results for these products are the most concerning we have seen to date." To express these concerns Glenn says, "The viscosity for the 5W-30 tested is nearly 70% below where it should be, and the level of additives is less than a quarter of that required by original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) to protect automobiles currently on the road." Similarly, the 10W-30 PQIA tested has a very low viscosity and lacks the additives required to protect an engine from wear and corrosion.

The PQIA summary of the two motor oils is disturbing to read. Liberty Gold Plus SMO 5W-30 Motor Oil provides protection against wear, sludge build-up and rust. It also claims to help your engine start better in cold weather (because of its low viscosity). Yet, PQIA found " this product clearly is not a 5W-30, and does not meet any recognized specifications for a motor oil."

The news gets even more distressing the further you read on when you discover that this oil, instead of helping your engine, actually includes high levels of silicon, an abrasive material that can wreak havoc on an engine. In other words, this oil does the exact opposite of what it claims to do and enhances wear on your engine.

The Bullseye Automotive Products High Mileage 10W-30 Motor Oil doesn't fare any better. Its label claims it is an SAE 10W-30 "high mileage" motor that "helps keep engine clean, provides wear protection, helps prevent engine leaks, and fights rust and corrosion"

Well, as you may have guessed by now, it's not an SAE 10W-30 oil. But here's the real kicker. Just like the Liberty Gold Plus,does not meet any recognized specifications for a motor oil it . The viscosity for this oil is more than 75 percent below where it should be for a 10W-30, and lacks critical additives required by original equipment manufacturers to protect automobiles currently on the road.

PQIA, which likes to announce that it names the names of products and where they were bought, points out that consumers might have a false sense of confidence when buying these products because they were for sale at a Shell station. After all, Shell is a major oil corporation, the thinking goes, so the oil products sold at its stores must be good to purchase.

Well, that's not entirely true. PQIA reached out to Lisa Davis, President for Shell Lubricants, Americas, to address the issue. She told the trade group "Like many other major gasoline brands in the U.S., the name on the station sign reflects the brand of the motor fuel being sold at the station, while the convenience store and day-to-day site operations are the responsibility of the site owner and/or operator. While Shell doesn't dictate the brand or quality of non-fuel products carried by the independent operators of these stations, we do expect items sold at Shell-branded retail stations to be quality, on-spec products."

Davis, according to her statement to PQIA, has made a commitment to cleaning up the non-petroleum products sold at Shell stations (but isn't oil a petroleum product?) She said, "In reflecting on this situation, I believe the independent owners and operators of Shell-branded retail stations could benefit from education on the importance of offering consumers quality motor oils, such as the API- or OEM-certified oils described in vehicles' owner's manuals."

Want to know the best way to avoid putting the worst oils in your engine? Don't skimp on purchase price and go with synthetic oils from major brands like Mobil1. Purchase oil from auto parts stores and not convenience stores. Oil is the lifeblood of your engine. Don't save a buck and risk hundreds of dollars in repair work for your engine.
 
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Other then oils that have had PQIA warnings, the answer to this question should strictly be based on the application versus the oil formulation. What formula is good for a di turbo wont be the same as a hemi or a old high mileage vehicle, or whatever. Other then that, you might want to look at the historical uoa's and choose oils that have drastically changed their formulations especially those oils that have done so for other reasons then chasing the newest spec. Those would be dodgy oil formulations, and most of the time it is likely they are trying to save a couple pennies or they just don't really care. Case and point, any oil that has messed with moly levels for a decade, going back and forth from using moly or not. How could you ever trust that oil? Especially when oil manufacturers attitude is don't bother your pretty little head over it we know what we are doing. Many of conglomerates have zero interest in any single customer, choose one that answers the questions satisfactory. Pennzoil outside of this forum has answered my questions very satisfactory whenever I'd pose them, same as Redline. They are very forthcoming. Some other oil companies would never reply to the questions, not even to say we don't know the answer to that or we can't divulge that info, which is fine, like I said they are so big they really could care less. But when an oil company looses my trust when I faithfully used their product only to find out they took out the reason why I bought their oil in the first place (as in high moly level) with no notice and no explanation, that oil will never go into my crank case again. Dodgy formulations w/o an excuse, why use that and to top it off pay more because it is synthetic? There is zero reason to use those brands.
 
