Hello again, its been awhile since I've posted anything here. I've had my 2017 2.7 f150 eco for about 15 months now and it's been great towing my 4800lb dry travel trailer so far. I spend about 8mos a year traveling for work and have recently decided to go full time and just tour around when not working. Although my truck does great towing I'm not sure about whether the half ton is really suitable for full time towing a full size trailer 15,000 miles a year with another 8 to 10k unhitched. I'm just afraid that it may get tired much quicker than a 3/4 ton drivetrain and suspension, not to mention turbos. Just thought I would put this post out there to see what comes back. My gross max is 7600lb and I will probably be close to that when I trade my trailer in for a new one, somewhere between 5500 and 6250lb. Max tow for the 2.7 is 8100 I believe and from what research ice done the only difference for max tow is having a 3.73 gear vs my 3.31. Any ford techs out there that can confirm this? I know the sticker is the sticker and I don't intend to be illegal but if I end up towing to my max I'd rather be configured closer to the max tow configuration. How much better will 3.73s tow compared to my 3.31? Mpg loss while unhooked? Sorry for this post being kind of all over the place, just trying to decide if I want to keep my truck and swap gears or trade on a older f250. Thanks.
Full time rving with my 2.7 ecoboost
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Originally Posted by FLORIDA
How much better will 3.73s tow compared to my 3.31? Mpg loss while unhooked?
Towing will improve, and if you don't mind going a little slower, then 4.10 gears will help with hills even more.
Gas mileage will go down 1-2 MPG when unhooked with 3.73s gears compared to 3.31
How much better will 3.73s tow compared to my 3.31? Mpg loss while unhooked?
Towing will improve, and if you don't mind going a little slower, then 4.10 gears will help with hills even more.
Gas mileage will go down 1-2 MPG when unhooked with 3.73s gears compared to 3.31
The 2.7 Ecoboost isn't the best thing for towing. https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...df/guides/18RV&TT_Ford_F150_Oct9.pdf
I doubt you have to worry about the engine, you will smoke a trans much sooner than the turbos towing all the time. I think I would prefer a tune over gears, less messy and less of a chance of the shop installing the gears incorrectly.
I think you're in the perfect position to mod your truck as opposed to replacing it. You're planning to approach the limits of what it can tow, and need the capabilities for peace of mind more than anything else. I would get a tune and transmission cooler, and perhaps towing focused brake pads.
I think you're in the perfect position to mod your truck as opposed to replacing it. You're planning to approach the limits of what it can tow, and need the capabilities for peace of mind more than anything else. I would get a tune and transmission cooler, and perhaps towing focused brake pads.
The 2.7 is built with a CGI block and about as close to a diesel as you can get for torque down low. Having 3.73 gearing certainly would help, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. Whether you have the 6R80 or 10R80 transmission (I forget for 2017) both are the same transmission as max tow trucks with the 3.5 TT. My 2016 is a max tow rated for 11700lbs and 1806 lbs of payload. I think you would be fine with the truck you have.
Special order a 2019 with the 3.5, max tow, and heavy duty payload package. I think payload package comes with 3.73 gears. Hard to find on a lot so ordering might be only way. Replace the rear shocks with Fox 2.0 or better. I would not be towing that heavy, that often, with the 2.7 and no max tow or payload pckg. Also get BLIS, great in general but especially for towing.
My 2018 5.0 Coyote with 3.55 gears and tow pckg would tow better than your set up, and I would not use my truck for what you do/plan to do.
My 2018 5.0 Coyote with 3.55 gears and tow pckg would tow better than your set up, and I would not use my truck for what you do/plan to do.
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I would not go to an older truck for towing. IMO the issue is not the 1/2 ton truck, it is that the half ton truck isn't equipped properly for best capability. Does it alt least have the tow package and not just a hitch?
Go to Fords build and price and look at what's in the "max tow package", how much of that does your truck have?
Go to Fords build and price and look at what's in the "max tow package", how much of that does your truck have?
Properly maintained, it should hold up well. That means using very high quality synthetic oil and changing at the severe service interval or sooner. There is no question that a smal engine working hard will place additional loads on various internal components. The key to long life has always been good maintenance and good choices. I'd not worry about your rear axle ratio too much, as your transmission will select a lower gear when necessary and that transmission is tough enough to tow in 4th, 5th or 6th. By the way that 6 speed transmission is about industructable with proper service. The higher numerical ratio rear will simply mean it spends more time it top gear (on a six speed auto) which has no benefit in my mind.
