Are dealers getting away from price haggling?

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Depends.

A lot of dealers are in area that they have no competition near by, and most people will not try to go far away to save $500-1k for a car that's 30k. Also a lot of people know they don't know how to negotiate, so they would rather pay $500 more than risk paying $3k more in bad deals. Dealers are doing it because they know someone will bite.

The smart buyers are all doing internet negotiation now, so if you walk in they assume you don't know how to use the internet or are old, and rely on "relationship" or "I bought my last car here so you better treat me right" mentality.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.


They would like you to believe that. Sorry but I know all about manufacturing. I gave an example.
 
Repetitive hooey about "evil" corporations is an old mantra, not very accurate. Most of your largest corps invest fantastically large sums of money in R&D, it's one of their largest expenses. This is especially true of the auto makers.



People who do not understand business frequently miss this point. And there is NOTHING wrong with making a profit, nothing at all. There is however a huge PR opportunity in spreading the misinformation to sway public opinion.
 
We got our Toyota dealer to come way down on price by going through USAA and having them get the lowest quote for the car we were looking for.
We walked in to the dealership and told them the price and they gave it to us no problem.
We had been in that place a day earlier and the new price was far lower than they originally quoted us.
It pays to shop around.
 
Originally Posted by PandaBear
A lot of dealers are in area that they have no competition near by, and most people will not try to go far away to save $500-1k for a car that's 30k.


Yes. If you want to buy a new car here, you'll probably have to drive 200km or more to the nearest competing dealer. So if you want a specific car and aren't willing to take your second choice instead, you're pretty much screwed. And, even if you are willing to take the second choice, they know they're the only dealer in 200km who can sell you that car.
 
I'm noticing this too. They even have this new fancy thing called "no haggle pricing" which basically means "up yours". Read yelp reviews. Hundreds saying the sales guy didn't care if he sold the car or not. This is in large metro areas with lots every 500 feet, literally!

It's coming from the last couple years of booming car sales along with the demoralization of the country. Honestly if you find a dealer that can be trusted, buy whatever it is they're selling. That's a lot harder than finding the best brand.
 
Do your research. If you can't come to a meeting of the minds on price, walk. You have the power. They have to sell cars. You do not have to buy.
 
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.


I helped a gal buy a used 2013 Ford Escape a couple days ago. We went super per-paired with KBB trade-in and dealer selling prices, etc. We tried every angle possible for them to even take $300~$500 off their asking price. It was a no trade-in deal. Their price was on the very high end of the KBB dealer price and they wouldn't come down $1. They kept claiming they were basically selling it for "wholesale" ... I had to chuckle. It was was late at night when they were about ready to close, so tried to put pressure on them to make a sale. Sales manager finally got involved and best we could do is have them delete the $150 document fees and throw in a new battery since it still had the original battery and needed a jump on the lot. Otherwise, the vehicle was pretty nice and loaded with options she was looking for.
 
Just experienced similar nonsense with 3 out of 4 local Ram dealers. 3 out of 4 wouldn't respond to online requests for a price. Only one cared enough to email me back repeatedly. The rest basically told me to get bent. "You need to come in to see what rebates you qualify for". Please...
 
Went to one Toyota dealer and after 45 mins of dealing with them still didn't have a price and ended up leaving. I was a little peaved. They would say, offer us a price. Then have you wait and wait. Come back and say, no we can't do that, offer us another price. Make you wait and wait. Trying to get you to bid against yourself.

Went to next closest dealer and a young lady comes up to me. After a short time comes back with a trade offer and price on the new car that was reasonable. I had my figures written down for trade, new car price and out the door amount. After short time she comes back with sales mgr who says if we can do your numbers can we make a deal today? Me: sure. And that was that, very simple and easy. I couldn't believe the difference btwn the two.
 
I always managed to get what I wanted. And I buy in all lower 48 states.
When I lived in Montgomery, AL, bought three cars in ATL. Montgomery dealers did not want to negotiated, went to ATL, competition is tough, everyone wants to make a deal.
Lived in San Diego and got offer for a job here in Colorado Springs. Wife said she wants AWD vehicle. Tried RAV4, CRV etc, she settled on Tiguan (was also my preference but did not want to push too hard as she never owned Euro vehicle and was "afraid" of them). Talked to dealers, got really good offer from dealer in Virginia that saved me some $4,000 for SEL model. Took overnight Delta one way for some $160, bought some cigars, drove it back in 2 1/2 days, smoked some cigars on a way, saw some stuff, nice road trip.
Few years back, was on the market for BMW diesel. Talked few dealers in Chicago, ATL, Salt Lake etc. Found one in Minneapolis, drove my CC there, traded in, drove back. Again, smoked some cigars, drink some beer, nice road trip.
Was traded in BMW for Sienna and was negotiating gain all over the country and some locally. Almost pulled deal on Sienna in Michigan, when one popped in in Denver that is AWD, and I really made a good deal. At the same time local Toyota was harassing me since I checked with them and told the guy I am trying to make a deal in Michigan, he said: wait, you would go for a car there? I said yes, they are like $3,000 cheaper. His answer: for $3,000 you would drive there? I said: dude, for a good road trip I would drive for free, but to save $3,000 I would walk. [censored] is wrong with you, I asked. I can put those $3,000 on my kids 529 plan.
 
