Honda CR-V oil dilution "only a tiny fraction of incidents"

[wemay]

Could it be there's just so much internet noise about this, it makes the issue seem much worse than the reality?


https://www.consumerreports.org/car...-turbo-engine-fix-details-rollout-plans/


"Honda CR-V Is Still Recommended

Some of our members noted that they purchased their CR-Vs based on Consumer Reports' recommendations, and they wondered whether CR was going to change its ratings. The answer is "not yet."

CR released its latest predicted reliability for the Honda CR-V on Oct. 24. Reports from owners continue to show that, overall, the CR-V is a reliable vehicle, says Jake Fisher, director of auto testing for CR.

"We continue to recommend the model," Fisher says. "It's only a tiny fraction of CR-V owners that are experiencing oil dilution. But for those owners who are, it's a very serious issue."

CR will stay in touch with its members about how their SUVs are working after the engine repairs are rolled out in December. We'll be continuing to monitor consumers' experiences, so keep sharing stories with us."

 

[joekingcorvette]

I wonder why they are not including the Honda Civic since it has the same engine.

 

[Sayjac]

Thanks for the link. Comments here should be interesting.

 

[wemay]

For my part, yes i continue to believe social media as it pertains to forums of any kind, multiply negative stories exponentially.

 

[dblshock]

it's the fraction of owner's who live in the truly cold and short trip....not an insignificant fraction, many units.

 

[Danno]

Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
I wonder why they are not including the Honda Civic since it has the same engine.

Article states Canada Civics will be included in the recall, must be colder here?

 

[FordBroncoVWJeta]

My moms CRV has already had the engine taken apart before 50,000 miles, due to the VTC actuator. Upon fixing the VTC actuator they also cracked the head. Car has had fuel dilution problems since new. I wonder if the fuel dilution problems had something to do with the failure of the VTC actuator.

If you look through my post history from late 2015 I have talked about the sniffing the open oil cap and it smelling like a gas tank. That's how bad it is.

Side note, of the 3 VW Jettas me and my dad have owned (2001, 2012, 2017) they have been in the shop far less than that CRV has.

 

[billt460]

I'm not getting the whole, "fuel dilution" phenomenon? If fuel is somehow getting into the oil, wouldn't it evaporate off through the crankcase ventilation system, as soon as the oil got up to operating temperature, (185F to 220F)? Perhaps if someone only drove a couple of miles to work in the Winter, and never warmed up the oil, it then might be an accumulated issue over time. But again, nothing a 30 minute drive at highway speeds would not remedy.

Many of the radial engine WW II fighters and bombers, (the Boeing B-17 and Republic P-47 Thunderbolt to name 2), actually had a fuel dilution switch on the instrument panel to deliberately dilute the engine oil with fuel in order to aid in cold weather starting in the European Theater. As soon as the engine(s) came up to temperature, the fuel would evaporate off. Not a problem.

 

[StevieC]

I know Terry Dyson is seeing it in his samples that he is testing and it's not just Northern States submitting samples. I keep in touch with him outside of here.

 

[Schmoe]

Got an 18 CRV. Two nights ago, filled it up and left if running. Front was facing north and there was a cold front that moved in. When I got back in, I did notice the temp gauge dropped a few notches. First time I've noticed that and I've been reading all the numerous forums about this issue. As soon as I put it back on the road, temps came up quickly. I think Honda was aware of the problem because they actually put mechanical slats in front of the radiator that close when the engine is not at normal temps...it's kind of cool actually the way it works. I guess that engine is just so thermodynamically efficient, it just doesn't produce enough heat when it's not under a load, or that turbo unit is robbing the heat. We've had some serious cold days here lately and the wife tells me when she's driving, heater works great, no problems. With the lab samples that are showing fuel dilution, I'm wondering if they are taken cold, or at least, not at operating temperature. I mean face it, not a lot of people are going to drop the oil sump when the engine is hot.

 

[jcartwright99]

Come on! If you are on BITOG, you know CR is biased as biased gets. I think 10 years back, it was found that they kept giving recommends to Honda's and Toyota's, that they hadn't even tested yet. CR may have started with a good idea but human nature ruined it. Add to it, they have a really hard time understanding the technology interfaces in the cars (CR yells at clouds!).

 

[emg]

Originally Posted by billt460
I'm not getting the whole, "fuel dilution" phenomenon? If fuel is somehow getting into the oil, wouldn't it evaporate off through the crankcase ventilation system, as soon as the oil got up to operating temperature, (185F to 220F)?


