EV Future

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I'll read the article later as I have to go but two things:
1) Yes, the infrastructure for charging stations etc. will be a challenge.
2) Don't sweat fashioning the road taxes for EV's. They'll find a way.
 
For EV to work and make a significant impact, tax credits have worked, but the Government needs to get involved building charging stations first starting in affluent populated areas, along major highways, certain cities such as Washington DC, NYC, San Francisco, LA, and popular vacation designations including National Parks.
 
For EVs to be really effective, we need solar and wind power; basically switch away from coal as the source of electric power.
I am having solar installed and will get a 30% tax credit on the project, which includes a new roof.
Electric cars are in their infancy (including infrastructure); I suggest we think in 10, 20, 50 year plans.

Certainly Elon Musk has taken on the leadership role.
 
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Call me crazy but we have a great infrastructure to move fuel. Why not install gensets at large refueling stations? If need be, put in a battery pack--during off-peak hours, the generator(s) can either shutdown and the battery pack charge vehicles. Or idle back and charge the battery pack. Not quite the efficiency that a large power plant can hit, but, since it's now a stationary engine one can have all sorts of efficiency tricks and then all sorts of emission scrubbing.

Won't be a fix for all places, I know. But some of the large rest stops? Why not?
 
When EV cars is normal in EU its takes about 20 years for Soviet state of Finland
get to ev cars if you look at the infrastructure.
Car politics its just up-side-down overhere. All they do is make your living a hard has a car owner.
Tax tax tax.
 
It's possible that Big Trucks aks 18 wheelers, and the commercial trucks are going to be the ones to create the infrastructure for the cars.
 
In the last issue of the Economist, a letter by a Prof suggested that there was a decent alternative, synthetic HC. By that he meant hydrocarbons made from CO2 extracted from the atmosphere and reused in their current forms. If the process is powered by renewables, it becomes carbon neutral.

His point was that although the fuel would be more expensive than today, it would employ all the existing infrastructure and the support services in place for the ICE. Makes sense to me. And any spare capacity built into such a plant could be used to draw down CO2 for sequester
smile.gif


So, thinking along those lines, I see a dual path ahead. ICE's living for much longer than the eco-types suppose, especially for places where charging is not going to happen easily. And EV's for folks in higher density locals ... That leaves many of the jobs we already have in place, and adds EV technicians to the mix creating even more new jobs. Win-win
smile.gif
 
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I don't get how you can pull CO2 from the air and reuse. I mean, it happens all the time--in the plant kingdom. But that works because plants get their energy from the sun, and are extracting the carbon to build themselves up.

I'm no chemist but I thought CO2 was essentially a low energy state for, well, the matter at hand. To separate and make new fuel, you'll expend fuel to do so.
 
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
When EV cars is normal in EU its takes about 20 years for Soviet state of Finland
get to ev cars if you look at the infrastructure.
Car politics its just up-side-down overhere. All they do is make your living a hard has a car owner.
Tax tax tax.

*hand rubbing caricature*

Isn't that what it's all about? Increasing the taxation burden incrementally and perpetually, lowering the standard of living using environmental fear backed by consumer ignorance, with the EU's annexation of Europe into a cost-of-living nightmare as the goal. Using "road-to-[censored]" tricks (paved with gold and good intentions ofc) as the trojan horses for such policy and outcomes... The EV MANDATE (not nessecarily EVs themsleves) are a solution to a staged, foisted red-herring problem.
 
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
CO2 removal can be done, but it will take massive amounts of solar to do so. Or hydro, wind, thermal, or any number of expensive technologies.

Ah, so the idea is to get the energy from renewable resources.

Wonder what the ROI is. I get that solar is free, err, well it is after you pay for the cells.

Me wonders if it'd just be easier to take the renewable energy, convert to electricity instead. Not sure which has less conversion losses.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
For EVs to be really effective, we need solar and wind power; basically switch away from coal as the source of electric power.
I am having solar installed and will get a 30% tax credit on the project, which includes a new roof.
Electric cars are in their infancy (including infrastructure); I suggest we think in 10, 20, 50 year plans.

Certainly Elon Musk has taken on the leadership role.


The energy return on investment for solar is around 3...means that you get 3 times the amount of energy out of the panel as went into making it...then it's toxic landfill...that's neither efficient or green.

Then put it into a battery (so that you can use it later), and that drops to 1.8 to 2...that's really a very poor use of resources...lithium battery recycling loses the lithium to cement these days, so incredibly wasteful.

Then lose 20% of your electrons in battery a, charging battery b, the concept becomes farcical.

Now before anyone jumps as me not seeing what's available in the future, we are just about maxed out on the efficiency of a single layer solar cell...and there's only so many watts per square meter hitting the ground.

Solar -> battery -> EV utopia is a naive madman's dream (and musk fits that perfectly). ..unless he's a Charlatan, which I can work with also.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
For EVs to be really effective, we need solar and wind power; basically switch away from coal as the source of electric power.
I am having solar installed and will get a 30% tax credit on the project, which includes a new roof.
Electric cars are in their infancy (including infrastructure); I suggest we think in 10, 20, 50 year plans.

Certainly Elon Musk has taken on the leadership role.


The energy return on investment for solar is around 3...means that you get 3 times the amount of energy out of the panel as went into making it...then it's toxic landfill...that's neither efficient or green.

Then put it into a battery (so that you can use it later), and that drops to 1.8 to 2...that's really a very poor use of resources...lithium battery recycling loses the lithium to cement these days, so incredibly wasteful.

Then lose 20% of your electrons in battery a, charging battery b, the concept becomes farcical.

Now before anyone jumps as me not seeing what's available in the future, we are just about maxed out on the efficiency of a single layer solar cell...and there's only so many watts per square meter hitting the ground.

Solar -> battery -> EV utopia is a naive madman's dream (and musk fits that perfectly). ..unless he's a Charlatan, which I can work with also.

Current numbers are about 4 years for production energy vs 30 years panel life; with production processes improving.
Yes, there is a lot of work to do around creation (like use of coal) to disposal; this is an emerging technology.
But calling this technology things like madman's dream or charlatan is just wrong.

solar-energy-myths-facts
 
I'm hearing a lot of fantasy here. The infrastructure will happen when it is someones economic best interest to do so. Ignoring or lying to oneself about the underlying economics to force a preconceived outcome is a personal problem. Using governmental power to force that outcome is criminal. Freedom means that we each get to choose what makes sense and if it does no one will need to be forced as it will be a stampede.
 
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