As for the higher numerical ratio axle being somehow tougher, I don't buy that either. The pinion gear is smaller.
I have a 2018 4x4 2.7L and tow a 22 foot trailer with aircraft (helicopter landing pads) on it. About 6000 pounds, 3.55 gears. The 10 speed auto ranges between 6th and 10th gear. Rarely spending all that much time in any gear.
In the leaded fuel/air cooled aircraft engine world, oil lasts about 35 hours, at which point contaminates are sufficient to accelerate wear. The manual allows 100 hour oil changes, because it's safe. But not ideal with regard to wear or deposits. Testing by Shell shows that the oil's performance starts to degrade in the mid 30 hour range.
It's easy to dismiss aircraft as being a different world, but we must remember they are highly loaded engines, with some (such as mine) rated for full HP continuously. Turbochargers glow red hot for hours on end. As I mentioned above, those who get good engine life and often go many hours past overhaul (I know of one guy who has nearly 4000 hours on both his engines) , maintain their equipment well. Those who choose 100 hour oil changes sometimes don't even make the 2000 hour overhaul.
I'd have confidence that a good maintenance program will keep your stuff healthy.
As for the higher numerical ratio axle being somehow tougher, I don't buy that either. The pinion gear is smaller.
I have a 2018 4x4 2.7L and tow a 22 foot trailer with aircraft (helicopter landing pads) on it. About 6000 pounds, 3.55 gears. The 10 speed auto ranges between 6th and 10th gear. Rarely spending all that much time in any gear.
In the leaded fuel/air cooled aircraft engine world, oil lasts about 35 hours, at which point contaminates are sufficient to accelerate wear. The manual allows 100 hour oil changes, because it's safe. But not ideal with regard to wear or deposits. Testing by Shell shows that the oil's performance starts to degrade in the mid 30 hour range.
It's easy to dismiss aircraft as being a different world, but we must remember they are highly loaded engines, with some (such as mine) rated for full HP continuously. Turbochargers glow red hot for hours on end. As I mentioned above, those who get good engine life and often go many hours past overhaul (I know of one guy who has nearly 4000 hours on both his engines) , maintain their equipment well. Those who choose 100 hour oil changes sometimes don't even make the 2000 hour overhaul.
I'd have confidence that a good maintenance program will keep your stuff healthy.
You're only talking about 4800 Lbs, doesn't make sense to me to drop major coin on a 3/4 ton to do that with when you have a truck capable already.
I would spend some money an an upgraded transmission cooler, not sure if there are factory alternatives that will fit your truck but on my 98 F150, the 7.3 PSD tranny cooler will bolt right in, that is what I did as your transmission is what is going to take the beating. If you don't have a weight distribution hitch then get one.
I would spend some money an an upgraded transmission cooler, not sure if there are factory alternatives that will fit your truck but on my 98 F150, the 7.3 PSD tranny cooler will bolt right in, that is what I did as your transmission is what is going to take the beating. If you don't have a weight distribution hitch then get one.
Stick with what you have. I wouldn't even change the gearing. Taller gears generate less heat, while shorter gears give more advantage to the driveline. Do you have the 6 or or 10spd trans? Both have more than enough ratios to keep you at an optimal rpm without needing the help of shorter gearing. And, then, you have less concern about heat in the axle. Remember, the transmission is liquid cooled and probably thermostatically regulated, while the axle just hangs out in the wind. OTR drivers have told me the axle is the bigger item to watch than the trans.
Your trailer is not overly heavy for the 150. It's probably right about in the sweet spot. I've towed more with less, and owning the same truck as you I feel very comfortable towing with that vehicle. Diesel-like engine block, liquid cooled turbos, and, in my opinion, a truly excellent transmission/engine tow mode. I'm surprised by how much passing power it keeps in reserve. I can truly hold 65 if I want to on uphill grades (or more, but I have no need); it is not under powered, and due to the generous torque down low, we cruise around 2200 2400 rpm, which is very pleasant, rarely ever going over 3,000 like my last truck did all the time.
You can tell my opinion; save the money. Go aggressive on axle, trans, and tcase fluid changes and enjoy the truck.
