Pics - 2005 Highlander 3.3L 158k miles
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Looks quite good. A tiny bit of discolouration but nothing worth worrying about at this mileage
It looks very good. Someone will say it sludge is about to form but all things considered keep doing what you have been.
A nice engine, and as Overkill noted, good, even with the fairly substantial varnish.
I've owned two MZ series engines, both 3.0L with VVT-i, in a Highlander (01) and a Camry (03.5). I believe them to be good engines, especially after Toyota apparently made some adjustments after early ones, especially the pre-VVT-i examples, gained the rep for being Sludgemakers (sorry, I just love that word...).
Obviously, you've taken great care of yours, but you still have the varnish. I admit, I'm greedy and compulsive -- I like to see bare metal! Anyway, I wonder if the varnish reflects that this is simply a "hot-headed" engine that, even after the post-Sludgemaker adjustments, still tends to "cook" oil?
I've owned two MZ series engines, both 3.0L with VVT-i, in a Highlander (01) and a Camry (03.5). I believe them to be good engines, especially after Toyota apparently made some adjustments after early ones, especially the pre-VVT-i examples, gained the rep for being Sludgemakers (sorry, I just love that word...).
Obviously, you've taken great care of yours, but you still have the varnish. I admit, I'm greedy and compulsive -- I like to see bare metal! Anyway, I wonder if the varnish reflects that this is simply a "hot-headed" engine that, even after the post-Sludgemaker adjustments, still tends to "cook" oil?
Looks good
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
I see no evidence of solids or carbon. Unless the discoloration on any moving parts has a mass( such as you could scrape it off with an edge) I wouldn't worry about it. It looks like the aluminum parts have been "seasoned" by the dyes and oils)
Clean looking valvetrain.
Clean looking valvetrain.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
I agree and most of Toyota engines seem to have that coating of varnish.
However, the popular belief on BITOG is that synthetic oils don't varnish, like at all. I've seen it repeated many, many times.
This is a perfect example that they do.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
I agree and most of Toyota engines seem to have that coating of varnish.
However, the popular belief on BITOG is that synthetic oils don't varnish, like at all. I've seen it repeated many, many times.
This is a perfect example that they do.
This one seems quite varnished up. I do valve cover gaskets on the 1MZ/3MZ periodically and they are all cleaner than this.
My guess is that your service intervals are too long and the UOAs are not giving you the full story.
My guess is that your service intervals are too long and the UOAs are not giving you the full story.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
I agree and most of Toyota engines seem to have that coating of varnish.
However, the popular belief on BITOG is that synthetic oils don't varnish, like at all. I've seen it repeated many, many times.
This is a perfect example that they do.
Yup, the contaminant holding capacity of the lubricant only need be exceeded for this to occur. Different designs respond differently to things like OCI length due to how they generate the products that form varnish and other deposits and so blanket recommendations on OCI length because: synthetic, are often misplaced if something like TBN retention is the only parameter. The negative effects of varnish accumulation will also vary significantly with design but general issues like ring sticking (starting with the oil control rings) are pretty universal once significant accumulation occurs.
My assumption is that this is where oils like Redline might excel given the solid splash of POE in the blend. I doubt it takes much to allow for the product to better deal with these contaminants. Back when Mobil 1 was 'tri-syn" POE was a noted component as well. I believe it does double-duty as a seal-conditioning component to counteract the effects of PAO as well as providing enhanced solubility.
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
I agree and most of Toyota engines seem to have that coating of varnish.
However, the popular belief on BITOG is that synthetic oils don't varnish, like at all. I've seen it repeated many, many times.
This is a perfect example that they do.
Yup, the contaminant holding capacity of the lubricant only need be exceeded for this to occur. Different designs respond differently to things like OCI length due to how they generate the products that form varnish and other deposits and so blanket recommendations on OCI length because: synthetic, are often misplaced if something like TBN retention is the only parameter. The negative effects of varnish accumulation will also vary significantly with design but general issues like ring sticking (starting with the oil control rings) are pretty universal once significant accumulation occurs.
My assumption is that this is where oils like Redline might excel given the solid splash of POE in the blend. I doubt it takes much to allow for the product to better deal with these contaminants. Back when Mobil 1 was 'tri-syn" POE was a noted component as well. I believe it does double-duty as a seal-conditioning component to counteract the effects of PAO as well as providing enhanced solubility.
I agree it is a design issue and OCI issue. Not a fatal one. And not one oil selection can do much for. Shorter ocis is about it.
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
Again, it may be related to the nature of the MZ engine family. See my post above.
Originally Posted by The Critic
My guess is that your service intervals are too long and the UOAs are not giving you the full story.
