tightening torque for wheel lugs
- Thread starter BobGoblin
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JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.
+1
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.
+1
Originally Posted by Trav
I know you are not an experienced mechanic or a mechanic at all but seriously you need to stop. Don't run this garbage you are posting on and on because you cant/wont admit you are wrong under any circumstances as usual, just post your videos and finding problems with your new car and leave advise on wrenching to others that know what are doing.
I was thinking the exact same thing. This user sounds quite familiar.
BobGoblin from Europe, that's a good one. And an M.D. too lol.
I know you are not an experienced mechanic or a mechanic at all but seriously you need to stop. Don't run this garbage you are posting on and on because you cant/wont admit you are wrong under any circumstances as usual, just post your videos and finding problems with your new car and leave advise on wrenching to others that know what are doing.
I was thinking the exact same thing. This user sounds quite familiar.
BobGoblin from Europe, that's a good one. And an M.D. too lol.
That's almost a bad as my trade school instructor laughing his backside off watching me trying to get the drivers side (IIRC) lugs off a 64 Belvedere. The other side came off dead easy but not one on this side, LH thread lugs.
I enjoy using my torque wrenches. I do use a dab of anti sieze.
It is nice to know the wheel is evenly torqued.
When I was young and lifted a lotta weight, I musta applied at least 120 pound feet or more to everything.
No more...
It is nice to know the wheel is evenly torqued.
When I was young and lifted a lotta weight, I musta applied at least 120 pound feet or more to everything.
No more...
Last edited:
Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.
Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.
I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.
Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs
Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.
Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.
Ou r Tuscon spec is exactly 65-79 ft.lbs in the owner's manual! Same as your kia.
I Try not to go over 73-75 but tire shops do it at 80 and won't listen to what you have to say. One of them said that's what their books show and legally they have to torque it to 80. Not a problem just 1 over 79.
147 is not a good idea!
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.
Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.
I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.
Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs
Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.
Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.
Ou r Tuscon spec is exactly 65-79 ft.lbs in the owner's manual! Same as your kia.
I Try not to go over 73-75 but tire shops do it at 80 and won't listen to what you have to say. One of them said that's what their books show and legally they have to torque it to 80. Not a problem just 1 over 79.
147 is not a good idea!
Last edited:
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.
Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.
I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.
Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs
Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.
Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.
Ou r Tuscon spec is exactly 65-79 ft.lbs in the owner's manual! Same as your kia.
I Try not to go over 73-75 but tire shops do it at 80 and won't listen to what you have to say. One of them said that's what their books show and legally they have to torque it to 80. Not a problem just 1 over 79.
147 is not a good idea!
A shop doing them at 80, not bad. I would have thought they'd send em' home at 100. LOL 100 would have been a gift the night I was helping my nephew.
Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.
Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.
I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.
Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs
Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.
Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.
Ou r Tuscon spec is exactly 65-79 ft.lbs in the owner's manual! Same as your kia.
I Try not to go over 73-75 but tire shops do it at 80 and won't listen to what you have to say. One of them said that's what their books show and legally they have to torque it to 80. Not a problem just 1 over 79.
147 is not a good idea!
A shop doing them at 80, not bad. I would have thought they'd send em' home at 100. LOL 100 would have been a gift the night I was helping my nephew.
Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
Originally Posted by Pelican
Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.
I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.
Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs
Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.
Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.
At 107 Nm for a 12 mm diameter size or 79 ft lbs for half inch diameter bolt, how would one calculates its axial force and tensile stress ?
Anybody care to explain ?
Originally Posted by Pelican
Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.
I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.
Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs
Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.
Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.
At 107 Nm for a 12 mm diameter size or 79 ft lbs for half inch diameter bolt, how would one calculates its axial force and tensile stress ?
Anybody care to explain ?
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Too much torque just makes it such a pain to get them off when you're wrenching them off on the side of the road.
Reminds me of a skit Ellen (comedian) did with another girl. They were along the side of the road changing a tire and Ellen said to other girl "ok, get the thing out of the trunk that goes "zzzip zzzip zzzip".
Too much torque just makes it such a pain to get them off when you're wrenching them off on the side of the road.
Reminds me of a skit Ellen (comedian) did with another girl. They were along the side of the road changing a tire and Ellen said to other girl "ok, get the thing out of the trunk that goes "zzzip zzzip zzzip".
Originally Posted by zeng
At 107 Nm for a 12 mm diameter size or 79 ft lbs for half inch diameter bolt, how would one calculates its axial force and tensile stress ?
Anybody care to explain ?
zeng, for others, not for you.
Strain is the only way to calculate "clamping force"
and "clamping force" is the thing that's stopping the wheels and hubs from fretting/moving.
Torque is a proxy
At 107 Nm for a 12 mm diameter size or 79 ft lbs for half inch diameter bolt, how would one calculates its axial force and tensile stress ?
Anybody care to explain ?
zeng, for others, not for you.
