TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
5,889
Location
Paramount, California
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine
Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1-103 oil filter
5142 miles and 622 days on oil (yes, almost two years)
Mostly short trips (probably hard on oil)
Sampled through the dipstick using the Blackstone vacuum pump
Oil level was about 0.3 quart low, slightly more consumption than the previous 0.2 quarts
No makeup oil used
UOA by Wear Check
Oil used was TGMO 0W-20 SN ©2015. It turned out that it had no high moly and probably no GTL either!

The results are similar to those in the past, including for M1 0W-40, except for copper, which came almost twice as much this time. Lead was low. Aluminum was low. Chromium is still a tad bit high. Iron is normal. TAN and TBN are both good.

It's hard to say whether thick or thin is better. However, M1 had the best results on chromium. Perhaps I'll try a thick 15W-40 this time to see what it does.

I'm not sure if the premium, high-efficiency oil filter helped but lead was good.

I also don't know where the extra copper came from but perhaps there was some bearing wear.

It looks like the coolant seep has stopped.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
 
Yeah coolant or not, the 0W40 dropped ring wear a bit. I bet this engine has at least 1.5mm thick rings at full tension. When was your last head gasket?
 
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
Yeah coolant or not, the 0W40 dropped ring wear a bit. I bet this engine has at least 1.5mm thick rings at full tension. When was your last head gasket?

Still the original head gasket.
 
What lots of folks with 4cylinder toyota engine is to put 20w50 when I lived back in Mexico. 80s toyota pickups still hauling 2 or 3 metric tons on the daily.
 
That's quite a detailed lab report from Wear Check.
smile.gif


I also see that back in 1985(probably quoting the OM), 5W30 was not recommended. However, that would be different today.

May I ask just for my own curiosity, how many total miles are on this engine?
 
Originally Posted by Char Baby
May I ask just for my own curiosity, how many total miles are on this engine?

The mileage info is shown on the UOA. 271,627.4 miles at the last sample on January 12, 2019.

[Linked Image]
 
Hmmm, 271K! that's a lot of miles on any engine regardless of how old/young the engine is. And living where it's warm all year, I'd use something slightly heavier...or not! IDK, something like 10W30 in your 100F summer and 5W30 the other times of year.

At this point in terms of years & miles, IDK if it even matters any longer.

^^^ I'm saying that to be funny because, well really, who knows?
 
Originally Posted by Artem
The sample was pulled in 2013 and you are JUST NOW posting it?
crazy2.gif





Look at the previous report.
 
What was you fuel economy with the 0w20 compared to a 0w40 oil? Zinc additive used?
How do you rate your copper wear result and did using a thinner oil on a 270k mile engine cause issues?
 
Originally Posted by Artem
The sample was pulled in 2013 and you are JUST NOW posting it?
crazy2.gif


The UOAs are in reverse chronological order as usual, dating from January 12, 2019, to June 27, 2012.
Originally Posted by DrDanger
What was you fuel economy with the 0w20 compared to a 0w40 oil? Zinc additive used?
How do you rate your copper wear result and did using a thinner oil on a 270k mile engine cause issues?

Fuel economy is hard to measure. It depends on driving conditions. Between 15W-40 and 0W-20, I measured up to about 8% difference when driving very gently. It could be less or more in other driving conditions, such as aggressive driving or short trips.

Interestingly, lead, which comes from the bearings, is low, whereas copper, which may also come from the bearings is high. I am more worried about chromium, which comes from the rings. I'll try a thick grade next time to see what happens, especially with chromium. Iron, which comes from the valvetrain, is normal.

No aftermarket oil additives where used. I used GM/ACDelco cooling-system sealing tabs before the oil change with this current oil fill for which sampling was done.
 
Any objections to Delo SDE 15W-40 CK-4/SN conventional (HTHSV = 4.2 cP, phosphorus = 760 ppm) for the next fill?

Other options are M1 15W-50 SN full synthetic, Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic, or a ten-year-old jug of Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM conventional.
 
I say use the 10 year jug of Delvac since it has a high HTHS viscosity, has relatively modern specifications, and has been paid for already. If the money means little to you, the Delo SDE 15W-40 would be good to try as well.
 
Arent you at least a bit concerned about natural paraffin/ wax ageing/agglomeration for the dino oil?
Especially if you go more than 1 year, like on this run?
Copper as the softest metal in the engine (I could be wrong), would have to go before the lead, next liner or plating metals (I could be very wrong, chromium), due to worse bearing tolerances. I would go heavier and add some moly. Maybe blend the dino with some of the synthetic stuff.
I'll stop spamming now.
 
Since the lead is low, the copper probably came from the bushings/thrust washers. It could be some transient effect or even some measurement error.

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about conventional for two-year OCIs.

Note that the universal averages shown in the last column of the Blackstone report are for 2,600 miles. Since I ran for twice the mileage and close to two years, my numbers are still a lot better than the universal averages.

Another choice is PPPP Euro 5W-40 A3/B4/SN. It's expensive though.
 
Considering lab measuring error of a few ppm you are barely seeing any wear. Certainly nothing to worry about.
Was the engine oil up to temp or cold. I would trust a cold reading a bit less and probably try the dino on a slightly shorter interval.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Any objections to Delo SDE 15W-40 CK-4/SN conventional (HTHSV = 4.2 cP, phosphorus = 760 ppm) for the next fill?

Other options are M1 15W-50 SN full synthetic, Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic, or a ten-year-old jug of Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM conventional.

I don't think "Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic" exists. There is Delo XSP 5W-40 syn, and there is Delo XLE 15W-40 blend. I wouldn't mind if you tried these 2, but it's time to use the Delvac before the jug disintegrates.
 
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Considering lab measuring error of a few ppm you are barely seeing any wear. Certainly nothing to worry about.
Was the engine oil up to temp or cold. I would trust a cold reading a bit less and probably try the dino on a slightly shorter interval.

Driven for 20 miles on the freeway and hot.

Originally Posted by zorobabel
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Any objections to Delo SDE 15W-40 CK-4/SN conventional (HTHSV = 4.2 cP, phosphorus = 760 ppm) for the next fill?
Other options are M1 15W-50 SN full synthetic, Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic, or a ten-year-old jug of Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM conventional.

I don't think "Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic" exists. There is Delo XSP 5W-40 syn, and there is Delo XLE 15W-40 blend. I wouldn't mind if you tried these 2, but it's time to use the Delvac before the jug disintegrates.

My typo. It's Delo XSP 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic. Yes, I'm also aware of the Delo XLE 15W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS synthetic blend. Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM is about eight-years-old. No SN PLUS and Allison TES-439 on the SDE, while the XLE and XSP have them.

There is no moly in the XSP and XLE. SDE seems to have a better additive package. I didn't see much difference in wear metals in UOAs for conventional and synthetic HDEOs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top