More to the story:
Originally Posted by dkryan
My wife's 2005 Highlander with 135k well-maintained miles on it has a problem.
It has run exceedingly well up until this afternoon. When she first started it in the garage, a horrendous rattling sound came from under the hood followed by a white smokescreen from the tailpipe.
She immediately shut it down. I checked under the hood but could find anything that was obviously amiss.
I started it, fortunately there was no rattle, but the air was heavy with the smell of fuel. When I backed it out of the garage, the
white exhaust emerged from the tailpipe again.
I'm afraid to ask "what just happened?" Because it will logically be followed by "how much?"
And.....another OP. Not sure either one was really resolved since no update was posted in either thread. Maybe it needs a valve adjustment and new oem pcv valve since both of those often get overlooked at high miles.
Originally Posted by dkryan
2005 Highlander with 142k well maintained miles.
The timing belt was changed at 96k, as was the pre-tensioner, the idler pulley, the belts, plugs, and the water pump.
Yesterday, I got out of the SUV to get something out of the garage. As I walked by the front-end (the engine was running) I immediately noticed the engine sounded louder than normal.
I popped the hood and isolated the noise to the area of the belts/pulleys (I think). I shut off the engine and checked the belts and tension, all of which was fine.
The "sound" seemed metallic to me and had me thinking "bearing."
I took the SUV to my indy mechanic and he agreed there was a mild but noticeable metallic sound.
Unfortunately, we both agreed the sound seemed to emanate from under the cam cover which is fairly close to the pulleys.
I made an appointment for two weeks from now. He's going to pull the belts and run the engine to see if the noise goes away. If so, that sounds like a cheaper fix.
If the noise remains without the belts on, he wants to remove the cam cover and go from there.
I have not seen any Toyota forum comments concerning any issue involving the cam with this vehicle.
Any thoughts on possible causes?Thanks!
My guess is that your service intervals are too long and the UOAs are not giving you the full story.
More to the story:
Originally Posted by dkryan
My wife's 2005 Highlander with 135k well-maintained miles on it has a problem.
It has run exceedingly well up until this afternoon. When she first started it in the garage, a horrendous rattling sound came from under the hood followed by a white smokescreen from the tailpipe.
She immediately shut it down. I checked under the hood but could find anything that was obviously amiss.
I started it, fortunately there was no rattle, but the air was heavy with the smell of fuel. When I backed it out of the garage, the
white exhaust emerged from the tailpipe again.
I'm afraid to ask "what just happened?" Because it will logically be followed by "how much?"
And.....another OP. Not sure either one was really resolved since no update was posted in either thread. Maybe it needs a valve adjustment and new oem pcv valve since both of those often get overlooked at high miles.
Originally Posted by dkryan
2005 Highlander with 142k well maintained miles.
The timing belt was changed at 96k, as was the pre-tensioner, the idler pulley, the belts, plugs, and the water pump.
Yesterday, I got out of the SUV to get something out of the garage. As I walked by the front-end (the engine was running) I immediately noticed the engine sounded louder than normal.
I popped the hood and isolated the noise to the area of the belts/pulleys (I think). I shut off the engine and checked the belts and tension, all of which was fine.
The "sound" seemed metallic to me and had me thinking "bearing."
I took the SUV to my indy mechanic and he agreed there was a mild but noticeable metallic sound.
Unfortunately, we both agreed the sound seemed to emanate from under the cam cover which is fairly close to the pulleys.
I made an appointment for two weeks from now. He's going to pull the belts and run the engine to see if the noise goes away. If so, that sounds like a cheaper fix.
If the noise remains without the belts on, he wants to remove the cam cover and go from there.
I have not seen any Toyota forum comments concerning any issue involving the cam with this vehicle.
Any thoughts on possible causes?Thanks!
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dkryan
I used M-1 for about the first 60k miles.
Then I used Castrol Edge Titanium for three OCIs, followed by a 9k OCI with Amsoil SSO.
Platinum Ultra was used for every oil change since then, with the exception of the current fill.
Looks like someone that used SOPUS/QSGB oil
Everyone thinks they cause varnish and sludge.
OP: looks very good, thanks for pics
I used M-1 for about the first 60k miles.
Then I used Castrol Edge Titanium for three OCIs, followed by a 9k OCI with Amsoil SSO.
Platinum Ultra was used for every oil change since then, with the exception of the current fill.
Looks like someone that used SOPUS/QSGB oil
Everyone thinks they cause varnish and sludge.
OP: looks very good, thanks for pics
Last edited:
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
The above was my exact reaction when the valve cover came off. I really thought, at minimum, P-Ultra would clean anything that needed cleaning, especially after using it for 60k+ miles.
Backtrack - thanks, everyone, for the constructive feedback!
