Are there any ACEA A5/B5 5w40 oils?
If not, why?
If not, why?
Are there any ACEA A5/B5 5w40 oils?
- Thread starter geetar
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No. A5/B5 has a HTHS viscosity limited to no more than 3.5. That's too low for a 40 grade. Well, technically a 40 grade can be lower than that, but I've never seen it. Most of the light 40 grades are 3.6-3.7 HTHS.
A3/B4 and A5/B5 must pass the exact same wear, deposit, oxidation, etc tests.
Here
https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf
A3/B4 and A5/B5 must pass the exact same wear, deposit, oxidation, etc tests.
Here
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Originally Posted by geetar
Are there any ACEA A5/B5 5w40 oils?
If not, why?
Why would you want an ACEA A5/B5 5w-40 oil?
Are there any ACEA A5/B5 5w40 oils?
If not, why?
Why would you want an ACEA A5/B5 5w-40 oil?
When I was looking for oil recommendations a long time ago I understood that the newer ACEA standards are better and backwards compatible, so I thought that it would be better to use an A5/B5, so I was curious why it didn't exist.
I use an A3/B4 5w40.
I use an A3/B4 5w40.
Originally Posted by geetar
When I was looking for oil recommendations a long time ago I understood that the newer ACEA standards are better and backwards compatible, so I thought that it would be better to use an A5/B5, so I was curious why it didn't exist.
I use an A3/B4 5w40.
A5/B5 is not "newer" than A3/B4. It's simply a different specification (lower viscosity).
When I was looking for oil recommendations a long time ago I understood that the newer ACEA standards are better and backwards compatible, so I thought that it would be better to use an A5/B5, so I was curious why it didn't exist.
I use an A3/B4 5w40.
A5/B5 is not "newer" than A3/B4. It's simply a different specification (lower viscosity).
wemay
Site Donor 2023
ACEA A3/B4 is a 40 for all intents and purposes with an HT/HS of >3.5.
ACEA A5/B5 is a usually a 30 with HT/HS up to
https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf
ACEA A5/B5 is a usually a 30 with HT/HS up to
https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
No. A5/B5 has a HTHS viscosity limited to no more than 3.5. That's too low for a 40 grade. Well, technically a 40 grade can be lower than that, but I've never seen it. Most of the light 40 grades are 3.6-3.7 HTHS.
A3/B4 and A5/B5 must pass the exact same wear, deposit, oxidation, etc tests.
Aw snap... JohnnyJohnson FTW...
Thanks for the education brother!!!
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
No. A5/B5 has a HTHS viscosity limited to no more than 3.5. That's too low for a 40 grade. Well, technically a 40 grade can be lower than that, but I've never seen it. Most of the light 40 grades are 3.6-3.7 HTHS.
A3/B4 and A5/B5 must pass the exact same wear, deposit, oxidation, etc tests.
Aw snap... JohnnyJohnson FTW...
Thanks for the education brother!!!
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
That is mislabeled. A5 has max HTHS of 3.5, and that Zepro is 3.8.
And on top of that, that Zepro lacks any manufacturer approvals.
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
That is mislabeled. A5 has max HTHS of 3.5, and that Zepro is 3.8.
And on top of that, that Zepro lacks any manufacturer approvals.
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Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
That is mislabeled. A5 has max HTHS of 3.5, and that Zepro is 3.8.
And on top of that, that Zepro lacks any manufacturer approvals.
Then why aren't they being sued for posting this?
*European OEM Approvals/Specifications: ZEPRO EURO SPEC 5W-40 meets the performance requirements of these specifications and is the appropriate fluid to use in all vehicle applications where these specifications and SAE 5W-40 viscosity grade are indicated.
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
That is mislabeled. A5 has max HTHS of 3.5, and that Zepro is 3.8.
And on top of that, that Zepro lacks any manufacturer approvals.
Then why aren't they being sued for posting this?
*European OEM Approvals/Specifications: ZEPRO EURO SPEC 5W-40 meets the performance requirements of these specifications and is the appropriate fluid to use in all vehicle applications where these specifications and SAE 5W-40 viscosity grade are indicated.
