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Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi #4976562 01/11/19 10:28 PM
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Artem Offline OP
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Second oil change on my newly acquired semi. First fill using Valvoline Blue.

Still keeping the intervals short as I flush out whatever oil was in there previously and testing the waters to find a good interval for my particular use which includes lots of dusty, dirt yards. The truck gets COVERED with a thick layer of dust daily, so I'm worried about air filtration and oil contamination.

Other then that, I like this truck and this engine.

Refilled with another round of Valvoline Blue 15w40 but kept the dual oil filters installed for another 16k (gonna have 32k total on the oil filters during the next oil change).

Thoughts on the TBN / TAN being so high?

Code
OIL             Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic      
MILES IN USE    16,262 miles          
MILES on unit   574,880 miles  
SAMPLE TAKEN    10/29/2018
Make up Oil     3qts

Universal Average based on 28,000 miles

ALUMINUM        2              4 
CHROMIUM        0              0  
IRON            4              12 
COPPER          1              3
LEAD            0              0
TIN             0              0 
MOLYBDENUM      49             44   
NICKEL          0              0  
MANGANESE       0              0  
SILVER          0              0 
TITANIUM        6              1 
POTASSIUM       0              4 
BORON           31             54  
SILICON         4              7  
SODIUM          5              4
CALCIUM         1531           1720
MAGNESIUM       615            491
PHOSPHORUS      1083           971
ZINC            1203           1125
BARIUM          0              0 
 
                            Values Should Be*
SUS VIS 210�F   75.3           69-79
cSt @ 212�F     14.34          12.7-15.5
FLASHPOINT �F   430            >415
Fuel %           <0.5           <2.0
Antifreeze       0.0             0.0
WATER            0.0            <0.1
INSOLUBLES       TR             <0.6
TBN              6.9            >1.0
TAN              6.6


Kenworth 16,262 miles.jpg
Attached PDF document
OilReports.aspx.pdf (55.87 KB, 26 downloads)
Last edited by Artem; 01/11/19 10:28 PM.

2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Artem] #4976587 01/11/19 11:07 PM
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Chris142 Offline
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Air filter is working well.


02 Wrangler Napa high milage 10w40
87 F250 Valvoline 15w40
07 fjcruiser Car lube plus 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am Maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor Chevron sae30
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Artem] #4977171 01/12/19 04:35 PM
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I was going to say that TBN at 6.9 is fine, and you could go for longer oil change intervals.
But then I saw the TAN is 6.6. That sounds high to me, and has doubled since the last sample.
Shouldn't the oil be changed when TAN = TBN? From that standpoint, you changed the oil at about the right time.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Chris142] #4977485 01/12/19 10:35 PM
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Artem Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Chris142
Air filter is working well.


Yea, seem like it. When I dusted it, after the oil change, I was shocked by how much loose dirt came out of it. I should have taken a picture...

Paccar rates them for 1 year but doesn’t really specify the mileage, which is strange.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: A_Harman] #4977489 01/12/19 10:38 PM
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Artem Offline OP
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Originally Posted by A_Harman
I was going to say that TBN at 6.9 is fine, and you could go for longer oil change intervals.
But then I saw the TAN is 6.6. That sounds high to me, and has doubled since the last sample.
Shouldn't the oil be changed when TAN = TBN? From that standpoint, you changed the oil at about the right time.



Yea I’m not sure about the TBN / TAN crossover either. Seems there’s plenty of TBN left but TAN does seem rather high.

What I wonder is, say I kept running it, TBN would decrease obviously but TAN could stay the same or could increase, which would mean quite acidic oil... I don’t want that acid soup in the engine for too long.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Artem] #4981177 01/16/19 02:24 PM
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racin4ds Offline
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Tell me you didn't previously use Idemitsu 0W20 oil in that truck? That is what the top oil analysis is stating....


Just say NO to thin oils and M1!
05 F350 Powerstroke
05 Hyundai Tucson
08 Legacy GT
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Artem] #4982631 01/17/19 04:29 PM
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Purpfox Offline
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Certified Analyst ( by no means an expert Much to learn )
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: racin4ds] #4982943 01/17/19 09:37 PM
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Artem Offline OP
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Originally Posted by racin4ds
Tell me you didn't previously use Idemitsu 0W20 oil in that truck? That is what the top oil analysis is stating....



Whoops. Looks like I forgot to edit that in the code. Good eye.

No I didn’t run 0w20. LOL. It was Valvoline Blue 15w40 diesel oil.