All OCIs were 7.5k to 8k miles except for the Amsoil run. Filters used were Ultra, Bosch D+, Purolator Pure One, or M-1.
I concur that the varnish is due, in part, to the engine design. And I will also dial my OCIs to the 7.5k mile mark going forward. And for consistency, I'll stay with Ultra 5w-30.
I'm surprised to see varnish with nothing but synthetic oil. It looks good, but I would expect better considering that OP used pretty much top regarded oils.
The above was my exact reaction when the valve cover came off. I really thought, at minimum, P-Ultra would clean anything that needed cleaning, especially after using it for 60k+ miles.
Backtrack - thanks, everyone, for the constructive feedback!
All OCIs were 7.5k to 8k miles except for the Amsoil run. Filters used were Ultra, Bosch D+, Purolator Pure One, or M-1.
I concur that the varnish is due, in part, to the engine design. And I will also dial my OCIs to the 7.5k mile mark going forward. And for consistency, I'll stay with Ultra 5w-30.
Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Originally Posted by The Critic
My guess is that your service intervals are too long and the UOAs are not giving you the full story.
More to the story:
Originally Posted by dkryan
My wife's 2005 Highlander with 135k well-maintained miles on it has a problem.
It has run exceedingly well up until this afternoon. When she first started it in the garage, a horrendous rattling sound came from under the hood followed by a white smokescreen from the tailpipe.
She immediately shut it down. I checked under the hood but could find anything that was obviously amiss.
I started it, fortunately there was no rattle, but the air was heavy with the smell of fuel. When I backed it out of the garage, the
white exhaust emerged from the tailpipe again.
I'm afraid to ask "what just happened?" Because it will logically be followed by "how much?"
And.....another OP. Not sure either one was really resolved since no update was posted in either thread. Maybe it needs a valve adjustment and new oem pcv valve since both of those often get overlooked at high miles.
Originally Posted by dkryan
2005 Highlander with 142k well maintained miles.
The timing belt was changed at 96k, as was the pre-tensioner, the idler pulley, the belts, plugs, and the water pump.
Yesterday, I got out of the SUV to get something out of the garage. As I walked by the front-end (the engine was running) I immediately noticed the engine sounded louder than normal.
I popped the hood and isolated the noise to the area of the belts/pulleys (I think). I shut off the engine and checked the belts and tension, all of which was fine.
The "sound" seemed metallic to me and had me thinking "bearing."
I took the SUV to my indy mechanic and he agreed there was a mild but noticeable metallic sound.
Unfortunately, we both agreed the sound seemed to emanate from under the cam cover which is fairly close to the pulleys.
I made an appointment for two weeks from now. He's going to pull the belts and run the engine to see if the noise goes away. If so, that sounds like a cheaper fix.
If the noise remains without the belts on, he wants to remove the cam cover and go from there.
I have not seen any Toyota forum comments concerning any issue involving the cam with this vehicle.
Any thoughts on possible causes?Thanks!
DOH!
Thanks for reminding me, Satin.
The first issue involved my wife starting the SUV and immediately backing out of the garage and shutting it off. When I finished working on the garage door opener, she started it and immediately pulled back into the garage.
Total run time out and in? Maybe 30 seconds.
My ASE buddy said we flooded the cylinders with fuel. Nothing was really burned off, so when I started it a short time later............
No codes or CEL and once I got it out and ran it, no issues.
However, to my second post, Satin.......
......apparently the dumba$$ who installed the timing belt 18 months previous to that date somehow bent the timing cover. The pulley was rubbing ever so slightly against the bent metal. Hence the noise my wife could not here.
Neither issue was fatal, fortunately.
Originally Posted by The Critic
My guess is that your service intervals are too long and the UOAs are not giving you the full story.
More to the story:
Originally Posted by dkryan
My wife's 2005 Highlander with 135k well-maintained miles on it has a problem.
It has run exceedingly well up until this afternoon. When she first started it in the garage, a horrendous rattling sound came from under the hood followed by a white smokescreen from the tailpipe.
She immediately shut it down. I checked under the hood but could find anything that was obviously amiss.
I started it, fortunately there was no rattle, but the air was heavy with the smell of fuel. When I backed it out of the garage, the
white exhaust emerged from the tailpipe again.
I'm afraid to ask "what just happened?" Because it will logically be followed by "how much?"
And.....another OP. Not sure either one was really resolved since no update was posted in either thread. Maybe it needs a valve adjustment and new oem pcv valve since both of those often get overlooked at high miles.
Originally Posted by dkryan
2005 Highlander with 142k well maintained miles.
The timing belt was changed at 96k, as was the pre-tensioner, the idler pulley, the belts, plugs, and the water pump.
