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When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? #4977072 01/12/19 02:49 PM
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Corollaman Offline OP
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I just noticed at Wal-Mart the regular fram extra guard (3.77) now had a red silcone anti drain back valve. I think that's the cheapest filter I've seen one on. Anyone using them?

Last edited by Corollaman; 01/12/19 02:49 PM.
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977076 01/12/19 02:56 PM
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maxdustington Online Content
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I believe it was during 2018. One of the few cheapies that has one.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 210k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977082 01/12/19 03:05 PM
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Mainia Offline
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Who even looks at those to find out?

Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977103 01/12/19 03:34 PM
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It's a change we started hearing about maybe 6 months ago?

A silicone ADBV is actually a pretty cheap part to make, and really shouldn't be a "premium feature"


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977118 01/12/19 03:44 PM
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I'm still on the fence about the difference between silicone and nitrile, especially apps that mount filter down. Baldwin, Donaldson, and a couple other very well regarded filter makers use nitrile. Considering the difference is merely pennies, and those who use these filters depend on the quality of the item, you'd think that if it was actually necessary the manufacturers would make the change and charge a nickel more. Just my 2 cents.

Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977131 01/12/19 03:52 PM
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I googled around a bit and found this interesting general nitrile/silicone comparison...
https://jehbco.com.au/silicone-vs-nitrile/
One thing that caught my eye is that silicone is listed as not being compatible with hydrocarbon fuels...would this be an issue with fuel dilution in engines?
Nitrile is shown as only being good up to 250F, which I imagine might be seen in cars used for racing...the highest I think I have seen was just under 220F.

I am not qualified to discuss the merits of this comparison, but maybe it can stimulate some discussion. I was surprised to see that nitrile can work down to lower temps than silicone, as I thought cold performance was a special strength of the latter.


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977183 01/12/19 04:53 PM
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That's the document I referenced as well to form my opinion.

Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977200 01/12/19 05:12 PM
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maxdustington Online Content
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Quote
Both materials are resistant to a range of chemicals. Nitrile has excellent resistance to hydrocarbon fuels and oils, making it ideal for automotive fuel applications. Formulations of nitrile containing phthalate plasticizers cannot be used with food or children’s toys. Silicone, on the other hand, is food grade and is often used in food and water processing equipment. For any application, it is important to check that the elastomer is resistant to the chemicals it will come into contact with.
I think they are trying to encourage the use of nitrile on fuel lines, rather than dissuade using it on ADBVs. That article does make the point that a silicone ADBV could be more effective at low temperatures.


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977244 01/12/19 06:17 PM
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I am surprised all missed the removal of the bypass filter screen on the Tough Guard filters.


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4977365 01/12/19 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I googled around a bit and found this interesting general nitrile/silicone comparison...
https://jehbco.com.au/silicone-vs-nitrile/
One thing that caught my eye is that silicone is listed as not being compatible with hydrocarbon fuels...would this be an issue with fuel dilution in engines?
Nitrile is shown as only being good up to 250F, which I imagine might be seen in cars used for racing...the highest I think I have seen was just under 220F.

I am not qualified to discuss the merits of this comparison, but maybe it can stimulate some discussion. I was surprised to see that nitrile can work down to lower temps than silicone, as I thought cold performance was a special strength of the latter.

Thanks for the good article.

For oil filter application, the preferred material choice for the ADBV is silicone. Silicone does not degrade over time like nitrile does. By observation, some of the nitrile ADBVs are very hard on dissection. The silicone ADBVs remain nice and pliable.

The -50C spec more than covers the oils useful starting temperature. CCS is specified at -35C for the 0W/xx oils and -30C for 5W/xx oils.

WRT fuel dilution, I don’t have this issue. It would be interesting to know if 5-10% would create an issue with a silicone ADBV. Maybe someone with fuel dilution issues can comment. smile


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: maxdustington] #4977366 01/12/19 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by maxdustington
Quote
Both materials are resistant to a range of chemicals. Nitrile has excellent resistance to hydrocarbon fuels and oils, making it ideal for automotive fuel applications. Formulations of nitrile containing phthalate plasticizers cannot be used with food or children’s toys. Silicone, on the other hand, is food grade and is often used in food and water processing equipment. For any application, it is important to check that the elastomer is resistant to the chemicals it will come into contact with.
I think they are trying to encourage the use of nitrile on fuel lines, rather than dissuade using it on ADBVs. That article does make the point that a silicone ADBV could be more effective at low temperatures.


Nitrile swells in gasoline. An fkm rubber(Viton) would be a better option.


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: WellOiled] #4977401 01/12/19 09:22 PM
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bbhero Online Content
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Originally Posted by WellOiled
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I googled around a bit and found this interesting general nitrile/silicone comparison...
https://jehbco.com.au/silicone-vs-nitrile/
One thing that caught my eye is that silicone is listed as not being compatible with hydrocarbon fuels...would this be an issue with fuel dilution in engines?
Nitrile is shown as only being good up to 250F, which I imagine might be seen in cars used for racing...the highest I think I have seen was just under 220F.

I am not qualified to discuss the merits of this comparison, but maybe it can stimulate some discussion. I was surprised to see that nitrile can work down to lower temps than silicone, as I thought cold performance was a special strength of the latter.

Thanks for the good article.

For oil filter application, the preferred material choice for the ADBV is silicone. Silicone does not degrade over time like nitrile does. By observation, some of the nitrile ADBVs are very hard on dissection. The silicone ADBVs remain nice and pliable.

The -50C spec more than covers the oils useful starting temperature. CCS is specified at -35C for the 0W/xx oils and -30C for 5W/xx oils.

WRT fuel dilution, I don’t have this issue. It would be interesting to know if 5-10% would create an issue with a silicone ADBV. Maybe someone with fuel dilution issues can comment. smile



^^^^^

Well said. Silicone holds up to 230°C vs much lower for nitrile at 120°C. This may well be why nitrile hardens more than silicone after use in a oil filter.
Especially after longer runs above 10k miles and higher.

Last edited by bbhero; 01/12/19 09:23 PM.

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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977460 01/12/19 10:04 PM
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Exactly.


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: CT8] #4977476 01/12/19 10:26 PM
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blupupher Offline
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Originally Posted by CT8
I am surprised all missed the removal of the bypass filter screen on the Tough Guard filters.

That has been gone for probably a decade.
Neat option though.


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Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977500 01/12/19 10:50 PM
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Yeah I'm using them. The PH8316 for the Zetec, and a PH7317 which is basically an A02

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