New Harley synthetic 80w-140 gear released

[shanneba]

For all the Harley riders.

Saw this this morning on the HD parts and accessory web site:

Heavy Synthetic GEAR oil 80w-140
https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/heavy-synthetic-gear-oil

TESTED-CERTIFIED for use in Harley-Davidson® transmission and primary chaincase applications. Exclusively engineered for Harley-Davidson® Motorcycles, this Heavy Synthetic Gear Oil is intended for use in extreme temperature environments (desert heat or cold weather), frequent two-up riding and heavy load riding applications.

Dual viscosity (SAE 80W-140), heavy weight gear & primary oil was developed with proprietary additives and pure synthetic base stock
so it flows better at cold start-up then in high temperatures viscosity behaves like a 140 weight oil to provide maximum
Formulated to maintain the proper coefficient of friction for clutch operation and provide superior lubrication for the primary chain drive
Provides specialized lubricity for the anti-wear requirements of transmission gears across a wider temperature range than mineral based oil
Approved by Harley-Davidson for use in all stages of transmission and primary chain case life
Not for use in the crankcase as a motor oil


All H-D® Transmissions and the following primary chaincase applications: ‘71-later XL, '83-'84 XR1000, '08-'13 XR, and '84-later Big Twin models with wet-type diaphram spring clutch.
Not for use in '02-'17 VRSCâ„¢ or '15-later XG models.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I think they missed out on the marketing part here... instead of "dual viscosity" (which is certainly misleading), how about:

"Infinitely variable, temperature-controlled viscosity"?? Do I have a future in marketing?

 

[DuckRyder]

Ouch at the pricing, who do they think they are, Red Line?

 

[GMBoy]

Most Harley riders, myself included, have been using gear oil for YEARS. Like their inferior Syn3 oil that is priced sky high - they can keep that oil too!

 

[troop]

Yeah .. Local walmart/Supertech 75w140 for $11.75
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-75W-140-Synthetic-Gear-Oil-1-Quart/16795247

 

[alarmguy]

Great post Shanneba,

Being in a HOT summer climate I very well MAY, (if it keeps me curious enough) give it a try in the transmission for fun. Currently use Formula+ and been happy with it.
I change at half the recommended interval @ 7,500 to 10,000 (once a year) miles max instead of 20,000.

Price doesnt seem to bad to me for a dealer vehicle product of any kind, Super tech at $12, name brand stuff over $13.

 

[gman2304]

I've used the Redline Shockproof in my Harley transmissions, 5 and 6 speeds for a few years. I dump it at every other OCI. IIRC the heavy is 75w250. The light is 75w140.

 

[kmrcstintn]

geez that is salty pricing! last year I burned up a gift card at an independent shop & got Klotz full synthetic 75w-140 V Twin Transmission lube (carries a GL-5 rating with hypoid gear application) for use in the scooter rear diff (spec'd for 140 wt gear lube) and it costed less...$16.85/qt

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by gman2304
I've used the Redline Shockproof in my Harley transmissions, 5 and 6 speeds for a few years. I dump it at every other OCI. IIRC the heavy is 75w250. The light is 75w140.


Lots of happy users of Red Line, its known I still use standard mineral oil Formula+. I do because that is what the manufacturer uses and gives long service life. This is kind of ground breaking to me that Harley is now selling a heavy gear oil and its sort of reassuring if I ever try it that its an endorsed product.

The attraction for me is, I ride in a HOT climate so a more heavy oil would almost be called for vs someone up north, however I stuck to HD recommendation as they know more then me.

There is one down side that no one EVER discusses, with more heavy oil (and also the reason I stayed with the recommended oil) the more heavy the oil, the hotter your transmission temps are and in some cases turning your bearings a black color from the heat.
To me that isnt a plus, documented cases of black bearings (though) still working coming out of bikes that run heavy gear lubes.
AGAIN, Im not saying its a bad thing but at the same time what benefit to using a heavy oil.

One thing I would say, I think it would be NUTS to use anything in a 75w250. Why? We already know Harley Transmissions outlast the bike owners using regular 50 weight mineral oil, there is no proof that any other oil is better.

