Geez, how hard is it to pay for even an annual oil change?
Pics, ONE oil change in 45K miles (2015 Kia Optima 2.4)
- Thread starter wemay
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I have a few questions:
1) Was the oil level properly maintained? Or did it run very low or was substantially depleted of oil?
2) What actual failure was experienced that was cause for a new engine?
3) What do the intake air passages look like?
1) Was the oil level properly maintained? Or did it run very low or was substantially depleted of oil?
2) What actual failure was experienced that was cause for a new engine?
3) What do the intake air passages look like?
Did they give her a courtesy car to use while they did the engine replacement?
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
Originally Posted by edyvw
I am maybe missing point, but should not be easier to change oil than download template for receipts, forge them etc?
This.
I guess some people go to great lengths to be dishonest and save a few bucks.
She probably made the receipts after she did her research and found out it may come up.
Originally Posted by edyvw
I am maybe missing point, but should not be easier to change oil than download template for receipts, forge them etc?
This.
I guess some people go to great lengths to be dishonest and save a few bucks.
She probably made the receipts after she did her research and found out it may come up.
I'm sure Kia stuck it to more than a few people so it's good to see them get screwed over.
1st I was thinking "just wow!"
Then, she saved money on oil changes, gets a new engine after a few years, will she continue doing the same or sell it and get top $$ for having an engine with so few miles. Get something else and try the same thing again later down the road.
Then I was back to "just wow!"
Then, thinking as I drive a Hyundai with 2.4L, 162k on the clock, I better stick to my 5k (or less) OCI's because nobody is going to give me anything for free because of neglect. I've hardly done much else to it but at least I do the oil/filter changes. Don't cost that much or take a lot of time. Just wow!
Then, she saved money on oil changes, gets a new engine after a few years, will she continue doing the same or sell it and get top $$ for having an engine with so few miles. Get something else and try the same thing again later down the road.
Then I was back to "just wow!"
Then, thinking as I drive a Hyundai with 2.4L, 162k on the clock, I better stick to my 5k (or less) OCI's because nobody is going to give me anything for free because of neglect. I've hardly done much else to it but at least I do the oil/filter changes. Don't cost that much or take a lot of time. Just wow!
Originally Posted by Errtt
will she continue doing the same or sell it and get top $$ for having an engine with so few miles. Get something else and try the same thing again later down the road.
Depends how dumb she is. I'm sure they told her something along the lines of this being a one time deal and educating her a little bit. If this comes up again corporate will have a record of it and will likely deny any coverage. Unless the engine already has other issues like failing even with normal oil changes as mentioned by others.
will she continue doing the same or sell it and get top $$ for having an engine with so few miles. Get something else and try the same thing again later down the road.
Depends how dumb she is. I'm sure they told her something along the lines of this being a one time deal and educating her a little bit. If this comes up again corporate will have a record of it and will likely deny any coverage. Unless the engine already has other issues like failing even with normal oil changes as mentioned by others.
Obligatory woman driver comment.
I am not familiar with this reputation for not maintaining vehicles in central Maryland.
I am not familiar with this reputation for not maintaining vehicles in central Maryland.
Something seems off here. I think something is getting left out along the way or lost in translation because it makes no sense to ask for proof of maintenance and then ignore lack of/faking it. If you're just going to put an engine in it save everyones time and do it.
I suspect the propensity for various Kia/Hyundai engines to fail has something to do with the decision, but still if you're going to replace it anyway why ask for records?
I suspect the propensity for various Kia/Hyundai engines to fail has something to do with the decision, but still if you're going to replace it anyway why ask for records?
Originally Posted by JustN89
Hopefully this will put some of the "Hyundai/Kia are notorious for weaseling out of warranty work" comments that are posted on here.
I don't think she deserved what she got, but hopefully she will learn from this and take better care of that car.
I was thinking the same thing.
Hopefully this will put some of the "Hyundai/Kia are notorious for weaseling out of warranty work" comments that are posted on here.
I don't think she deserved what she got, but hopefully she will learn from this and take better care of that car.
I was thinking the same thing.
Wow, thank you Weemay -- that's some seriously good oil geek porn!
I imagine there's a good bit to the story that we can't see from our limited perspective (I'm NOT saying weemay is holding back). I don't for a fraction of a second condone such attempted fraud (nor can I stand to think about such wanton abuse of a poor, helpless engine...). I hope some good comes from what obviously started as a very bad situation.
