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TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC #4988042
01/22/19 09:38 PM
01/22/19 09:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine
Mobil 1 Extended Performance M1-103 oil filter
5142 miles and 622 days on oil (yes, almost two years)
Mostly short trips (probably hard on oil)
Sampled through the dipstick using the Blackstone vacuum pump
Oil level was about 0.3 quart low, slightly more consumption than the previous 0.2 quarts
No makeup oil used
UOA by Wear Check
Oil used was TGMO 0W-20 SN ©2015. It turned out that it had no high moly and probably no GTL either!

The results are similar to those in the past, including for M1 0W-40, except for copper, which came almost twice as much this time. Lead was low. Aluminum was low. Chromium is still a tad bit high. Iron is normal. TAN and TBN are both good.

It's hard to say whether thick or thin is better. However, M1 had the best results on chromium. Perhaps I'll try a thick 15W-40 this time to see what it does.

I'm not sure if the premium, high-efficiency oil filter helped but lead was good.

I also don't know where the extra copper came from but perhaps there was some bearing wear.

It looks like the coolant seep has stopped.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988054
01/22/19 10:02 PM
01/22/19 10:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,719
Toronto
Yeah coolant or not, the 0W40 dropped ring wear a bit. I bet this engine has at least 1.5mm thick rings at full tension. When was your last head gasket?


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: PeterPolyol] #4988058
01/22/19 10:10 PM
01/22/19 10:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
Yeah coolant or not, the 0W40 dropped ring wear a bit. I bet this engine has at least 1.5mm thick rings at full tension. When was your last head gasket?

Still the original head gasket.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988107
01/23/19 12:09 AM
01/23/19 12:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 86
Texas, USA
PPWarrior Offline
PPWarrior  Offline

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 86
Texas, USA
What lots of folks with 4cylinder toyota engine is to put 20w50 when I lived back in Mexico. 80s toyota pickups still hauling 2 or 3 metric tons on the daily.

Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988132
01/23/19 03:29 AM
01/23/19 03:29 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,898
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,898
ROCHESTER, NY
That's quite a detailed lab report from Wear Check. smile

I also see that back in 1985(probably quoting the OM), 5W30 was not recommended. However, that would be different today.

May I ask just for my own curiosity, how many total miles are on this engine?


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Char Baby] #4988149
01/23/19 05:06 AM
01/23/19 05:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted by Char Baby
May I ask just for my own curiosity, how many total miles are on this engine?

The mileage info is shown on the UOA. 271,627.4 miles at the last sample on January 12, 2019.

[Linked Image]


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988157
01/23/19 05:29 AM
01/23/19 05:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,055
KS
FordBroncoVWJeta Online content
FordBroncoVWJeta  Online Content

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,055
KS
Why 0w-20?


2017 Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T - 2015 Honda CRV 2.4 - 2012 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 - 2001 Pontiac Sunfire 2.2
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988231
01/23/19 07:23 AM
01/23/19 07:23 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,898
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,898
ROCHESTER, NY
Hmmm, 271K! that's a lot of miles on any engine regardless of how old/young the engine is. And living where it's warm all year, I'd use something slightly heavier...or not! IDK, something like 10W30 in your 100F summer and 5W30 the other times of year.

At this point in terms of years & miles, IDK if it even matters any longer.

^^^ I'm saying that to be funny because, well really, who knows?


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988334
01/23/19 09:45 AM
01/23/19 09:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,468
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,468
Florida
The sample was pulled in 2013 and you are JUST NOW posting it? crzy


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Artem] #4988392
01/23/19 10:36 AM
01/23/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,563
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,563
...
Originally Posted by Artem
The sample was pulled in 2013 and you are JUST NOW posting it? crzy




Look at the previous report.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988577
01/23/19 01:31 PM
01/23/19 01:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
East Europe
DrDanger Offline
DrDanger  Offline

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
East Europe
What was you fuel economy with the 0w20 compared to a 0w40 oil? Zinc additive used?
How do you rate your copper wear result and did using a thinner oil on a 270k mile engine cause issues?

Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: DrDanger] #4988814
01/23/19 05:45 PM
01/23/19 05:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted by Artem
The sample was pulled in 2013 and you are JUST NOW posting it? crzy

The UOAs are in reverse chronological order as usual, dating from January 12, 2019, to June 27, 2012.
Originally Posted by DrDanger
What was you fuel economy with the 0w20 compared to a 0w40 oil? Zinc additive used?
How do you rate your copper wear result and did using a thinner oil on a 270k mile engine cause issues?

Fuel economy is hard to measure. It depends on driving conditions. Between 15W-40 and 0W-20, I measured up to about 8% difference when driving very gently. It could be less or more in other driving conditions, such as aggressive driving or short trips.

Interestingly, lead, which comes from the bearings, is low, whereas copper, which may also come from the bearings is high. I am more worried about chromium, which comes from the rings. I'll try a thick grade next time to see what happens, especially with chromium. Iron, which comes from the valvetrain, is normal.