Why experiment with 250 gear oil? and until this new oil from Harley, why even 140 gear oil?
I think the purpose of the new HD gear oil is simply to get in on the profit and take a piece of the gear oil pie from Redline, Mobile ect.
(good move on their part)

 

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by gman2304
I've used the Redline Shockproof in my Harley transmissions, 5 and 6 speeds for a few years. I dump it at every other OCI. IIRC the heavy is 75w250. The light is 75w140.


Lots of happy users of Red Line, its known I still use standard mineral oil Formula+. I do because that is what the manufacturer uses and gives long service life. This is kind of ground breaking to me that Harley is now selling a heavy gear oil and its sort of reassuring if I ever try it that its an endorsed product.

The attraction for me is, I ride in a HOT climate so a more heavy oil would almost be called for vs someone up north, however I stuck to HD recommendation as they know more then me.

There is one down side that no one EVER discusses, with more heavy oil (and also the reason I stayed with the recommended oil) the more heavy the oil, the hotter your transmission temps are and in some cases turning your bearings a black color from the heat.
To me that isnt a plus, documented cases of black bearings (though) still working coming out of bikes that run heavy gear lubes.
AGAIN, Im not saying its a bad thing but at the same time what benefit to using a heavy oil.

One thing I would say, I think it would be NUTS to use anything in a 75w250. Why? We already know Harley Transmissions outlast the bike owners using regular 50 weight mineral oil, there is no proof that any other oil is better.

Why experiment with 250 gear oil? and until this new oil from Harley, why even 140 gear oil?
I think the purpose of the new HD gear oil is simply to get in on the profit and take a piece of the gear oil pie from Redline, Mobile ect.
(good move on their part)
You really need to take the Harley blinders off. Since you got your bike, you've have said you use "Harley products because they know whats best for your bike". And when it's been shown to you there are other products specifically made for Harley's that work flawlessly , you can't bring yourself to use them because Harley says to use their products. But you will use a Diesel rated oil that's not made for motorcycle use, then question Harley's recommendation to Finally use gear oil in the transmission?. I know you don't want to hears this, but even your bike will have quieter shifts and lessen the chance of developing a shaft leak by using anyone's gear oil. You can ask any of the thousands of people that run it instead of motor oil in a Harley gear box.,,

 

[MoreCowbellAz]

Regarding the Redline viscosity of 75w250 stated above, according to their web site" The Heavy can be
rated as a 75W250 Gear Oil, but has the lower internal fluid friction of an SAE 75W90". Not sure what that means in real terms but I would think it means something along the lines of it flows like a 90 at op temp but has the oil film thickness of a 250. They seem to tout that film thickness or toughness as their big benefit.

FWIW I use it in my RK and it does perform great. Materially better than standard off the shelf lube, IDK. But it shifts like butter even after 20k.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I have regular Formula+ in my Sporty. I'll probably use synthetic engine oil (especially considering the amount of highway use and the track day I plan this summer), but probably will just use regular trans oil...though considering the RPM's, maybe not...

My wife's PC gets whatever 15W-40 HDEO is on sale, and doesn't seem to care much.

 

[alarmguy]

I dont understand why someone would put a 250 weight gear oil in a transmission made for a 50 weight motor oil or a 140 gear oil.

Would they do that in an automobile or truck that they own?
Trust the words of a highly priced oil that even though its a 250 weight, it acts like a 90?

Anyway sure its fine, just not sure of the purpose. its not going to make anything last longer and if anything shorten the life of the transmission by overheating the bearings.
Bearings coming out of transmission with a 250 or any heavy weight run for a long time will be black.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
I dont understand why someone would put a 250 weight gear oil in a transmission made for a 50 weight motor oil or a 140 gear oil.

Would they do that in an automobile or truck that they own?
Trust the words of a highly priced oil that even though its a 250 weight, it acts like a 90?

Anyway sure its fine, just not sure of the purpose. its not going to make anything last longer and if anything shorten the life of the transmission by overheating the bearings.
Bearings coming out of transmission with a 250 or any heavy weight run for a long time will be black.


I've got shockproof heavy in my trans. It transforms the shifting into something less like a tractor... that is why.

I asked the master tech at my dealer about it and he said it was a good choice.

Can you provide any examples of all these black overheated bearings you speak of from shockproof heavy?