Personally I don't think dealerships are getting away from price haggling, is the customers that let the dealers get away from price haggling.

Customers these days simply don't know how to say no and walk away.

As someone mentioned earlier, dealers have to sell, you don't have to buy.
 
Consumer culture. People who wait in line for hours to buy the latest $1000 phone that won't be worth toilet water next year don't think really put a lot of thought into purchasing.

When it comes to car purchasing, people always seem to get it in their head that they NEED a car right NOW. Dealers are giant lots with tons of cars. They aren't going to pack up and move tomorrow. Why the rush? These are the last people anyone should excercise urgency with.
 
I worked at a BMW dealer for about 18 months. I was a product specialist but I could also sell cars if everyone else was busy. Most of the deals were pretty easy; we offered fleet discounts to employees of most of the larger businesses and didn't play games. I heard more than once from a customer that they chose our store because we were low pressure and shot straight.
 
I have gotten away from haggling over price. I simply look for what I want and I ask the dealer for their best out the door price, including tax. I approach several other dealers regarding the same vehicle and ask for the same thing. All the while letting each of them know that I am seeking the best OTD price from other dealers. What dealer has the vehicle I want doesn't factor into it. Any dealer can get a vehicle from any other dealer. 2 of the last 4 vehicles i have bought, the vehicle I wanted was brought to me from another dealer. One of them was out of state and 200 miles away.

If a dealer tries to tack on anything else above their quoted OTD price, the deal is squashed and I leave. The OTD price they quote has to be the one that gets the vehicle driven off the lot. There is no additional filing fees, destination fees, and other nonsense to jack up the price later. They should have included any fees and such in their quote. I did ask for an OTD price. If financing is needed, that is prearranged by me elsewhere. I will let the dealer try to beat it, but it is not even brought up about financing until the OTD price is settled. Until the price is agreed on, for all they know I will be writing a check and not financing. Likewise, even if I am interested in trading in a vehicle, that is not brought up or discussed until the OTD price is settled. The trade is a totally separate thing. If they can't be reasonable with that, I will sell it myself.

And any deal, I always take a break and go to lunch or wait till next day to finalize. Never close without taking a break away from the dealership. I guess that is mean of me. I like them to wonder if I might walk away from the deal. Sometimes they will call me and sweeten the deal. Also, there is no shuffling me from sales guy to finance guy or whoever. If the initial sales guy cannot quote me the OTD price, then point me to who can. This shuffling of the customer to different people and levels of negotiation will not play.

I give a dealer I have dealt with previously the first shot. But they still have to compete with other dealers. As opposed to me being loyal to the dealer or the brand, they have to be loyal to me and prove it. Unfortunately, none of them have been. Each of the last 4 vehicles I bought from different dealers. Same OEM brand, but different dealerships. It is some weird idea in America that the consumer has to be loyal to the dealership or the brand. I am a businessman, and I guess the reason I stay profitable is that I understand that I need to cater to my customers, not the other way around. American car dealerships can be really arrogant.
 
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.


They would like you to believe that. Sorry but I know all about manufacturing. I gave an example.


There might be 5 grand in raw materials in there. But machining and related tooling, plant upkeep, wages and benefits, taxes, indirect costs, R&D, etc all add up real quick. I too know about manufacturing.

Porsche was averaging about 18% profit. There's no way they're getting that out of a Toyota.
 
I look at KBB and cars.com and autotrader. I offer them a fair price and I usually get a good deal. I have bought
20 cars and the experience is usually good. But I will walk away if the dealer is not bargaining in good faith
 
The only problem with KBB (Cox Automotive) and Autotrader (Cox Media Group) is that they are industry sponsored sources presented by the same PR organization in favor of auto dealers.. By their very nature they keep the used prices elevated. Oh... NADA guides? Owned by J.D. Power. Another PR firm. Again, sponsored by and paid for by the auto industry itself. Oh well, someone has to pay the bills.

There is very little that can be called "objective" about the pricing in any of these things. But it works in favor of the auto dealers, especially those that are not OEM sponsored dealerships that buy vehicle at auctions to resell. It is not uncommon for "joe's used cars" to pick up vehicle at auction at prices that are significantly lower than "book" values. That means the dealers that brought the cars to auction knew they were not worth book value also.

A "good deal" is one that a person can live with. But a good deal should be like lawsuits, wherein a good settlement is one where both parties feel equally screwed. It is certain the many dealerships themselves do not follow the NADA, KBB, etc in terms of car value. The only way they give someone the "book" value in trade is if the vehicle the customer is buying is getting far more than what it is actually worth in the deal. It becomes a mind numbing cycle in favor of the dealerships. This is why I prefer to keep new car and used car negotiations separate. When they are combined, one will lose out in favor of the other and the dealer has two ways to buffalo the customer instead of one.

In terms of buying from a private owner, unless I know them personally and their vehicle, my offer will start at the lowest price a dealer would offer for the vehicle in trade. Now KBB and NADA might help a little bit there. One has to question the validity of KBB and NADA in this regard... why is it the car has one value if trading and another value if buying from a private source. It shows how things are skewed, and we have no real way fo knowing how skewed. The value of the car should be the same across the board.
 
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