I know that the fuel economy of some small SUVs is starting to be on par with some sedans, but not quite. It is hard to get a 4WD/AWD vehicle that gets the same fuel economy as a sedan. With many manufacturers dropping sedans from their vehicle lineups, what does this do to their CAFE averages? How do they hope to meat the average required fuel economy with no sedans? And how do they hope to respond to rising CAFE standards?
CAFE standards
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Given that the current administration has rolled back some of these CAFE regulations, it's probably no longer a big issue for them.
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Given that the current administration has rolled back some of these CAFE regulations, it's probably no longer a big issue for them.
The automakers did not want the standards rolled back. If they were they would be forced to go back to having a Calif emissions vehicle and one for the other 49 states. They don't like that.
Given that the current administration has rolled back some of these CAFE regulations, it's probably no longer a big issue for them.
The automakers did not want the standards rolled back. If they were they would be forced to go back to having a Calif emissions vehicle and one for the other 49 states. They don't like that.
Originally Posted by Donald
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Given that the current administration has rolled back some of these CAFE regulations, it's probably no longer a big issue for them.
The automakers did not want the standards rolled back. If they were they would be forced to go back to having a Calif emissions vehicle and one for the other 49 states. They don't like that.
As long as the standards are not contradictory, they can still have one standard, and meet the toughest one.
I.E. if CA standards were tougher than FED, just build all cars to meet CA CARB standards and they are done.
Just because a FED standard is X doesn't mean the car makers can't build a vehicle that is better than the standards.
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Given that the current administration has rolled back some of these CAFE regulations, it's probably no longer a big issue for them.
The automakers did not want the standards rolled back. If they were they would be forced to go back to having a Calif emissions vehicle and one for the other 49 states. They don't like that.
As long as the standards are not contradictory, they can still have one standard, and meet the toughest one.
I.E. if CA standards were tougher than FED, just build all cars to meet CA CARB standards and they are done.
Just because a FED standard is X doesn't mean the car makers can't build a vehicle that is better than the standards.
Originally Posted by otis24
I know that the fuel economy of some small SUVs is starting to be on par with some sedans, but not quite. It is hard to get a 4WD/AWD vehicle that gets the same fuel economy as a sedan. With many manufacturers dropping sedans from their vehicle lineups, what does this do to their CAFE averages? How do they hope to meat the average required fuel economy with no sedans? And how do they hope to respond to rising CAFE standards?
Actually making crossovers compared to sedans improves their cafe numbers. Crossovers are classified as "trucks" and therefore have separate fuel economy targets compared to sedans. They are allowed about 10 mpg lower on trucks as cars. Sedans that are not hybrids may cease to exist. Longer wheelbase vehicles are also allowed lower mpg. Manmade rules have unintended consequences and the automakers need to both obey the rules and survive. When you look at where the cafe numbers are headed it makes a lot of sense not to bother with cars.
I know that the fuel economy of some small SUVs is starting to be on par with some sedans, but not quite. It is hard to get a 4WD/AWD vehicle that gets the same fuel economy as a sedan. With many manufacturers dropping sedans from their vehicle lineups, what does this do to their CAFE averages? How do they hope to meat the average required fuel economy with no sedans? And how do they hope to respond to rising CAFE standards?
Actually making crossovers compared to sedans improves their cafe numbers. Crossovers are classified as "trucks" and therefore have separate fuel economy targets compared to sedans. They are allowed about 10 mpg lower on trucks as cars. Sedans that are not hybrids may cease to exist. Longer wheelbase vehicles are also allowed lower mpg. Manmade rules have unintended consequences and the automakers need to both obey the rules and survive. When you look at where the cafe numbers are headed it makes a lot of sense not to bother with cars.
I would guess that to the extent that this is viewed as a 2020 or later issue and to whatever extent electric/hybrid vehicles and favorable rules/standards make up the brand's offering would tell you how susceptible they are to a whipsaw regulatory environment.
I'd agree that automakers don't want to have this issue drop off the radar if ( like Donald says ) there's an environment where there are 49/1 or 45/5 standards and the additional costs and headaches involved. Automakers have historically done some stupid things but I'm not sure this would be one of them if the direction has already been established. You'd think that automakers would almost have to defer to single standard however that's reached...and they're smart enough not to react to a momentary "decree" that might change in 2020.
I'd agree that automakers don't want to have this issue drop off the radar if ( like Donald says ) there's an environment where there are 49/1 or 45/5 standards and the additional costs and headaches involved. Automakers have historically done some stupid things but I'm not sure this would be one of them if the direction has already been established. You'd think that automakers would almost have to defer to single standard however that's reached...and they're smart enough not to react to a momentary "decree" that might change in 2020.
When you have the 2019 RAV4 Hybrid getting these kind of fuel economy numbers, 41/37/39 mpg combined, it has exceeded most sedans in FE.