 

[BigCahuna]

This post started off talking about 80/140 wt Harley trans oil, and changed to why would you use 75/ 250 wt gear oil?. According to the comparison chart I looked at, the 75/250 wt oil would roughly be the same weight as 70 wt motor oil. I don't know of anything that requires that weight oil, unless it's some heavy duty truck requirement. The only possible reason for using that in a Harley might be in a Trike, that is heavily loaded up with 2 heavy passengers, being ridden in an extremely hot climate where the trans gets noisy and shifting gets hard. Even if it was used in a drag bike, it might not be helpful.,,

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by DuckRyder
Originally Posted by alarmguy
I dont understand why someone would put a 250 weight gear oil in a transmission made for a 50 weight motor oil or a 140 gear oil.

Would they do that in an automobile or truck that they own?
Trust the words of a highly priced oil that even though its a 250 weight, it acts like a 90?

Anyway sure its fine, just not sure of the purpose. its not going to make anything last longer and if anything shorten the life of the transmission by overheating the bearings.
Bearings coming out of transmission with a 250 or any heavy weight run for a long time will be black.


I've got shockproof heavy in my trans. It transforms the shifting into something less like a tractor... that is why.

I asked the master tech at my dealer about it and he said it was a good choice.

Can you provide any examples of all these black overheated bearings you speak of from shockproof heavy?


Well, granted if your transmission shifts like a tractor and the 240 works for you, I would most likely/maybe do the same thing if a cause can not be found. Because chances are the transmission will outlast the interest in the bike. )

I wish I could provide the post of the photos, and you never know, MAYBE I will find it one day but I doubt it, it could be in any number of forums and 10s of thousands of posts in the last 4 years. If I see it one day I will post it, Ill look for it but not going to drive myself nuts looking for it..

Here was the post as I remember it;

Guy was a Harley mechanic, do not remember if he was a indy or Harley Dealer mechanic.
He rebuilds/repairs Harley transmissions.

The debate was about gear oil in transmissions, he posted no thoughts on if it was a good idea or bad idea which to me built credibility.
He only posted what he said was an observation as NONE of these transmissions issues were related to bearing failure.

He posted a photo (at least one) of a collection he keeps of blackened or color tinged bearings that he removed from Harley transmissions, he stated he didnt know why but when they come out this color they are always from transmissions that ran gear oil. ( I cant remember if weight or brand was mentioned)
He assumed maybe it was heat but again, the issue with these transmissions were not bearing issues and again, just posting an observation.

(me personally have no doubt its from heat, my thinking goes more thick lube more heat and being much of my riding is in 95+ degree heat that is the last thing I want more heat,

Now that HD endorses gear lube I am pretty sure for fun I may try it one day, I am surprised at their new product but I think its more to do with marketing and profit, meaning steal business from after market gear oil makers.
I will however stick to a real SAE of not over 140 and have no idea what brand I may use but most likely not going to pay $20 a quart unless again for fun. Would like the highest Mil spec for copper protection though and with the HD oil, you know the gear lube will have the best corrosion rating since its a transmission.

I wonder if any automobile makers who required and still requires motor oil in the transmission ever changed their position or added gear lube to their product line.
Years ago, my Honda Accord manual took standard 10/40 Castrol motor oil too,. or maybe it was 30 or whatever. Not sure if Honda still uses motor oil or some thing else.

 

[alarmguy]

oh and by the way (not directed at you DR)
One reason why I do not automatically create my own reasons for using a non specified lubricant in any of my vehicles, car, bike, truck or boat.
Is this as an example -

"Mobil Delvac 1 Gear Oil 80w140 (5 Gal. Pail)
Not intended for automatic, manual or semiautomatic transmissions for which engine oil or automatic transmission fluids are recommended Specifications Mobil Delvac 1 Gear Oil meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry and builder specifications:"

 

[BigCahuna]

First it was use formula in your trans, then it was use Syn 3 in your trans, now its use gear oil in your trans. Why would you think they know whats a better trans lube then the thousands of people that have been using gear oils for years?. My only motor failure I ever had was with Harley's branded motor oil. After that I decided my choice of oil that I will use will be based on reports of longevity and price. Whose name on the bottle doesn't meant anything . Companies whose only purpose of being in business is to sell a defined line of products, have to be more reliable and dependable then a company who sells oil , tee shirts, dog collars, and dew rags.,,,

 

[Jarlaxle]

Anyone have any idea who makes HD's oils?

 

[gman2304]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Anyone have any idea who makes HD's oils?

Last I heard it was Citgo.