1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start

[WyrTwister]

Has the fuel filter been replaced ? Can you remove the filter and attach a rubber hose to the line from the tank . And turn the ignition / fule pump on & see how much fuel is pumped ?

Where is it located ?

Does the fuel system have a place ( like a Schrader valve ) that you can check fuel pressure ?

 

[Gito]

Won't let me edit so let me re-post but with corrections


Update:

Replaced fuel filter and noticed that the check engine light would go away a few seconds after turning ignition (not cranking). The car started fine each time and no check engine delay was observed.

We wanted to see if it would act up in rainy weather so we waited for another rainy day.

Rained last week and so we tried starting the car like normal and without paying attention to Check Engine Light. It started fine.

As the day went on and the rain continued throughout the day we decided to try to start the car again and the car would only crank and NOT start. It was then that we observed a permanent check engine light when just turning on ignition (without trying to crank or start).
We decided to buy a new main relay (Genuine part by Mitsuba) and we replaced it this morning.

We tried starting the car under cool weather (no rain) and it would only crank and not start. We noticed that the check engine light does NOT turn off after a few seconds of turning the ignition. The check engine light stays on.

We now notice that the fuel pump whirl sound is not heard when turning on the ignition (without starting car). Since we CANNOT hear the fuel pump we decided to check for fuel pressure at the fuel filter. We removed the fuel line going to the fuel filter and no fuel came out when cranking car.

Again, no fuel pump whirl sound that can be heard when turning ignition (not trying to start or crank).


We are wondering if it's a fuel pump issue (heard it's rare) or the ECU (mentioned by forum member earlier).

What can we do next?

Any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[Popsy]

See if the fuel pump is getting current first.

Edit : already checked maybe?

 

[Gito]

Update:

Car finally started later on the day after turning ignition (not starting car) and waiting for the check engine light to turn off.

Took about 1 minute for the check engine light to go away and heard the the fuel pump whirl just before car started.

Please advise

 

[Gito]

Update:
Car not starting today due to rain and check engine light not turning off when turning ignition (not trying to start).

Trying to figure out if its the ECM since the main relay was just replaced.

Please advise

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Sounds like the main relay under the driver's side dash; it's a common problem with Hondas. I just had this problem this summer. The car would turn but not start in high humidity. When the car won't start, tap on the main relay a few times and it will probably start; the points crack over time. Resolder or buy and install a new relay.


+1 on this.i would check this first.

 

[Gito]

Originally Posted by JC1
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Sounds like the main relay under the driver's side dash; it's a common problem with Hondas. I just had this problem this summer. The car would turn but not start in high humidity. When the car won't start, tap on the main relay a few times and it will probably start; the points crack over time. Resolder or buy and install a new relay.


+1 on this.i would check this first.



We mentioned above that we replaced the main relay and we are still having the same issues.

 

[mk378]

When you know the main relay is good, this problem is the ECU. It is one of the more common ways they fail.

You may be able to rebuild ECU with new capacitors.

 

[clinebarger]

I would start with checking the Inputs & Outputs at the Main Relay.....Using either a Power Probe or a Incandescent Test Light.

Terminal 1. Green/Yellow wire......Fuel Pump Control, The ECM provides a Ground on this circuit for Fuel Pump Relay coil control.
Terminal 2. Blue/White wire..........Crank Voltage Input, Provides Power with starter engaged.
Terminal 4. Yellow/Green wire......Fuel Pump Output, Provides Power to the Fuel Pump.

Terminal 3. Black Wire..................Ground for PFI Relay Coil.
Terminal 5. Black/Yellow wire........Ignition Power for PFI Relay Coil (FP Power also comes from this source)
Terminal 6. Yellow/Black wire........Output too ECM, Power to turn-on the ECM.
Terminal 7. Yellow/White wire........Battery Power PFI Relay.

See if your getting a Ground at Terminal #1 at the same time the check engine lamp is illuminated!

 

[Gito]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
I would start with checking the Inputs & Outputs at the Main Relay.....Using either a Power Probe or a Incandescent Test Light.

Terminal 1. Green/Yellow wire......Fuel Pump Control, The ECM provides a Ground on this circuit for Fuel Pump Relay coil control.
Terminal 2. Blue/White wire..........Crank Voltage Input, Provides Power with starter engaged.
Terminal 4. Yellow/Green wire......Fuel Pump Output, Provides Power to the Fuel Pump.

Terminal 3. Black Wire..................Ground for PFI Relay Coil.
Terminal 5. Black/Yellow wire........Ignition Power for PFI Relay Coil (FP Power also comes from this source)
Terminal 6. Yellow/Black wire........Output too ECM, Power to turn-on the ECM.
Terminal 7. Yellow/White wire........Battery Power PFI Relay.

See if your getting a Ground at Terminal #1 at the same time the check engine lamp is illuminated!

Going to need some help here
Are we checking the connector to the main relay and the main relay?
Are there any steps that we can follow?

Please advise

 

[clinebarger]

Test with the Main Relay connected to the connector & harness. Use the tip of the test light to back-probe the connector.
To test for Ground....Hook the test light lead to B+.
To test for Power......Hook the test light lead to B-.

Start with Terminal #1-Green/Yellow......It should be grounded while Priming-Cranking-Running, If no ground is present here at these conditions.....Suspect a broke wire/bad connection at the ECM connector/faulty ECM.

 

[Gito]

Update

Friend decided to remove the ECU and ship it to a repair facility.
The facility found 17 leaky capacitors.

The ECU was reinstalled and car started fine this morning under normal weather conditions (cold morning).

Around lunch time, friend went to go start the car and the car hesitated to start. It would crank and crank and did not start.
He waited about a minute before trying to start the car again and noticed that the check engine light was staying on for more than a couple of seconds.
He waited for the check engine light to turn off and then the car started right up.

Later during the day he removed the fuse to the ECU just to see if that would reset something.

We hope that there are no grounding issues.

We will update how the car starts tomorrow.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[Gito]

Had trouble starting car yesterday under normal daytime weather conditions (mid 60's deg F with no rain).
When turning the ignition but not starting the car, the check engine light was on for at least 15 seconds before turning off. Car started right away after engine light went off.

Could aftermarket spark plug wires and or an aftermarket distributor cap/rotor cause a delay on the check engine light to turn off?

Do we have a faulty ignition switch?