-m
Your trailer is not overly heavy for the 150. It's probably right about in the sweet spot. I've towed more with less, and owning the same truck as you I feel very comfortable towing with that vehicle. Diesel-like engine block, liquid cooled turbos, and, in my opinion, a truly excellent transmission/engine tow mode. I'm surprised by how much passing power it keeps in reserve. I can truly hold 65 if I want to on uphill grades (or more, but I have no need); it is not under powered, and due to the generous torque down low, we cruise around 2200 2400 rpm, which is very pleasant, rarely ever going over 3,000 like my last truck did all the time.
You can tell my opinion; save the money. Go aggressive on axle, trans, and tcase fluid changes and enjoy the truck.
-m
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When you consider what went into optimizing a twin turbo to work with a 10 speed automatic transmission and then do something old school like swapping a rear gear, I think you're asking for headaches. Sure,some folks might do it but does it really work as well afterward? This ain't no 350 Chev with a TH400.
Run what you have.
Run what you have.
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Rear end ratio is a lot more important than it's being made out to be. A numerically low ratio places more stress on the transmission at the limit and makes acceleration more difficult from a stop. The difference between towing with a set of 3.27-3.31 gears compared to 3.73 to 4.10 gears can be large. The loads on the engine and transmission are greater in the lower gears, where a transmission has limited options to downshift. In first, there's nowhere to go, and then it has to upshift whether or not the next gear is optimal or not. There's no getting around the fact that a numerically lower ratio is going to rely more on engine load than mechanical advantage to roll out than a higher one.
But that's not a discussion to have about 5-6k being towed by a halfton truck.
If it were me, I would just run high quality synthetic oils and a super large transmission cooler.
But that's not a discussion to have about 5-6k being towed by a halfton truck.
If it were me, I would just run high quality synthetic oils and a super large transmission cooler.
If you don't already, use premium fuel if you can. Ford recommends in towing situations and extreme driving. Keep severe driving service schedule too.
Thanks all. I'm at work so. Can't have a lengthy response but to answer a few of the questions here, I do have a tow package good to 7600. It's the 6 speed auto. It does great with my 4800 pound trailer but I'm upgrading to a 6k pounder which is going to put my right at my max. I do already use a weight distribution setup. Thanks again.
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Couple of comments. (Disclosure: I own a 2016 F150 with 2.7 - and love it for what I do).
If you stay where you are on the trailer, you're fine.
If you upsize to the size you are talking about (and is that dry weight?), you are going to start having issues running up against payload. Typically, that is the limitation on the 2.7 trucks and not the maximum towing weight.
On the 2.7, to get the maximum towing capability (between 8000 and 8500 depending on configuration), you would need the payload package. That brings on the 3.73 gear ratio, but also: Adds heavier rear springs, upgraded the rear axle to the 9.75 from the 8.8 (at least it did on the 2016's), goes from a electric parking brake to a mechanical one. It may also net you a heavier frame, though there is not a lot of confirmation on that. Long story short, just upgrading to a 3.73 gear ratio is not the only limiting factor to your truck.
For those who comment that the gear ratio makes a large difference, note that on these trucks you go from 76-7700 lb towing capacity to 80-8500 lbs towing capacity, plus needing the payload equipment to do it. You gain 400-800 lbs of trailer weight rating - not a lot.
Part of the difference is the transmission gear ratios are a lot different than when trucks and 3 and 4 speed transmissions. On the F150, the 4R70 had a 1st gear of 2.84:1. The 6R80 went to 4.17:1. The 10R80 is now at 4.69:1, with a whole bunch of options in between. Makes the gear ratio game on the rear end a little different.
All in all, if you stay where you are, I wouldn't worry. If you upgrade, then I'd be looking bigger - either F150 with the 3.5 or a 3/4 ton.
If you stay where you are on the trailer, you're fine.
If you upsize to the size you are talking about (and is that dry weight?), you are going to start having issues running up against payload. Typically, that is the limitation on the 2.7 trucks and not the maximum towing weight.
On the 2.7, to get the maximum towing capability (between 8000 and 8500 depending on configuration), you would need the payload package. That brings on the 3.73 gear ratio, but also: Adds heavier rear springs, upgraded the rear axle to the 9.75 from the 8.8 (at least it did on the 2016's), goes from a electric parking brake to a mechanical one. It may also net you a heavier frame, though there is not a lot of confirmation on that. Long story short, just upgrading to a 3.73 gear ratio is not the only limiting factor to your truck.