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Then why aren't they being sued for posting this?
*European OEM Approvals/Specifications: ZEPRO EURO SPEC 5W-40 meets the performance requirements of these specifications and is the appropriate fluid to use in all vehicle applications where these specifications and SAE 5W-40 viscosity grade are indicated.
You can say "meets the requirements of" as much as you want. Redline and Amsoil say the same thing, and they also lack manufacturer approvals (although Amsoil does have a few official manufacturer approvals).
I see "meets or exceeds" all the time in PCMO marketing. Means nothing.
Then why aren't they being sued for posting this?
*European OEM Approvals/Specifications: ZEPRO EURO SPEC 5W-40 meets the performance requirements of these specifications and is the appropriate fluid to use in all vehicle applications where these specifications and SAE 5W-40 viscosity grade are indicated.
You can say "meets the requirements of" as much as you want. Redline and Amsoil say the same thing, and they also lack manufacturer approvals (although Amsoil does have a few official manufacturer approvals).
I see "meets or exceeds" all the time in PCMO marketing. Means nothing.
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
That is mislabeled. A5 has max HTHS of 3.5, and that Zepro is 3.8.
And on top of that, that Zepro lacks any manufacturer approvals.
Then why aren't they being sued for posting this?
In addition to what 1JZ mentioned, claims against the ACEA Oil Sequences are made on a self-certification basis, so that makes it more difficult to enforce or sue over noncompliance.
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/zepro/5w-40
That is mislabeled. A5 has max HTHS of 3.5, and that Zepro is 3.8.
And on top of that, that Zepro lacks any manufacturer approvals.
Then why aren't they being sued for posting this?
In addition to what 1JZ mentioned, claims against the ACEA Oil Sequences are made on a self-certification basis, so that makes it more difficult to enforce or sue over noncompliance.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Or Pennzoil Euro L 5W-30 if your looking for an HT/HS of 3.5 in a 30.
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all approvals + certifications cost $$$$ per volume sold hence many better oils not paying for such, in the case of cheap no-name oils i would be concerned. any additive be it good or not that is not within guidelines will not allow an oil to display the approval anyway!
Originally Posted by benjy
all approvals + certifications cost $$$$ per volume sold hence many better oils not paying for such, in the case of cheap no-name oils i would be concerned. any additive be it good or not that is not within guidelines will not allow an oil to display the approval anyway!
No it does not. As far as I know only Dexos does, since obviously GM figure out they can make money out of that if not from making good cars.
Other manufacturers actually just want consumers to use product that will not create issues in the engine. If wrong oil is used bad marketing will not be on oil company, but engine manufacturer.
For example, approval for VW 504.00/507.00 is around $4,000.
all approvals + certifications cost $$$$ per volume sold hence many better oils not paying for such, in the case of cheap no-name oils i would be concerned. any additive be it good or not that is not within guidelines will not allow an oil to display the approval anyway!
No it does not. As far as I know only Dexos does, since obviously GM figure out they can make money out of that if not from making good cars.
Other manufacturers actually just want consumers to use product that will not create issues in the engine. If wrong oil is used bad marketing will not be on oil company, but engine manufacturer.
For example, approval for VW 504.00/507.00 is around $4,000.
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Well, technically a 40 grade can be lower than that, but I've never seen it. Most of the light 40 grades are 3.6-3.7 HTHS.
Nope. ACEA A5/B5 and SAE xW-40 are mutually exclusive. According to SAE J300 an xW-40 grade must be >3.5 cP (for x=0, 5 & 10) or >3.7 cP (for x=15, 20 & 25).
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
A3/B4 and A5/B5 must pass the exact same wear, deposit, oxidation, etc tests.
Not quite. Yes, it must pass the same tests but A5/B5 has tighter limits on oxidation with biodiesel (section 1.14), engine wear (OM646LA, section 2.7) and piston cleanliness (VW TDi, section 2.8).
A5/B5 is arguably a tougher spec than A3/B4 because it must be as good as or better than A3/B4 whilst also having lower HTHS and delivering a fuel economy benefit.
