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Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4975991
01/11/19 11:23 AM
01/11/19 11:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,731
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,731
The Motor City
I bought my first torque wrench after 20 years of wrenching. I was surprised how little torque was needed for wheel bolts compared with previously doing it by feel.

My clicker torque wrench was bought from JC Whitney. I calibrated it at work and found it torques 10% light in the range I use it the most.

Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: Kestas] #4976027
01/11/19 11:47 AM
01/11/19 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 757
Los Gatos CA
djb Online content
djb  Online Content
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 757
Los Gatos CA
Originally Posted by Kestas
I bought my first torque wrench after 20 years of wrenching. I was surprised how little torque was needed for wheel bolts compared with previously doing it by feel.

My clicker torque wrench was bought from JC Whitney. I calibrated it at work and found it torques 10% light in the range I use it the most.


That's the usual experience. Just because you *can* over-tighten the fastener, and have been doing that for years, does not mean that you *should*.

10% accuracy for the tool is good enough -- that's well within the error range for conditions and technique. If you have a calibration tester available, observe the changes with different grip positions, applying a bit of twist, using a medium socket vs a shallow socket, and a sloppy vs snug socket fit.

Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: WyrTwister] #4976056
01/11/19 12:10 PM
01/11/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
I have never used a torque wrench on lug nuts , and I am nor a senioe citizen . None have fallen off yet .

^^^ I usually hit them with the pneumatic or impact driver until they stop and then move on to the other ones. Then I go back and hit them with a short burst of the gun again checking each one. Never torqued and never had any issues including bearing/hub issues or stud issues. My dad has done that for decades as well.

Torquing and torque procedures / order has it's place like with head bolts for example but I think there are a lot of places that it's not needed.

Why do they have a Torque Spec then? Well because they need to convey to someone else approximately the force used in some manner but aren't needed above common sense when it comes to things like lug nuts or oil drain plugs for example. Not torquing these things and using reasonable force that is "plenty" but not "over tight" is more than enough.

Last edited by StevieC; 01/11/19 12:14 PM.

'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 18k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w30
'06 Hyundai Santa Fe - 535k KM (Dead) - AMSOIL SS 0w30
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4976064
01/11/19 12:17 PM
01/11/19 12:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,915
Marshfield , MA
andyd Online content
andyd  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,915
Marshfield , MA
The spec doesn't matter so much as the application. Lugs are tightened in a 3 stage star pattern with the wrench you keep in the trunk, not your tool box at home. grin2

I checked the lugs on the Camry after the winter wheels were put on. Every single one was able to be loosened with the 3/4 jack handle that fits the winter nuts. That the lugs were different than stock was a surprise. Usually, I make discoveries like this miles from home. grin2


'16 Camry LE STP synth 0w20 and STP filter. the Fridge

1994 Ranger ,the Rat, 5w30 dino, STP filter

'16 Camry SE, Valvoline HM 0w20 and OEM filter
Thick oil is better grin2
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: MasterSolenoid] #4976066
01/11/19 12:20 PM
01/11/19 12:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,270
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,270
NY
Originally Posted by MasterSolenoid
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I use one for torquing lug nuts. I go by what the mfg. of the vehicle specs.

Absolutely! The torque is there so that over tightening doesn't occur which could warp the brake rotors.

I agree, and that's why I use a Torque Wrench on Lug Nuts.

Newton Meter converted to Ft. Lbs.
88 NM = 65 Ft Lbs
107 NM = 79 Ft Lbs
--------------------------
200 NM = 147 Ft Lbs

Diameter of Stud would also factor into proper torque.

Tire change places want you to come back after a few days so they can RECHECK the torque.
They know lug nuts may loosen.

thumbsup I figure it is easy enough to do. I've cursed repair and tire shops that slam them home with an impact gun. On more than one occasion I had to slip a pipe on a breaker bar to get them loose. Using a torque wrench adds very little time. Then I know the wheels are torqued properly and I won't have to fight and curse removing them next time. OTOH I'm not going to stand on a soapbox preaching the merits or debate not using a torque.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: StevieC] #4976088
01/11/19 12:39 PM
01/11/19 12:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,787
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,787
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
I have never used a torque wrench on lug nuts , and I am nor a senioe citizen . None have fallen off yet .

^^^ I usually hit them with the pneumatic or impact driver until they stop and then move on to the other ones. Then I go back and hit them with a short burst of the gun again checking each one. Never torqued and never had any issues including bearing/hub issues or stud issues. My dad has done that for decades as well.

Torquing and torque procedures / order has it's place like with head bolts for example but I think there are a lot of places that it's not needed.

Why do they have a Torque Spec then? Well because they need to convey to someone else approximately the force used in some manner but aren't needed above common sense when it comes to things like lug nuts or oil drain plugs for example. Not torquing these things and using reasonable force that is "plenty" but not "over tight" is more than enough.


You need to post your you tube videos and forget giving hack advise on repairs. Now for 10 pages on why its okay and all the rest of that crap.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: Trav] #4976107
01/11/19 12:58 PM
01/11/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,360
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,360
The Canyons
+1

Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: Trav] #4976118
01/11/19 01:11 PM
01/11/19 01:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by Trav
You need to post your you tube videos and forget giving hack advise on repairs. Now for 10 pages on why its okay and all the rest of that crap.


Whatever you say... Why don't you tell me more about your love affair with Bosch and how they are the bestest and most super duper. smirk2

Last edited by StevieC; 01/11/19 01:12 PM.