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Purpfox] #4982949 01/17/19 09:43 PM
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Artem Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Purpfox



There’s no date stamp anywhere in that article. Any idea how old it is?


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 -- 16,262 miles -- 2014 Kenworth T660 semi [Re: Artem] #4983179 01/18/19 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Artem
Originally Posted by Purpfox


There’s no date stamp anywhere in that article. Any idea how old it is?


Well it's discussing the change from CI-4+ to CJ-4, so about 13 years old give or take a year!

I'm on record as to saying that TBN/TAN is often very misunderstood. And I'll keep beating that drum until some folks actually listen.

TBN/TAN is important, but only as an input and not an output. Wear metals tell the real story about how things are going. Most all other things are inputs (Vis, FP, base/acid, etc).

Inputs are predictors, they are NOT results. There are thousands upon thousands of UOAs where the TBN has been low, and/or there's been an base/acid cross-over, and yet wear metals go unaffected. Back when diesel fuel was loaded with sulfur, and the crankcases were "open" (PCV vented to atmosphere), then acid build up was a big concern in longer OCIs. Back then, seeing a cross-over was a tell-tale sign that wear was about to uptick. But today, with ULSD and closed vent systems, this isn't as big of a deal. And more importantly, it's still just a predictor of things that MIGHT change at some point in the FUTURE. The inversion of base/acid is not, in and of itself, an assurance that wear is suddenly going to just skyrocket. There is ZERO proof of this being true. There is not one case of the base/acid inversion immediately resulting in wear rate escalation in over 15,000 UOAs I've processed in my database. If there were a trend, I'd know it for sure. Folks - it ain't there.

UOAs are tools, they are not 100% assurances of perfection, nor is any tool perfect. They have to be understood in how/when to use them. The base/acid topic is just a tool within a tool. You have to know what it represents and how to use the info. Seeing low TBN or a cross-over of base/acid does NOT IN ANY MANNER MEAN THAT THE OIL IS BAD OR THE ENGINE IS IN DANGER. What it means it that when that threshold is crossed, it's time to pay closer attention to the wear metals.

If you are doing extended OCIs, and you're doing your UOAs every 10k miles, and then you see a TBN/TAN cross-over happen, it's time to start maybe taking your UOAs at 7.5k miles; a bit sooner and more frequently to track the POTENTIAL shift in metals, indicating a uptick in a wear trend. And just because that uptick happens, it's not time to panic. If you're doing extended OCIs with UOAs, you should be managing the sump to reasonable condemnation limits for totals and rates.

But just like we see preset limits on OCIs from the OEM (often ultra conservative as a means of over-protection), the topic of base/acid is similar. There's no proof that the inversion of the base/acid realtionship will result in immediate wear escalation; but it's easy for the pundits to simply use that as a trigger for an OCI, as an over-reaction of safety measure. It's easier to just put a simple black-and-white rule on a piece of paper than to explain the real reason to use the tool, and then teach folks how to properly use it. There's no proof that a 5k mile OCI is truly the best decision in terms of wear and costs, but it's easy to print in an Owner's Manual. And there's no proof that doing an oil change is safer or cost effective when the TBN/TAN inverts, but it's easy to print in a manual or post on a website, and then have the gullible follow along because they are uninformed and don't know what it really represents or why to use it.

INPUTS are things to track as potential indicators of future wear trend shifts. Vis, FP, TBN/TAN, etc all are physical characteristics of the lubes that, when in spec, indicate all it well. But when they go out of spec, it's not an assurance that wear is going to just blow-up; it's only an indication that it's time to start paying closer attention to the outputs. It's a tell-tale sign that things MIGHT shift sooner than you had previously expected, and so you need to pay closer attention a bit more often. THAT is how/why to use inputs. They are not, in and of themselves, a reason to change oil or panic. Only if a characteristic QUICKLY went WAY out of spec (a 20 grade becomes a 50 grade due to sever over-oxidation and thickening additives, for example) would it be prudent to do an immediate OCI, as an example.

Most of you whom know me, realize that I'm a data-driven person. Over 15k UOAs in my database, and adding every day. I can see trends (or the absence of them) far sooner than most pundits. It's not that TBN/TAN are not important in extended OCIs; they most certainly are. But they are not a cause for OCI panic. They are a tool within a tool; they are an input to an equation that has an output. Pay attention to the outputs; use them as your guide for OCIs. The inputs are predictors of potential change, and nothing more.

Hope that clears up the topic for some of you.


Last edited by dnewton3; 01/18/19 05:54 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
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