I imagine there's a good bit to the story that we can't see from our limited perspective (I'm NOT saying weemay is holding back). I don't for a fraction of a second condone such attempted fraud (nor can I stand to think about such wanton abuse of a poor, helpless engine...). I hope some good comes from what obviously started as a very bad situation.
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Wow, thank you Weemay -- that's some seriously good oil geek porn!
I imagine there's a good bit to the story that we can't see from our limited perspective (I'm NOT saying weemay is holding back). I don't for a fraction of a second condone such attempted fraud (nor can I stand to think about such wanton abuse of a poor, helpless engine...). I hope some good comes from what obviously started as a very bad situation.
Been a long time since I have seen you post, ekpolk!
Wow, thank you Weemay -- that's some seriously good oil geek porn!
I imagine there's a good bit to the story that we can't see from our limited perspective (I'm NOT saying weemay is holding back). I don't for a fraction of a second condone such attempted fraud (nor can I stand to think about such wanton abuse of a poor, helpless engine...). I hope some good comes from what obviously started as a very bad situation.
Been a long time since I have seen you post, ekpolk!
Originally Posted by ekpolk
... (I'm NOT saying weemay is holding back). ...
Oh me neither... I just don't think he was in possession of all the facts (tech might not have been either) ...
... (I'm NOT saying weemay is holding back). ...
Oh me neither... I just don't think he was in possession of all the facts (tech might not have been either) ...
So if you buy a Korean car and don't do maintenance, lie to the dealership and even try to commit fraud by intentionally producing fake receipts, you STILL make out good.
2019.
Got it.
Do good, live your life like a good person is supposed to, shame on you.
Lie, cheat, deceit, people bend over backwards so you don't bad mouth them.
Nah. I'll take good Karma over bad any day.
2019.
Got it.
Do good, live your life like a good person is supposed to, shame on you.
Lie, cheat, deceit, people bend over backwards so you don't bad mouth them.
Nah. I'll take good Karma over bad any day.
Come on guys. KIA is not going to send their $500/hr attorney to court over charges for attempted fraud. Now depending on the story that the dealer gave KIA there may be something there between those two parties. Afterall why wouldn't KIA just have the dealer clean up the engine as a "goodwill" gesture and if the engine continues to run so be it?
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Originally Posted by 02SE
I saw this numerous times, when I was a Master Tech at a Toyota dealer. People would buy or more often lease say, a Camry, and then NEVER change the oil. 30-50k down the road they would have 'issues'. Unsurprisingly, these were often the so-called sludge prone engines; 1MZ-FE, 5S-FE, etc.
I still think those engines got an undeserved reputation for sludge, when it was mostly severe owner maintenance neglect.
The worst part about neglected maintenance by people who lease is that the manufacturer almost never charges the individual for additional wear-n-tear. It's one of two reason (aftermarket tunes is the other) why I will never buy some models which are used/pre-owned/CPO.
I saw this numerous times, when I was a Master Tech at a Toyota dealer. People would buy or more often lease say, a Camry, and then NEVER change the oil. 30-50k down the road they would have 'issues'. Unsurprisingly, these were often the so-called sludge prone engines; 1MZ-FE, 5S-FE, etc.
I still think those engines got an undeserved reputation for sludge, when it was mostly severe owner maintenance neglect.
The worst part about neglected maintenance by people who lease is that the manufacturer almost never charges the individual for additional wear-n-tear. It's one of two reason (aftermarket tunes is the other) why I will never buy some models which are used/pre-owned/CPO.
One 'documented' oil change. I could document some but not all of the oil changes our Edge has had. I believe most but not all of this 'story'
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Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by dave1251
I do not know what fantasy world where the required maintenance is performed and warranty is denied but do not let anyone else in there.
Wow, do you live under a rock or something?
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3zjhe6/kia_dealership_refusing_to_honor_warranty/
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5vl8k4/kia_is_denying_warranty_trying_to_charge_6700/
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/6b5zp3/2015_kia_optima_30k_miles_engine_failure_warranty/
These reddit threads don't prove anything about Hyundai/Kia trying to weasel out of a reasonable warranty claim.
Thread 1: Customer is claiming to have an oil change every 3k miles, yet is only able to produce "some" of the receipts.