For those who comment that the gear ratio makes a large difference, note that on these trucks you go from 76-7700 lb towing capacity to 80-8500 lbs towing capacity, plus needing the payload equipment to do it. You gain 400-800 lbs of trailer weight rating - not a lot.
Part of the difference is the transmission gear ratios are a lot different than when trucks and 3 and 4 speed transmissions. On the F150, the 4R70 had a 1st gear of 2.84:1. The 6R80 went to 4.17:1. The 10R80 is now at 4.69:1, with a whole bunch of options in between. Makes the gear ratio game on the rear end a little different.
All in all, if you stay where you are, I wouldn't worry. If you upgrade, then I'd be looking bigger - either F150 with the 3.5 or a 3/4 ton.
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Originally Posted by FLORIDA
I'm upgrading to a 6k pounder which is going to put my right at my max. I do already use a weight distribution setup. Thanks again.
You will be towing about the same weight I am. That won't be any trouble for the 2.7 or the 6 speed auto. The various flavors of 6 speed automatic Ford uses are all based on a ZF 6HP design that's been in heavy duty use for almost 2 decades now. It's tough and trouble free. One note on that, the 6 pass through electrical connector tends to leak after a few years, it's repaired by replacing 2 O-Rings. It can leak (pour) fluid out when parked nose up on a hill, for example, and trick people into thinking the transmission has failed. As they see no leaks afterwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_6R_transmission
Also of note, the rear end ratio won't matter much in this case, the 2.7 is sufficiently powerful and the 6R80 transmission has very wide spread of ratio's. This means plenty of pulling power nearly anywhere, including at altitude.
I'm upgrading to a 6k pounder which is going to put my right at my max. I do already use a weight distribution setup. Thanks again.
You will be towing about the same weight I am. That won't be any trouble for the 2.7 or the 6 speed auto. The various flavors of 6 speed automatic Ford uses are all based on a ZF 6HP design that's been in heavy duty use for almost 2 decades now. It's tough and trouble free. One note on that, the 6 pass through electrical connector tends to leak after a few years, it's repaired by replacing 2 O-Rings. It can leak (pour) fluid out when parked nose up on a hill, for example, and trick people into thinking the transmission has failed. As they see no leaks afterwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_6R_transmission
Also of note, the rear end ratio won't matter much in this case, the 2.7 is sufficiently powerful and the 6R80 transmission has very wide spread of ratio's. This means plenty of pulling power nearly anywhere, including at altitude.
How quickly you accelerate factors in to longevity as well. Come up to speed gradually and you stress all components to a lesser degree. Floor it all the time and wear will be accelerated by a significant factor.
As stated, run quality fluids in the engine and driveline. As well look at some E rated tires for towing stability. What you might lose in fuel economy, you gain in stability. WD hitches are nice but if the weight is placed correctly, then I would rather look at air bags or Timbrens to level the truck. My old 1500 could tow mountains but what made the biggest difference in my mind was the tires and air bags.
Tow ratings are based on a wide range of factors. Ill have to dig to see which ones it was, but there was a truck that was certified under SAE to a certain tow rating, and then had it knocked down by a few thousand lbs. because of its emergency brake capacity on an incline, as well as the performance in reverse gear.
Axle ratio makes more a difference in the way a truck toward than the capacity itself. I've towed a boat with my friend's WJ that has 3.23 gears or something like that. Was a complete dog compared to my 3.73 equipped truck. Wasn't looking to set any speed records, but his truck was taking a full minute to get to low highway speed.
But again, none of this has anything to do with his truck, hauling his load. The weight is not a challenge for his truck at all.
Axle ratio makes more a difference in the way a truck toward than the capacity itself. I've towed a boat with my friend's WJ that has 3.23 gears or something like that. Was a complete dog compared to my 3.73 equipped truck. Wasn't looking to set any speed records, but his truck was taking a full minute to get to low highway speed.
But again, none of this has anything to do with his truck, hauling his load. The weight is not a challenge for his truck at all.
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But payload will likely be a problem with the higher weight trailer he is looking to replace with. The 2.7 equipped trucks get a lower payload without the payload package, and towing near the weight limits usually maxes out payload first, not the tow weight limit. A 6250 lb trailer (again dry weight or fully loaded?) will likely be about 900 lbs of payload gone. Doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room with the lower payload on the 2.7 trucks (And I say that as I own one).
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