No aftermarket oil additives where used. I used GM/ACDelco cooling-system sealing tabs before the oil change with this current oil fill for which sampling was done.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988821
01/23/19 05:50 PM
01/23/19 05:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Any objections to Delo SDE 15W-40 CK-4/SN conventional (HTHSV = 4.2 cP, phosphorus = 760 ppm) for the next fill?

Other options are M1 15W-50 SN full synthetic, Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic, or a ten-year-old jug of Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM conventional.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988977
01/23/19 08:39 PM
01/23/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,156
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,156
Fredericksburg, VA
I say use the 10 year jug of Delvac since it has a high HTHS viscosity, has relatively modern specifications, and has been paid for already. If the money means little to you, the Delo SDE 15W-40 would be good to try as well.

Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4988990
01/23/19 08:57 PM
01/23/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
East Europe
DrDanger Offline
DrDanger  Offline

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
East Europe
Arent you at least a bit concerned about natural paraffin/ wax ageing/agglomeration for the dino oil?
Especially if you go more than 1 year, like on this run?
Copper as the softest metal in the engine (I could be wrong), would have to go before the lead, next liner or plating metals (I could be very wrong, chromium), due to worse bearing tolerances. I would go heavier and add some moly. Maybe blend the dino with some of the synthetic stuff.
I'll stop spamming now.

Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4989026
01/23/19 10:02 PM
01/23/19 10:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Since the lead is low, the copper probably came from the bushings/thrust washers. It could be some transient effect or even some measurement error.

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about conventional for two-year OCIs.

Note that the universal averages shown in the last column of the Blackstone report are for 2,600 miles. Since I ran for twice the mileage and close to two years, my numbers are still a lot better than the universal averages.

Another choice is PPPP Euro 5W-40 A3/B4/SN. It's expensive though.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4989387
01/24/19 10:12 AM
01/24/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
East Europe
DrDanger Offline
DrDanger  Offline

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 46
East Europe
Considering lab measuring error of a few ppm you are barely seeing any wear. Certainly nothing to worry about.
Was the engine oil up to temp or cold. I would trust a cold reading a bit less and probably try the dino on a slightly shorter interval.

Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4989433
01/24/19 10:56 AM
01/24/19 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 733
Anaheim, CA
zorobabel Offline
zorobabel  Offline

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 733
Anaheim, CA
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Any objections to Delo SDE 15W-40 CK-4/SN conventional (HTHSV = 4.2 cP, phosphorus = 760 ppm) for the next fill?

Other options are M1 15W-50 SN full synthetic, Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic, or a ten-year-old jug of Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM conventional.

I don't think "Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic" exists. There is Delo XSP 5W-40 syn, and there is Delo XLE 15W-40 blend. I wouldn't mind if you tried these 2, but it's time to use the Delvac before the jug disintegrates.


1997 Maxima 195k, Castrol GTX Synblend 5W-30, FL400S
2004 Corolla 196k, VWB 5w20 + SSS 10w40, MGL4967
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: zorobabel] #4989663
01/24/19 02:37 PM
01/24/19 02:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Considering lab measuring error of a few ppm you are barely seeing any wear. Certainly nothing to worry about.
Was the engine oil up to temp or cold. I would trust a cold reading a bit less and probably try the dino on a slightly shorter interval.

Driven for 20 miles on the freeway and hot.

Originally Posted by zorobabel
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Any objections to Delo SDE 15W-40 CK-4/SN conventional (HTHSV = 4.2 cP, phosphorus = 760 ppm) for the next fill?
Other options are M1 15W-50 SN full synthetic, Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic, or a ten-year-old jug of Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM conventional.

I don't think "Delo XLE 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic" exists. There is Delo XSP 5W-40 syn, and there is Delo XLE 15W-40 blend. I wouldn't mind if you tried these 2, but it's time to use the Delvac before the jug disintegrates.

My typo. It's Delo XSP 5W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS full synthetic. Yes, I'm also aware of the Delo XLE 15W-40 CK-4/SN PLUS synthetic blend. Delvac 15W-40 CJ-4/SM is about eight-years-old. No SN PLUS and Allison TES-439 on the SDE, while the XLE and XSP have them.

There is no moly in the XSP and XLE. SDE seems to have a better additive package. I didn't see much difference in wear metals in UOAs for conventional and synthetic HDEOs.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #4994093
01/28/19 08:29 PM
01/28/19 08:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
The next OCI will be M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS and FU XG3600 oil filter.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: Gokhan] #5003611
02/07/19 01:51 AM
02/07/19 01:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 972
South East Asia
kr_bitog Offline
kr_bitog  Offline

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 972
South East Asia
Which container is your TGMO? Quart or can?

Re: TGMO 0W-20 SN (Toyota), TBN/TAN, 5142 M, 85 Corolla 4A-LC [Re: kr_bitog] #5012570
02/15/19 06:53 PM
02/15/19 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Gokhan Offline OP
Gokhan  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,847
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted by kr_bitog
Which container is your TGMO? Quart or can?

Quart is the only container here other than the 55-gallon drum.


1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 272,000 M
Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 SN
Mobil 1 EP M1-103 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket
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