PP 0W-20 vs PP HM 0W-20 - Difference in VI

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The oil with both the lower pour point, the higher viscosity at 100C and lower MRV viscosity at -40C has the larger Viscosity Index. That jives with my understanding of VI, the closer the oil stays to its running temp viscosity at the extremes, the higher the VI.

The kicker is that CCS Viscosity is a bit backwards between the two.
 
Originally Posted by HangFire
The oil with both the lower pour point, the higher viscosity at 100C and lower MRV viscosity at -40C has the larger Viscosity Index. That jives with my understanding of VI, the closer the oil stays to its running temp viscosity at the extremes, the higher the VI.

The kicker is that CCS Viscosity is a bit backwards between the two.


VI is simply calculated based on 40C and 100C visc. The higher, the less difference there is between those two temperatures; the less the viscosity changes with temperature. This is artificially manipulated using polymer VII's, which improve the VI of the base oil blends. This can be extrapolated both up and down to a degree, but visc calcs tend to lose accuracy much below 0C.

Now, you can use a heavier base oil blend with a reasonably high VI and require less VII to hit your target viscosity than a lighter base oil blend, which will in turn have a higher VI, because you used more VII.

This is consistent with your observations as to what's transpiring here, as the lighter base oil blend, padded with polymer to hit its 100C visc target, assuming similarly-based lubricants (IE, one isn't PAO, the other Group III), will have a lower pour point, lower MRV and higher VI.

Where a wrench gets thrown into these comparisons is when the two lubricants are quite differently based. M1 EP 0w-20 for example, being majority PAO, will have a lower pour point (-54C) than both of them, and likely better CCS and MRV numbers, despite having a VI of 173. In fact, if you look at M1 AFE 0w-20, which has less PAO in it than the EP product, but the same VI, it has an MRV of only 9,200cP, basically half of what it is for these GTL-based lubes.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
VI is simply calculated based on 40C and 100C visc. The higher, the less difference there is between those two temperatures; the less the viscosity changes with temperature.


I thought the lower the VI, the less viscosity difference. Am I wrong? I always thought lower is better
 
Originally Posted by Purpfox
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28956/lubricant-viscosity-index

good read explaining it

But typicaly the oil will be mores stable across various temp ranges


High viscosity index is a good thing...in base oils, it does exactly that makes an oil "less wrong" at both lower and higher temperatures than the design point.

However, in the 60s, they found that they could artificially change the viscosity index with polymers (you know like those semi translucent pencil erasers, polyisobutylene) that when dissolved in oil would "coil up" when cold, and become long fibrous and stringy when hot...they gave an oil an artificially high viscosity index.

However there were drawbacks...it was at one stage worked out that the oils didn't protect as well as those that had no viscosity improvers for the same kinematic viscosity...research resulted in developing the HTHS (High Temperature High Shear viscosity), to determine the protection that the oil offered to bearings.

The other downfall was that these polymers get "chopped up", reducing both the viscosity, AND the HTHS...however it reduces HTHS by about half the percentage change in the KV100.

There are definite advantages to high "natural" viscosity index...and there are advantages to high finished viscosity index oils as well...as log as they are shear stable.
 
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
VI is simply calculated based on 40C and 100C visc. The higher, the less difference there is between those two temperatures; the less the viscosity changes with temperature.


I thought the lower the VI, the less viscosity difference. Am I wrong? I always thought lower is better


Like OVERKILL said, the higher the vi, the less vis diff.
The lower the vi, the more vis diff.
Lower vi in general have less vii and that's good.
Syn with good base oil can have a higher natural vi which is better than a high vi induced by higher vii for example with dino or lower grade base oil.
 
Which leads me to these two oils
The HM is little denser, has a lower viscosity index, and for any given HTHS (assume 2.6, as it's silly having a "robust" economy oil) Much higher flash point.

So they chose thicker base oils, less VII, and will drop a poofteenth of economy for the sake of lower deposits and as a result, better shear stability.

Originally Posted by The Critic
I was comparing the spec sheet of PP 0W-20 and PP HM 0W-20. In doing so, I noticed that PP HM has a Viscosity Index of 160 while PP has a Viscosity Index of 182. The Kinematic Viscosity for both products are similar.

What does this really mean?

PP:
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/prod...155c6a1f4fd2c86ca8/PNZ_API_Plat_0W20.pdf

PP HM:
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/prod...c091419fe0614c9c/PNZ_API_PlatHM_0W20.pdf
 
Shannow,
Generally speaking, isn't it true that if an oil meets your temp spec. you shouldn't necessarily chase a higher vi oil? Even though a higher vi oil will be "less wrong" at both temp range, it will have more vii which is a bad thing.
At what point would you draw the line between chasing a flatter vis curve vs. having lower vii?
 
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