Well, technically a 40 grade can be lower than that, but I've never seen it. Most of the light 40 grades are 3.6-3.7 HTHS.
Nope. ACEA A5/B5 and SAE xW-40 are mutually exclusive. According to SAE J300 an xW-40 grade must be >3.5 cP (for x=0, 5 & 10) or >3.7 cP (for x=15, 20 & 25).
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
A3/B4 and A5/B5 must pass the exact same wear, deposit, oxidation, etc tests.
Not quite. Yes, it must pass the same tests but A5/B5 has tighter limits on oxidation with biodiesel (section 1.14), engine wear (OM646LA, section 2.7) and piston cleanliness (VW TDi, section 2.8).
A5/B5 is arguably a tougher spec than A3/B4 because it must be as good as or better than A3/B4 whilst also having lower HTHS and delivering a fuel economy benefit.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by benjy
all approvals + certifications cost $$$$ per volume sold hence many better oils not paying for such, in the case of cheap no-name oils i would be concerned. any additive be it good or not that is not within guidelines will not allow an oil to display the approval anyway!
No it does not. As far as I know only Dexos does...
Yep (and they have been doing it much longer with the Dexron ATF spec too). However, if GM can get away with it, maybe other OEMs might take a look...?
Originally Posted by edyvw
For example, approval for VW 504.00/507.00 is around $4,000.
That's just the cost of doing the paperwork. There is a significant cost to get the test data generated in order to fill in the form and pay the approval fee.
Originally Posted by benjy
all approvals + certifications cost $$$$ per volume sold hence many better oils not paying for such, in the case of cheap no-name oils i would be concerned. any additive be it good or not that is not within guidelines will not allow an oil to display the approval anyway!
No it does not. As far as I know only Dexos does...
Yep (and they have been doing it much longer with the Dexron ATF spec too). However, if GM can get away with it, maybe other OEMs might take a look...?
Originally Posted by edyvw
For example, approval for VW 504.00/507.00 is around $4,000.
That's just the cost of doing the paperwork. There is a significant cost to get the test data generated in order to fill in the form and pay the approval fee.
Originally Posted by wemay
ACEA A3/B4 is a 40 for all intents and purposes with an HT/HS of >3.5.
ACEA A5/B5 is a usually a 30 with HT/HS up to
https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf
I have an 18 Santa Fe with 2.0T...My last oil change I was able to find 5 qt. jug 5w30 Castrol Edge GDI Turbo Formula ACEA A5/B5. My Hyiundai dealer doesn't carry it and was totally unaware of the requirement to ONLY USE A5 rated oil. Their bulk oil is 5w20 and Hyundai Corp says they don't control what dealer carries???? Its time for oil change #2 and all the Castrol Edge jugs I find now are rated ACEA A1//B1 and also says GDTurboI FormulaI even though owners manual says nothing about A1/B1 being acceptable..is A1/B1 an older Spec? can it be used in place of A5/B5? Penzoil Platinum is A5/B5 but not a Penzoil fan..Buying the correct oil should not be this hard and its crazy the dealer doesn't carry what Hyundai requires.....Thank You
ACEA A3/B4 is a 40 for all intents and purposes with an HT/HS of >3.5.
ACEA A5/B5 is a usually a 30 with HT/HS up to
https://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf
I have an 18 Santa Fe with 2.0T...My last oil change I was able to find 5 qt. jug 5w30 Castrol Edge GDI Turbo Formula ACEA A5/B5. My Hyiundai dealer doesn't carry it and was totally unaware of the requirement to ONLY USE A5 rated oil. Their bulk oil is 5w20 and Hyundai Corp says they don't control what dealer carries???? Its time for oil change #2 and all the Castrol Edge jugs I find now are rated ACEA A1//B1 and also says GDTurboI FormulaI even though owners manual says nothing about A1/B1 being acceptable..is A1/B1 an older Spec? can it be used in place of A5/B5? Penzoil Platinum is A5/B5 but not a Penzoil fan..Buying the correct oil should not be this hard and its crazy the dealer doesn't carry what Hyundai requires.....Thank You
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