Yesterday, I got out of the SUV to get something out of the garage. As I walked by the front-end (the engine was running) I immediately noticed the engine sounded louder than normal.
I popped the hood and isolated the noise to the area of the belts/pulleys (I think). I shut off the engine and checked the belts and tension, all of which was fine.
The "sound" seemed metallic to me and had me thinking "bearing."
I took the SUV to my indy mechanic and he agreed there was a mild but noticeable metallic sound.
Unfortunately, we both agreed the sound seemed to emanate from under the cam cover which is fairly close to the pulleys.
I made an appointment for two weeks from now. He's going to pull the belts and run the engine to see if the noise goes away. If so, that sounds like a cheaper fix.
If the noise remains without the belts on, he wants to remove the cam cover and go from there.
I have not seen any Toyota forum comments concerning any issue involving the cam with this vehicle.
Any thoughts on possible causes?Thanks!
DOH!
Thanks for reminding me, Satin.
The first issue involved my wife starting the SUV and immediately backing out of the garage and shutting it off. When I finished working on the garage door opener, she started it and immediately pulled back into the garage.
Total run time out and in? Maybe 30 seconds.
My ASE buddy said we flooded the cylinders with fuel. Nothing was really burned off, so when I started it a short time later............
No codes or CEL and once I got it out and ran it, no issues.
However, to my second post, Satin.......
......apparently the dumba$$ who installed the timing belt 18 months previous to that date somehow bent the timing cover. The pulley was rubbing ever so slightly against the bent metal. Hence the noise my wife could not here.
Neither issue was fatal, fortunately.
Looks like every top end I've uncovered that ran Mobil1. After questioning XOM they said it was a normal dis-coloration and not varnish. Looks great to me. Thanks for posting.
And one more thing that someone mentioned.
The PCV valve.
It has never been changed. Now I DO maintain my vehicles and I normally change the PCV valve by 100k miles, except for this ride. When I inquired about ordering one from the dealer, the parts guy said they never keep them in inventory because they never change them.
Unfortunately, I let it slide. However, after looking at the valvetrain and not seeing a like-new layout, I suspected the PCV valve, in part. I went to the dealer to order one as I want that part to be OEM.
It screws into the back of the rear valve cover. And I got the same story from the parts manager: "they never have to be changed." I ordered and paid for the part. I just need to go pick it up and change it out.
I know, dealers never change the "lifetime" gear lube and/ or tranny fluid, either.
The PCV valve.
It has never been changed. Now I DO maintain my vehicles and I normally change the PCV valve by 100k miles, except for this ride. When I inquired about ordering one from the dealer, the parts guy said they never keep them in inventory because they never change them.
Unfortunately, I let it slide. However, after looking at the valvetrain and not seeing a like-new layout, I suspected the PCV valve, in part. I went to the dealer to order one as I want that part to be OEM.
It screws into the back of the rear valve cover. And I got the same story from the parts manager: "they never have to be changed." I ordered and paid for the part. I just need to go pick it up and change it out.
I know, dealers never change the "lifetime" gear lube and/ or tranny fluid, either.
Originally Posted by dkryan
The PCV valve.
It screws into the back of the rear valve cover. And I got the same story from the parts manager: "they never have to be changed." I ordered and paid for the part. I just need to go pick it up and change it out.
I recently ordered one for the 05 Matrix via the parts manager at the dealer who had it in stock along with a few other things. The only item he didn't have in stock that he had to order was touch up paint. He said I could pay for the order and pick everything up. Then mail me the paint when it came in, no charge. I asked via email one of the parts employees if I could get online pricing and pick up everything in person to avoid shipping charges. They referred me to the mgr who agreed and now I have a good source for oem parts.
The weird thing with the Matrix and maybe some Corollas is it could have one of two different valves depending on which factory built it. Japan, Canada and CA all had plants that built them. So he needed the vin to determine the correct one.
Sounds like you have everything under control with the Highlander.
The PCV valve.
It screws into the back of the rear valve cover. And I got the same story from the parts manager: "they never have to be changed." I ordered and paid for the part. I just need to go pick it up and change it out.
I recently ordered one for the 05 Matrix via the parts manager at the dealer who had it in stock along with a few other things. The only item he didn't have in stock that he had to order was touch up paint. He said I could pay for the order and pick everything up. Then mail me the paint when it came in, no charge. I asked via email one of the parts employees if I could get online pricing and pick up everything in person to avoid shipping charges. They referred me to the mgr who agreed and now I have a good source for oem parts.
The weird thing with the Matrix and maybe some Corollas is it could have one of two different valves depending on which factory built it. Japan, Canada and CA all had plants that built them. So he needed the vin to determine the correct one.
Sounds like you have everything under control with the Highlander.
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