'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 18k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w30
'06 Hyundai Santa Fe - 535k KM (Dead) - AMSOIL SS 0w30
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: StevieC] #4976137
01/11/19 01:25 PM
01/11/19 01:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,301
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,301
North Carolina
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Trav
You need to post your you tube videos and forget giving hack advise on repairs. Now for 10 pages on why its okay and all the rest of that crap.

Whatever you say... Why don't you tell me more about your love affair with Bosch and how they are the bestest and most super duper. smirk2

Well Bosch is under the hood of almost every car on the road, so...


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: StevieC] #4976153
01/11/19 01:38 PM
01/11/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,270
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,270
NY
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Trav
You need to post your you tube videos and forget giving hack advise on repairs. Now for 10 pages on why its okay and all the rest of that crap.


Whatever you say... Why don't you tell me more about your love affair with Bosch and how they are the bestest and most super duper. smirk2

FTR What does that have to do with torquing lug nuts?


God Bless Our Troops

Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4976154
01/11/19 01:41 PM
01/11/19 01:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
It doesn't Trav was being a bit of a jerk so I was being cheeky back.


'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 18k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w30
'06 Hyundai Santa Fe - 535k KM (Dead) - AMSOIL SS 0w30
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4976247
01/11/19 03:05 PM
01/11/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 850
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 850
missouri
I always use brake clean to clean the taper in the wheel (mind the paint) and the inside of the lug nut and threads. No oil or anti-seize. Torque dry. You can anti-seize the hub where the wheel centers lightly.

Never had one come loose.

If they have been over torqued look at the lug stud to see if it is necked down right where it comes out of the hub. If there is any diameter decrease have new studs installed. I use a small steel rule,as a straight edge to make it easier to see.


Link to good picture.
https://www.google.com/search?q=overtorque+bolt+picture&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS819US819&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjghcOL0ObfAhUFXq0KHeXpA3cQsAR6BAgDEAE&biw=1920&bih=938#imgrc=8Z5rrGvVuKZIQM:



Rod

Last edited by ragtoplvr; 01/11/19 03:11 PM.
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4976259
01/11/19 03:14 PM
01/11/19 03:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,787
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 20,787
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I don't think so. Your post is way off on all accounts and anyone reading that and tries doing a job that way can end up with all sorts of issues.
Many if not most cordless impacts use a pin and clutch mechanism and not the more controllable hammer(s), the problem with that is they make high torque right out of the gate so a few raps with that could be way higher than spec.

Many of the guys that don't do this type of work for a living use cordless exclusively and many of them are the biggest offered (bigger is better right). People all over the world visit this site so you must be careful posting hacks, work arounds, and shade tree repairs.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4976265
01/11/19 03:22 PM
01/11/19 03:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 22,182
ON, Canada eh?
In the words of Mr. Garison from South Park.... Mmmmm K

Well you have stated what is safe by all means and I have stated what has been our experiences where absolutely nothing has happened doing it the way I described and you can call it whatever you want but it doesn't change the fact that many folks do it this way and have 0 issues.

It's funny when tow-truck drivers put on your full-size spares they don't torque your wheel nuts either and what about people that put on their own spares using the tools provided by the OEM. How come they don't provide a torque wrench if it's soooooooooooo important to safety? Not to mention all the cars driving around missing lug nuts, missing studs for the nuts or using standard nuts in place of lug nuts, I'm sure the nuts that are present are torqued though in those situations because their wheels are staying on.

Hmmmm Seems dangerous to me not to torque and use reasonable tightness given your "it absolutely needs to be torqued" standard! smirk2

This is what I said for the record... Which endorses double checking each lug nut to make sure it's tight enough by hitting it again with the gun so unless you are using a pancake compressor or some other weak way to put the nuts back on it's not going to be a problem and if it was you wouldn't have gotten them off in the first place with the same tool that is too weak. shrug

Originally Posted by StevieC

^^^ I usually hit them with the pneumatic or impact driver until they stop and then move on to the other ones. Then I go back and hit them with a short burst of the gun again checking each one. Never torqued and never had any issues including bearing/hub issues or stud issues. My dad has done that for decades as well.

Torquing and torque procedures / order has it's place like with head bolts for example but I think there are a lot of places that it's not needed.

Why do they have a Torque Spec then? Well because they need to convey to someone else approximately the force used in some manner but aren't needed above common sense when it comes to things like lug nuts or oil drain plugs for example. Not torquing these things and using reasonable force that is "plenty" but not "over tight" is more than enough.

Last edited by StevieC; 01/11/19 03:45 PM.

'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 18k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w30
'06 Hyundai Santa Fe - 535k KM (Dead) - AMSOIL SS 0w30
Re: tightening torque for wheel lugs [Re: BobGoblin] #4976274
01/11/19 03:34 PM
01/11/19 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 287
California
DGXR Offline
DGXR  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 287
California
It is interesting how lug torque seems relatively low for the application yet it works just fine. I figure it's not just one lug, but 4 (or 5 or more) all working together and spread across an area. So the wheel stays put. I imagine the engineers are shooting for a balance between being tight enough so that it doesn't fall off, but not so tight that it warps the rotor or damages the stud (or wheel). This is exactly why torque specs matter. Yes, they do matter. Just because someone hasn't had a bad experience without torquing, doesn't mean it's OK. These people place their own values into a risk vs reward equation... as if there is a reward to be had for not using the proper tool. To me, there is no equation. The torque spec is provided by the equipment manufacturer. I mean really, it's not hard to do it right. And if you know how to use tools, it's not very inconvenient either.


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 2wd access cab
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
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