Yes.

Unfortunately, up here my oil rarely gets above 75C during the winter. It's just too darn cold for the engine to warm up around town. Even on the highway in winter, it's going to take a long time to get close to 100.

This is one of the main reasons I bought a non-turbo Forester: too much risk of damage from driving a direct-injection XT with fuel in the oil for six months a year.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by jcartwright99
Come on! If you are on BITOG, you know CR is biased as biased gets. I think 10 years back, it was found that they kept giving recommends to Honda's and Toyota's, that they hadn't even tested yet. CR may have started with a good idea but human nature ruined it. Add to it, they have a really hard time understanding the technology interfaces in the cars (CR yells at clouds!).

Unless someone is trying to prove a point then it's the holy grail. (Not aimed at the OP, talking about BITOG in general when it comes to CR)

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by emg
Originally Posted by billt460
I'm not getting the whole, "fuel dilution" phenomenon? If fuel is somehow getting into the oil, wouldn't it evaporate off through the crankcase ventilation system, as soon as the oil got up to operating temperature, (185F to 220F)?


Yes.

Unfortunately, up here my oil rarely gets above 75C during the winter. It's just too darn cold for the engine to warm up around town. Even on the highway in winter, it's going to take a long time to get close to 100.

This is one of the main reasons I bought a non-turbo Forester: too much risk of damage from driving a direct-injection XT with fuel in the oil for six months a year.

They do make 12 volt oil pan heaters. I wonder if someone were to add one of these to keep sump temperatures elevated but monitor and turn off manually / thermostatically if that would fix the problem.

 

[Danh]

Consider:

1) The average CR reader (or car owner) has no idea what fuel dilution is

2) The average CR reader (or car owner) likely never checks the engine oil

3) Even if aware of the issue, the average CR reader is unlikely to report it to the publication (so the basis for "tiny fraction" seems suspect)

4) Except for perhaps a single sample, I've yet to see a UOA on Honda's 1.5T from a lab that measures fuel dilution with gas chromotography that shows fuel content of less than 5%

Honda has acknowledged the problem in China, Canada and the US. Chinese and Canadian owners are being treated better the those in the US, getting extended warranties. American Honda has put out a "Fix" for this problem and lack of cabin heat, but reviews so far seem to show little improvement.

There is an issue here and it's not limited to cold weather states. Maybe it's engine programming to prevent LSPI that can be dialed-back when GF-6 is available, but in the meantime it seems like a good product to stay away from, despite CR's continued recommendation. And if CR was really trying to be helpful they could identify 20 1.5T owners, draw samples, send them to a good lab and report results.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by StevieC
They do make 12 volt oil pan heaters. I wonder if someone were to add one of these to keep sump temperatures elevated but monitor and turn off manually / thermostatically if that would fix the problem.

I was thinking the exact same thing. People in Alaska use plug in 110 volt oil pan heaters all the time. It saves wear and tear on the engines, and aids starting by preheating the oil. Some of them are very high wattage models that are capable of getting the oil quite hot.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by jcartwright99
Come on! If you are on BITOG, you know CR is biased as biased gets. I think 10 years back, it was found that they kept giving recommends to Honda's and Toyota's, that they hadn't even tested yet. CR may have started with a good idea but human nature ruined it. Add to it, they have a really hard time understanding the technology interfaces in the cars (CR yells at clouds!).
If they start giving bad reviews the manufacturer will stop giving them cars to test and stop advertising with them. CR seems like something a person who knows nothing about cars would read to confirm their purchase decision.

When is the last time you saw anything non-political get a negative review in mainstream media? Automotive journalism is all about shilling for ad revenue and free cars to drive.

 

[jhs914]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
If they start giving bad reviews the manufacturer will stop giving them cars to test and stop advertising with them. Automotive journalism is all about shilling for ad revenue and free cars to drive.

So how do you explain this?: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/ranger/2019/2019-ford-ranger-first-test-review/

And by the way, Consumer Reports buys their own test vehicles from dealers. And I am not a fan of CR, but this is a fact.

 

[billt460]

Can you just imagine what would happen here if Scotty Kilmer took a job with Consumer Reports?

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by billt460
Can you just imagine what would happen here if Scotty Kilmer took a job with Consumer Reports?
No, because he couldn't get the job.