Originally Posted by burla
Other then oils that have had PQIA warnings, the answer to this question should strictly be based on the application versus the oil formulation. What formula is good for a di turbo wont be the same as a hemi or a old high mileage vehicle, or whatever. Other then that, you might want to look at the historical uoa's and choose oils that have drastically changed their formulations especially those oils that have done so for other reasons then chasing the newest spec. Those would be dodgy oil formulations, and most of the time it is likely they are trying to save a couple pennies or they just don't really care. Case and point, any oil that has messed with moly levels for a decade, going back and forth from using moly or not. How could you ever trust that oil? Especially when oil manufacturers attitude is don't bother your pretty little head over it we know what we are doing. Many of conglomerates have zero interest in any single customer, choose one that answers the questions satisfactory. Pennzoil outside of this forum has answered my questions very satisfactory whenever I'd pose them, same as Redline. They are very forthcoming. Some other oil companies would never reply to the questions, not even to say we don't know the answer to that or we can't divulge that info, which is fine, like I said they are so big they really could care less. But when an oil company looses my trust when I faithfully used their product only to find out they took out the reason why I bought their oil in the first place (as in high moly level) with no notice and no explanation, that oil will never go into my crank case again. Dodgy formulations w/o an excuse, why use that and to top it off pay more because it is synthetic? There is zero reason to use those brands.



Actually for the Ecoboost family nothing but current API ISLAC specs is recommended just like the Hemi.
 
Originally Posted by burla
Other then oils that have had PQIA warnings, the answer to this question should strictly be based on the application versus the oil formulation. What formula is good for a di turbo wont be the same as a hemi or a old high mileage vehicle, or whatever. Other then that, you might want to look at the historical uoa's and choose oils that have drastically changed their formulations especially those oils that have done so for other reasons then chasing the newest spec. Those would be dodgy oil formulations, and most of the time it is likely they are trying to save a couple pennies or they just don't really care. Case and point, any oil that has messed with moly levels for a decade, going back and forth from using moly or not. How could you ever trust that oil? Especially when oil manufacturers attitude is don't bother your pretty little head over it we know what we are doing. Many of conglomerates have zero interest in any single customer, choose one that answers the questions satisfactory. Pennzoil outside of this forum has answered my questions very satisfactory whenever I'd pose them, same as Redline. They are very forthcoming. Some other oil companies would never reply to the questions, not even to say we don't know the answer to that or we can't divulge that info, which is fine, like I said they are so big they really could care less. But when an oil company looses my trust when I faithfully used their product only to find out they took out the reason why I bought their oil in the first place (as in high moly level) with no notice and no explanation, that oil will never go into my crank case again. Dodgy formulations w/o an excuse, why use that and to top it off pay more because it is synthetic? There is zero reason to use those brands.


Not sure i understand. Before most oils changed their formulations to meet d1G2, different companies with their distinct formulations still met many of the same specs. Whether one had Moly or not made zero difference. Can you share a link where any additive is specifically required by one of the OEMs? Not giving you a hard time, just curious.
 
Originally Posted by Samrsnow
This has to be the oldest thread I've ever seen resurrected in my life. 2003/2019....sheesh.

Definitely anything dollar general brand.


Exactly my thought!!! This thread is sixteen years old!!!
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It did get me thinking, though. I remember back in those days, you could still find SA non-detergent oils fairly easily. I haven't seen them in a while, but I haven't been looking for them either. I hope that swill is fading away. Apparently, there were people who would unwittingly use the stuff, and then suffer the consequences. Ancient recipe SA oils, bad for your new Model-T are -- surprise surprise -- still horrible for your engine...
 
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