Quote
I tracked down some previous maintenance records which I then provided them and were told that they would be turned into the Kia warranty department for review.
The dealership also claims to have found sludge in the engine (not terribly surprising if the individual only changed the oil as often they have receipts to prove). The easiest course of action would be to ask the dealership to provide those pictures, but they never asked. I wouldn't either, if I knew I didn't change my oil as often as I should've.
Quote
After hearing no response for yet another two weeks, we then called back and were told that it wasn't going to be covered under warranty, despite having provided the proper maintenance records, due to sludge build up in the engine.
Thread 2: Customer's engine seized up shortly after a DIY oil change with Amsoil. Claims to not have every receipt at first, and is only able to produce enough receipts to prove roughly 7500 mile OCIs.
Quote
1st excuse to deny warranty: lack of maintentance receipts. Apparently they don't understand that a lack of receipts does not mean a lack of maintenance. So I was able to scrounge up a few and send them to the service manager at the dealership.
Quote
I have been able to find three more oil receipts, bringing the total to five. The change interval is 7500 miles.
While this may be a bit ticky-tack, the recommended interval is not 7500 miles, but 3750 miles if the consumer falls under the severe service category which most people do.
Quote
3rd excuse: use of non-oem fluids and filter. I use amsoil 5w20, receipts verify this.
Quote
The filter is purolator one, rated for 10k miles, same spring relief pressure as oem, high density synthetic blend material, and is made by MANN who makes the oem filter!
The individual doesn't mention what part of the Amsoil line-up they use, but considering the majority of Amsoil sold is the Signature Series line, this doesn't hold the required certifications as requested in the Owners Manual. They also use an aftermarket oil filter, Purolator, that many cut-and-posts on here would show isn't necessarily are the most reliable/durable oil filters. Was this caused by the oil and/or filter? Probably not, no. However, that does open the door for questions and potentially not honoring a warranty.
Thread 3: Customer drives car until engine oil light comes on. Upon checking, finds oil level so low as to not read on the dipstick. Drives the car again to a Shell station to top-off, after which the engine beings knocking.
Quote
Seemingly out of nowhere the oil light came on. Checked oil and found it to be completely empty. I took the car to a local Shell quick change shop and they added oil. Almost immediately afterwards the engine started producing a a knocking noise.
This person claims to have always kept up with oil changes, however they do not have any receipts for oil changes with the only evidence of previous changes being the sticker in their window from 4k miles ago.
Quote
Ihave always kept up with oil maintenance and the most recent change sticker is still in the windshield from approx 4k miles back.
Maybe unsurprising, warranty work is denied after finding sludge in the engine.
Quote
After apparently finding sludge in the engine, warranty was REJECTED by Kia corporate office.
We can assume this person isn't very particular about car maintenance, as the level dropped to the point the light came on without them ever checking level. I won't necessarily hold this against them as there have been instances where the oil level drops rather precipitously, however it goes beyond that. They drove it after finding the engine dangerously low on fluid, and then again to the dealership after the engine was struggling to even operate, according to their account.
Quote
The engine got progressively worse by the second and barely made it, engine light finally coming on within 10miles of the final destination.
Of all of these instances you posted, the most questionable warranty denial is the instance laid out in thread #2. Having enough receipts to prove 7500 mile OCIs might be enough to get warranty coverage, but when you couple that with potentially using a non-certified oil and an aftermarket filter with a history of failure, you can see why Kia might try to avoid warranty work.
I stand by my post (see below), and support Dave here, that I have yet to see Hyundai/Kia deny a warranty claim where the owner performed maintenance within the requirements of the Owner's Manual. Is Hyundai/Kia perfect when it comes to warranty work? No, not at all. No brand is. However, I think they get a bad reputation on here and elsewhere for stuff that's actually pretty reasonable.
Originally Posted by JustN89
Hopefully this will put some of the "Hyundai/Kia are notorious for weaseling out of warranty work" comments that are posted on here.
I don't think she deserved what she got, but hopefully she will learn from this and take better care of that car.
Originally Posted by dave1251
I do not know what fantasy world where the required maintenance is performed and warranty is denied but do not let anyone else in there.
Wow, do you live under a rock or something?