Strain is the only way to calculate "clamping force"
and "clamping force" is the thing that's stopping the wheels and hubs from fretting/moving.
Torque is a proxy
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted by doitmyself
His 150+ ft. lbs. may have buggered up (stretched) the bolts beyond their proof load (elastic range).
The testing I've done shows it takes a lot more than 150 ft-lbs to stretch a wheel bolt. It's closer to 400 ft-lbs.
His 150+ ft. lbs. may have buggered up (stretched) the bolts beyond their proof load (elastic range).
The testing I've done shows it takes a lot more than 150 ft-lbs to stretch a wheel bolt. It's closer to 400 ft-lbs.
Even local tire shops start with impact and finish with torque wrench. They want it done properly so customers are satisfied and reduce liability.
It's not like a torque wrench is $1000 tool that only dealers have. It's $50 or so.
It's not like a torque wrench is $1000 tool that only dealers have. It's $50 or so.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
I have never used a torque wrench on lug nuts , and I am nor a senioe citizen . None have fallen off yet .
^^^ I usually hit them with the pneumatic or impact driver until they stop and then move on to the other ones. Then I go back and hit them with a short burst of the gun again checking each one. Never torqued and never had any issues including bearing/hub issues or stud issues. My dad has done that for decades as well.
Torquing and torque procedures / order has it's place like with head bolts for example but I think there are a lot of places that it's not needed.
Why do they have a Torque Spec then? Well because they need to convey to someone else approximately the force used in some manner but aren't needed above common sense when it comes to things like lug nuts or oil drain plugs for example. Not torquing these things and using reasonable force that is "plenty" but not "over tight" is more than enough.
You wouldn't happen to be the kid at the tire local store, would you?
The one that used the same method to grossly over tighten wheel bolts?
Damaging them in the process, and making it impossible for an owner to change a tire with the tools in the trunk?
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
I have never used a torque wrench on lug nuts , and I am nor a senioe citizen . None have fallen off yet .
^^^ I usually hit them with the pneumatic or impact driver until they stop and then move on to the other ones. Then I go back and hit them with a short burst of the gun again checking each one. Never torqued and never had any issues including bearing/hub issues or stud issues. My dad has done that for decades as well.
Torquing and torque procedures / order has it's place like with head bolts for example but I think there are a lot of places that it's not needed.
Why do they have a Torque Spec then? Well because they need to convey to someone else approximately the force used in some manner but aren't needed above common sense when it comes to things like lug nuts or oil drain plugs for example. Not torquing these things and using reasonable force that is "plenty" but not "over tight" is more than enough.
You wouldn't happen to be the kid at the tire local store, would you?
The one that used the same method to grossly over tighten wheel bolts?
Damaging them in the process, and making it impossible for an owner to change a tire with the tools in the trunk?
Although it may be a good practise to re-torque the lug nuts, I believe the tire shops ask you to re-torque ( even for free at the shop) to absolve the tire shop of any liability. The re-torquing thing will be in the fine print on the back of the invoice typically. I'll bet very few customers ever come back to get them re-torqued. I will often re-torque and have never found a problem. If you find a loose one it is most likely from carelessness at the shop rather than them loosening up from driving. Not saying it's impossible though.
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Kestas
Staff member
I would heed the advice to retorque. I once put the wheels back on my car, torqued them properly, and found a number of lug nuts loose after driving to Florida. One lug nut was three turns loose.
I read this is more prevalent with aluminum wheels, I don't know why but retorquing both steel and aluminum after 60-100 miles is good practice.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Ou r Tuscon spec is exactly 65-79 ft.lbs in the owner's manual! Same as your kia.
I Try not to go over 73-75 but tire shops do it at 80 and won't listen to what you have to say. One of them said that's what their books show and legally they have to torque it to 80. Not a problem just 1 over 79.
147 is not a good idea!
A shop doing them at 80, not bad. I would have thought they'd send em' home at 100. LOL 100 would have been a gift the night I was helping my nephew.
I know what you mean! I will be very happy if they torque it @80 or at the highest torque specified. I've got lots of stories ... I've had cases were both Les Schwab and Discount Tire over torqued to 100 and even more. the car they did before me was a truck @100 or @120 ft.lb I saw the guy using the same wrench and after he torqued one tire, I asked him what torque, and he said oh yeah this should be 80 and not 100 ... Another time, I had 2 broken lug nuts after brake inspection at Les Schawb and they said it's not their fault and they were just bad. I went back to complain to the manager and he said maybe kids in the neighborhood did it! I am NOT kidding you! lol
after that, I will never go back to Les Schwab again! Maybe it is our local store because I've had good luck with them in the past. I think they have changed and going down hill as far as customer service. They get you on brake job as well. they change pads, calippers, rotor and everything else even If the car is only 3-4 years old and want over $1300 ... It happened to a co-worker as well. I told her to go to another brake shop only 2 blocks away and it cost her under $300.
