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Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Exhaustgases] #4976689
01/12/19 05:15 AM
01/12/19 05:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 460
Chicagoland
Skippy722 Offline
Skippy722  Offline

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 460
Chicagoland
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.


They would like you to believe that. Sorry but I know all about manufacturing. I gave an example.


There might be 5 grand in raw materials in there. But machining and related tooling, plant upkeep, wages and benefits, taxes, indirect costs, R&D, etc all add up real quick. I too know about manufacturing.

Porsche was averaging about 18% profit. There’s no way they’re getting that out of a Toyota.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4976695
01/12/19 06:01 AM
01/12/19 06:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,022
Ontario Canada
cjcride Offline
cjcride  Offline

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,022
Ontario Canada
Nice post TiredTrucker.
Arrogant and ignorant ryhme for a reason.

Last edited by cjcride; 01/12/19 06:03 AM. Reason: clarity
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4981923
01/17/19 03:17 AM
01/17/19 03:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 18
Arizona by way of Jersey and N...
jerseyguy123 Offline
jerseyguy123  Offline

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 18
Arizona by way of Jersey and N...
I look at KBB and cars.com and autotrader. I offer them a fair price and I usually get a good deal. I have bought
20 cars and the experience is usually good. But I will walk away if the dealer is not bargaining in good faith

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4983165
01/18/19 04:28 AM
01/18/19 04:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,397
Central Iowa
TiredTrucker Offline
TiredTrucker  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,397
Central Iowa
The only problem with KBB (Cox Automotive) and Autotrader (Cox Media Group) is that they are industry sponsored sources presented by the same PR organization in favor of auto dealers.. By their very nature they keep the used prices elevated. Oh... NADA guides? Owned by J.D. Power. Another PR firm. Again, sponsored by and paid for by the auto industry itself. Oh well, someone has to pay the bills.

There is very little that can be called "objective" about the pricing in any of these things. But it works in favor of the auto dealers, especially those that are not OEM sponsored dealerships that buy vehicle at auctions to resell. It is not uncommon for "joe's used cars" to pick up vehicle at auction at prices that are significantly lower than "book" values. That means the dealers that brought the cars to auction knew they were not worth book value also.

A "good deal" is one that a person can live with. But a good deal should be like lawsuits, wherein a good settlement is one where both parties feel equally screwed. It is certain the many dealerships themselves do not follow the NADA, KBB, etc in terms of car value. The only way they give someone the "book" value in trade is if the vehicle the customer is buying is getting far more than what it is actually worth in the deal. It becomes a mind numbing cycle in favor of the dealerships. This is why I prefer to keep new car and used car negotiations separate. When they are combined, one will lose out in favor of the other and the dealer has two ways to buffalo the customer instead of one.

In terms of buying from a private owner, unless I know them personally and their vehicle, my offer will start at the lowest price a dealer would offer for the vehicle in trade. Now KBB and NADA might help a little bit there. One has to question the validity of KBB and NADA in this regard... why is it the car has one value if trading and another value if buying from a private source. It shows how things are skewed, and we have no real way fo knowing how skewed. The value of the car should be the same across the board.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
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