Even the base 4 cyl. LE AWD gets 26/33/29 mpg combined.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2019-toyota-rav4-first-review/2100005896/
Even the base 4 cyl. LE AWD gets 26/33/29 mpg combined.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/2019-toyota-rav4-first-review/2100005896/
29 or 39 is good. It's crazy that when you look at the 2025 cafe standards you cannot make cars even with 39mpg but you can make a medium light truck with 39.9 mpg. So you can see where they are headed.
small cars 61.1
medium cars 51.7
large cars 45.6
small light truck 50.4
medium light truck 39.9
large light truck 30.2
small cars 61.1
medium cars 51.7
large cars 45.6
small light truck 50.4
medium light truck 39.9
large light truck 30.2
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Originally Posted by Donald
The automakers did not want the standards rolled back. If they were they would be forced to go back to having a Calif emissions vehicle and one for the other 49 states. They don't like that.
In WA State, all cars from 2009 and newer MUST have Calif emissions. So there may be other states out there like this.
The automakers did not want the standards rolled back. If they were they would be forced to go back to having a Calif emissions vehicle and one for the other 49 states. They don't like that.
In WA State, all cars from 2009 and newer MUST have Calif emissions. So there may be other states out there like this.
Originally Posted by Kage860
Actually making crossovers compared to sedans improves their cafe numbers. Crossovers are classified as "trucks" and therefore have separate fuel economy targets compared to sedans. They are allowed about 10 mpg lower on trucks as cars. Sedans that are not hybrids may cease to exist. Longer wheelbase vehicles are also allowed lower mpg. Manmade rules have unintended consequences and the automakers need to both obey the rules and survive. When you look at where the cafe numbers are headed it makes a lot of sense not to bother with cars.
Exactly. My son's 2015 Escape is listed as Ford Trucks- Escape by the insurance company and the registration.
Actually making crossovers compared to sedans improves their cafe numbers. Crossovers are classified as "trucks" and therefore have separate fuel economy targets compared to sedans. They are allowed about 10 mpg lower on trucks as cars. Sedans that are not hybrids may cease to exist. Longer wheelbase vehicles are also allowed lower mpg. Manmade rules have unintended consequences and the automakers need to both obey the rules and survive. When you look at where the cafe numbers are headed it makes a lot of sense not to bother with cars.
Exactly. My son's 2015 Escape is listed as Ford Trucks- Escape by the insurance company and the registration.
So, if I live in a state that has emissions standards that are not Kalifornia compliant, and I move to Kalifornia, do I have to pay to have my vehicle upgraded to meet Kalifornia emissions standards?
Originally Posted by otis24
So, if I live in a state that has emissions standards that are not Kalifornia compliant, and I move to Kalifornia, do I have to pay to have my vehicle upgraded to meet Kalifornia emissions standards?
Not as long as you have more than 7,500 miles on the car.
So, if I live in a state that has emissions standards that are not Kalifornia compliant, and I move to Kalifornia, do I have to pay to have my vehicle upgraded to meet Kalifornia emissions standards?
Not as long as you have more than 7,500 miles on the car.
Originally Posted by otis24
So, if I live in a state that has emissions standards that are not Kalifornia compliant, and I move to Kalifornia, do I have to pay to have my vehicle upgraded to meet Kalifornia emissions standards?
Yes, or proove that it does meet california standards by obtaining a compliance letter from the manufacturer stating it meets california emissions.
So, if I live in a state that has emissions standards that are not Kalifornia compliant, and I move to Kalifornia, do I have to pay to have my vehicle upgraded to meet Kalifornia emissions standards?
Yes, or proove that it does meet california standards by obtaining a compliance letter from the manufacturer stating it meets california emissions.
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Ok, had to look it up. Maybe I'm wrong on the 7,500 mile thing.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29
If you had the car registered to your name in another state and then you move, then I guess it can be registered without any modifications, but I don't know how it will pass emission test. When I did my cars, they specifically looked at the emission stickers to see if they were California compliant.
Originally Posted by supton
That would be weird--that you could register but then never pass inspection.
But then again, maybe it's normal for California logic...
Didn't realize you relocated to CA. Should I congratulate you, or offer sympathies?
Coming from Ontario Canada, it was a lateral move
That would be weird--that you could register but then never pass inspection.
But then again, maybe it's normal for California logic...
Didn't realize you relocated to CA. Should I congratulate you, or offer sympathies?
Coming from Ontario Canada, it was a lateral move
Originally Posted by KrisZ
If you had the car registered to your name in another state and then you move, then I guess it can be registered without any modifications, but I don't know how it will pass emission test. When I did my cars, they specifically looked at the emission stickers to see if they were California compliant.
They have to be with <7500 miles. If over, they simply need to know which standard to test it to. (Surprisingly, my Vic is a 49-state car.)
If you had the car registered to your name in another state and then you move, then I guess it can be registered without any modifications, but I don't know how it will pass emission test. When I did my cars, they specifically looked at the emission stickers to see if they were California compliant.
They have to be with <7500 miles. If over, they simply need to know which standard to test it to. (Surprisingly, my Vic is a 49-state car.)
No, didn't move to Kalifornia. Expecting subzero temps tomorrow. Moving some place warmer would be tempting!!!!! Just a hypothetical question.
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