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Ou r Tuscon spec is exactly 65-79 ft.lbs in the owner's manual! Same as your kia.
I Try not to go over 73-75 but tire shops do it at 80 and won't listen to what you have to say. One of them said that's what their books show and legally they have to torque it to 80. Not a problem just 1 over 79.
147 is not a good idea!
A shop doing them at 80, not bad. I would have thought they'd send em' home at 100. LOL 100 would have been a gift the night I was helping my nephew.
I know what you mean! I will be very happy if they torque it @80 or at the highest torque specified. I've got lots of stories ... I've had cases were both Les Schwab and Discount Tire over torqued to 100 and even more. the car they did before me was a truck @100 or @120 ft.lb I saw the guy using the same wrench and after he torqued one tire, I asked him what torque, and he said oh yeah this should be 80 and not 100 ... Another time, I had 2 broken lug nuts after brake inspection at Les Schawb and they said it's not their fault and they were just bad. I went back to complain to the manager and he said maybe kids in the neighborhood did it! I am NOT kidding you! lol
after that, I will never go back to Les Schwab again! Maybe it is our local store because I've had good luck with them in the past. I think they have changed and going down hill as far as customer service. They get you on brake job as well. they change pads, calippers, rotor and everything else even If the car is only 3-4 years old and want over $1300 ... It happened to a co-worker as well. I told her to go to another brake shop only 2 blocks away and it cost her under $300.
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Originally Posted by Trav
I read this is more prevalent with aluminum wheels, I don't know why but retorquing both steel and aluminum after 60-100 miles is good practice.
I'm as capable of dumb questions as anyone, so here goes: Do you retorque the wheel or just check for loosening? I suspect you use your torque wrench at the correct setting and if it clicks without turning, you assume its o.k.. Of course the problem here is that torque is supposed to be read while the nut is turning. A stationary nut might take a lot more torque to break it free to rotate. A person would not loosen the nut ever so little then retorque the nut to the proper torque, right?
And, Kestas thank you for pointing out that lug bolts require much higher torque to cause them to get into the plastic stage.
Found this interesting table at an engineering site: https://engineerdog.com/2015/01/11/10-tricks-engineers-need-to-know-about-fasteners/
![[Linked Image]](https://engineerdog.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/tightening_method_accuracy.jpg "[Linked Image]")
I read this is more prevalent with aluminum wheels, I don't know why but retorquing both steel and aluminum after 60-100 miles is good practice.
I'm as capable of dumb questions as anyone, so here goes: Do you retorque the wheel or just check for loosening? I suspect you use your torque wrench at the correct setting and if it clicks without turning, you assume its o.k.. Of course the problem here is that torque is supposed to be read while the nut is turning. A stationary nut might take a lot more torque to break it free to rotate. A person would not loosen the nut ever so little then retorque the nut to the proper torque, right?
And, Kestas thank you for pointing out that lug bolts require much higher torque to cause them to get into the plastic stage.
Found this interesting table at an engineering site: https://engineerdog.com/2015/01/11/10-tricks-engineers-need-to-know-about-fasteners/
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An older mechanic some 60 years ago taught me to wire brush the wheel studs and check the nuts for thread damage then put one drop of 30 wt machine oil on the stud. Then tighten the nuts in opposing maner in 30lb increments to torque. He also said to pay attention to the break loose torque for posible over tightening.On left hand threads there is almost always an L stamped on the end of bolts or studs.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted by doitmyself
I'm as capable of dumb questions as anyone, so here goes: Do you retorque the wheel or just check for loosening? I suspect you use your torque wrench at the correct setting and if it clicks without turning, you assume its o.k.. Of course the problem here is that torque is supposed to be read while the nut is turning. A stationary nut might take a lot more torque to break it free to rotate. A person would not loosen the nut ever so little then retorque the nut to the proper torque, right?
Yes, a proper check for torque involves loosening the fastener so it can be torqued using moving friction, not static friction.
But I'll admit that I only check to make sure there wasn't any gross loosening of the lug nuts.
An engineer who is an expert on car corners once told me truck stud bolts are specified to be clean with two drops of oil before tightening the lug nuts.
I'm as capable of dumb questions as anyone, so here goes: Do you retorque the wheel or just check for loosening? I suspect you use your torque wrench at the correct setting and if it clicks without turning, you assume its o.k.. Of course the problem here is that torque is supposed to be read while the nut is turning. A stationary nut might take a lot more torque to break it free to rotate. A person would not loosen the nut ever so little then retorque the nut to the proper torque, right?
Yes, a proper check for torque involves loosening the fastener so it can be torqued using moving friction, not static friction.
But I'll admit that I only check to make sure there wasn't any gross loosening of the lug nuts.
An engineer who is an expert on car corners once told me truck stud bolts are specified to be clean with two drops of oil before tightening the lug nuts.
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