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When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? #4977072
01/12/19 02:49 PM
01/12/19 02:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 299
Wa
Corollaman Offline OP
Corollaman  Offline OP

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 299
Wa
I just noticed at Wal-Mart the regular fram extra guard (3.77) now had a red silcone anti drain back valve. I think that's the cheapest filter I've seen one on. Anyone using them?

Last edited by Corollaman; 01/12/19 02:49 PM.
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977076
01/12/19 02:56 PM
01/12/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,546
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,546
VW Fanboy Island
I believe it was during 2018. One of the few cheapies that has one.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 205k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977082
01/12/19 03:05 PM
01/12/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 435
Upper midwest
Mainia Online happy
Mainia  Online Happy

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 435
Upper midwest
Who even looks at those to find out?

Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977103
01/12/19 03:34 PM
01/12/19 03:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,030
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 8,030
Waco, TX
It's a change we started hearing about maybe 6 months ago?

A silicone ADBV is actually a pretty cheap part to make, and really shouldn't be a "premium feature"


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977118
01/12/19 03:44 PM
01/12/19 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,458
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,458
The land of USA-made Subies!
I'm still on the fence about the difference between silicone and nitrile, especially apps that mount filter down. Baldwin, Donaldson, and a couple other very well regarded filter makers use nitrile. Considering the difference is merely pennies, and those who use these filters depend on the quality of the item, you'd think that if it was actually necessary the manufacturers would make the change and charge a nickel more. Just my 2 cents.

Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977131
01/12/19 03:52 PM
01/12/19 03:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,966
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,966
New England
I googled around a bit and found this interesting general nitrile/silicone comparison...
https://jehbco.com.au/silicone-vs-nitrile/
One thing that caught my eye is that silicone is listed as not being compatible with hydrocarbon fuels...would this be an issue with fuel dilution in engines?
Nitrile is shown as only being good up to 250F, which I imagine might be seen in cars used for racing...the highest I think I have seen was just under 220F.

I am not qualified to discuss the merits of this comparison, but maybe it can stimulate some discussion. I was surprised to see that nitrile can work down to lower temps than silicone, as I thought cold performance was a special strength of the latter.


2014 Forester XT, 95000 miles
Last Change;
M1 0W30 AFE d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977183
01/12/19 04:53 PM
01/12/19 04:53 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,458
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,458
The land of USA-made Subies!
That's the document I referenced as well to form my opinion.

Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977200
01/12/19 05:12 PM
01/12/19 05:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,546
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,546
VW Fanboy Island
Quote
Both materials are resistant to a range of chemicals. Nitrile has excellent resistance to hydrocarbon fuels and oils, making it ideal for automotive fuel applications. Formulations of nitrile containing phthalate plasticizers cannot be used with food or children’s toys. Silicone, on the other hand, is food grade and is often used in food and water processing equipment. For any application, it is important to check that the elastomer is resistant to the chemicals it will come into contact with.
I think they are trying to encourage the use of nitrile on fuel lines, rather than dissuade using it on ADBVs. That article does make the point that a silicone ADBV could be more effective at low temperatures.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 205k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977244
01/12/19 06:17 PM
01/12/19 06:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,308
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,308
Canyon County Idaho
I am surprised all missed the removal of the bypass filter screen on the Tough Guard filters.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4977365
01/12/19 08:37 PM
01/12/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,634
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline
WellOiled  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,634
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I googled around a bit and found this interesting general nitrile/silicone comparison...
https://jehbco.com.au/silicone-vs-nitrile/
One thing that caught my eye is that silicone is listed as not being compatible with hydrocarbon fuels...would this be an issue with fuel dilution in engines?
Nitrile is shown as only being good up to 250F, which I imagine might be seen in cars used for racing...the highest I think I have seen was just under 220F.

I am not qualified to discuss the merits of this comparison, but maybe it can stimulate some discussion. I was surprised to see that nitrile can work down to lower temps than silicone, as I thought cold performance was a special strength of the latter.

Thanks for the good article.

For oil filter application, the preferred material choice for the ADBV is silicone. Silicone does not degrade over time like nitrile does. By observation, some of the nitrile ADBVs are very hard on dissection. The silicone ADBVs remain nice and pliable.