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/3zjhe6/kia_dealership_refusing_to_honor_warranty/
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5vl8k4/kia_is_denying_warranty_trying_to_charge_6700/
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/6b5zp3/2015_kia_optima_30k_miles_engine_failure_warranty/
These reddit threads don't prove anything about Hyundai/Kia trying to weasel out of a reasonable warranty claim.
Thread 1: Customer is claiming to have an oil change every 3k miles, yet is only able to produce "some" of the receipts.
Quote
I tracked down some previous maintenance records which I then provided them and were told that they would be turned into the Kia warranty department for review.
The dealership also claims to have found sludge in the engine (not terribly surprising if the individual only changed the oil as often they have receipts to prove). The easiest course of action would be to ask the dealership to provide those pictures, but they never asked. I wouldn't either, if I knew I didn't change my oil as often as I should've.
Quote
After hearing no response for yet another two weeks, we then called back and were told that it wasn't going to be covered under warranty, despite having provided the proper maintenance records, due to sludge build up in the engine.
Thread 2: Customer's engine seized up shortly after a DIY oil change with Amsoil. Claims to not have every receipt at first, and is only able to produce enough receipts to prove roughly 7500 mile OCIs.
Quote
1st excuse to deny warranty: lack of maintentance receipts. Apparently they don't understand that a lack of receipts does not mean a lack of maintenance. So I was able to scrounge up a few and send them to the service manager at the dealership.
Quote
I have been able to find three more oil receipts, bringing the total to five. The change interval is 7500 miles.
While this may be a bit ticky-tack, the recommended interval is not 7500 miles, but 3750 miles if the consumer falls under the severe service category which most people do.
Quote
3rd excuse: use of non-oem fluids and filter. I use amsoil 5w20, receipts verify this.
Quote
The filter is purolator one, rated for 10k miles, same spring relief pressure as oem, high density synthetic blend material, and is made by MANN who makes the oem filter!
The individual doesn't mention what part of the Amsoil line-up they use, but considering the majority of Amsoil sold is the Signature Series line, this doesn't hold the required certifications as requested in the Owners Manual. They also use an aftermarket oil filter, Purolator, that many cut-and-posts on here would show isn't necessarily are the most reliable/durable oil filters. Was this caused by the oil and/or filter? Probably not, no. However, that does open the door for questions and potentially not honoring a warranty.
Thread 3: Customer drives car until engine oil light comes on. Upon checking, finds oil level so low as to not read on the dipstick. Drives the car again to a Shell station to top-off, after which the engine beings knocking.
Quote
Seemingly out of nowhere the oil light came on. Checked oil and found it to be completely empty. I took the car to a local Shell quick change shop and they added oil. Almost immediately afterwards the engine started producing a a knocking noise.
This person claims to have always kept up with oil changes, however they do not have any receipts for oil changes with the only evidence of previous changes being the sticker in their window from 4k miles ago.
Quote
Ihave always kept up with oil maintenance and the most recent change sticker is still in the windshield from approx 4k miles back.
Maybe unsurprising, warranty work is denied after finding sludge in the engine.
Quote
After apparently finding sludge in the engine, warranty was REJECTED by Kia corporate office.
We can assume this person isn't very particular about car maintenance, as the level dropped to the point the light came on without them ever checking level. I won't necessarily hold this against them as there have been instances where the oil level drops rather precipitously, however it goes beyond that. They drove it after finding the engine dangerously low on fluid, and then again to the dealership after the engine was struggling to even operate, according to their account.
Quote
The engine got progressively worse by the second and barely made it, engine light finally coming on within 10miles of the final destination.
Of all of these instances you posted, the most questionable warranty denial is the instance laid out in thread #2. Having enough receipts to prove 7500 mile OCIs might be enough to get warranty coverage, but when you couple that with potentially using a non-certified oil and an aftermarket filter with a history of failure, you can see why Kia might try to avoid warranty work.
I stand by my post (see below), and support Dave here, that I have yet to see Hyundai/Kia deny a warranty claim where the owner performed maintenance within the requirements of the Owner's Manual. Is Hyundai/Kia perfect when it comes to warranty work? No, not at all. No brand is. However, I think they get a bad reputation on here and elsewhere for stuff that's actually pretty reasonable.
Originally Posted by JustN89
Hopefully this will put some of the "Hyundai/Kia are notorious for weaseling out of warranty work" comments that are posted on here.
I don't think she deserved what she got, but hopefully she will learn from this and take better care of that car.
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