The -50C spec more than covers the oils useful starting temperature. CCS is specified at -35C for the 0W/xx oils and -30C for 5W/xx oils.

WRT fuel dilution, I don’t have this issue. It would be interesting to know if 5-10% would create an issue with a silicone ADBV. Maybe someone with fuel dilution issues can comment. smile


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic HM 5W30 + WIX 51372
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: maxdustington] #4977366
01/12/19 08:37 PM
01/12/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,871
Ottumwa, Iowa
jhellwig Offline
jhellwig  Offline

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,871
Ottumwa, Iowa
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Quote
Both materials are resistant to a range of chemicals. Nitrile has excellent resistance to hydrocarbon fuels and oils, making it ideal for automotive fuel applications. Formulations of nitrile containing phthalate plasticizers cannot be used with food or children’s toys. Silicone, on the other hand, is food grade and is often used in food and water processing equipment. For any application, it is important to check that the elastomer is resistant to the chemicals it will come into contact with.
I think they are trying to encourage the use of nitrile on fuel lines, rather than dissuade using it on ADBVs. That article does make the point that a silicone ADBV could be more effective at low temperatures.


Nitrile swells in gasoline. An fkm rubber(Viton) would be a better option.


Sparks fly from my fingers.

1995 Chevy K2500 Suburban lt 5.7
2014 Toyota Sienna
1983 Chevy K5 350
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: WellOiled] #4977401
01/12/19 09:22 PM
01/12/19 09:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,883
Virginia
bbhero Online sick
bbhero  Online Sick

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,883
Virginia
Originally Posted by WellOiled
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I googled around a bit and found this interesting general nitrile/silicone comparison...
https://jehbco.com.au/silicone-vs-nitrile/
One thing that caught my eye is that silicone is listed as not being compatible with hydrocarbon fuels...would this be an issue with fuel dilution in engines?
Nitrile is shown as only being good up to 250F, which I imagine might be seen in cars used for racing...the highest I think I have seen was just under 220F.

I am not qualified to discuss the merits of this comparison, but maybe it can stimulate some discussion. I was surprised to see that nitrile can work down to lower temps than silicone, as I thought cold performance was a special strength of the latter.

Thanks for the good article.

For oil filter application, the preferred material choice for the ADBV is silicone. Silicone does not degrade over time like nitrile does. By observation, some of the nitrile ADBVs are very hard on dissection. The silicone ADBVs remain nice and pliable.

The -50C spec more than covers the oils useful starting temperature. CCS is specified at -35C for the 0W/xx oils and -30C for 5W/xx oils.

WRT fuel dilution, I don’t have this issue. It would be interesting to know if 5-10% would create an issue with a silicone ADBV. Maybe someone with fuel dilution issues can comment. smile



^^^^^

Well said. Silicone holds up to 230°C vs much lower for nitrile at 120°C. This may well be why nitrile hardens more than silicone after use in a oil filter.
Especially after longer runs above 10k miles and higher.

Last edited by bbhero; 01/12/19 09:23 PM.

Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977460
01/12/19 10:04 PM
01/12/19 10:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,634
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline
WellOiled  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,634
Houston, Texas
Exactly.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic HM 5W30 + WIX 51372
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: CT8] #4977476
01/12/19 10:26 PM
01/12/19 10:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,166
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,166
Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted by CT8
I am surprised all missed the removal of the bypass filter screen on the Tough Guard filters.

That has been gone for probably a decade.
Neat option though.


2018 Hyundai Santa Fe: Delo XLE 10w-30, OEM filter, 3k
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 0w-20, CQ Blue, 5k
2002 Ford F150: Magnatec 5w-20, Bosch D+, 1yr
1994 Honda VT1100: Peak 15w-40, PSL, 1yr
Re: When did team extra guard switch over to silicone ADBV? [Re: Corollaman] #4977500
01/12/19 10:50 PM
01/12/19 10:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,920
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,920
USA
Yeah I'm using them. The PH8316 for the Zetec, and a PH7317 which is basically an A02

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