Who has 200k + on original GM rwd 4spd auto
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I've always heard the 4L80E was superior to the 4L60E. Is this based solely on the additional torque handling capacity or are there additional reasons this tranny is better ?
266k on a 2004R out of an 89 Caprice, about 275k on the other 2004R (with a shift kit) out of an 87 Cutlass. My friend who's an automotive technician had a 2000 Silverado with the 4.8 and 4L60E with 396k before he scrapped it. Engine and trans were still good, frame rusted out. The first 2 are in my current daily drivers.
Originally Posted by maxdustington
The 4L60 has an undeserved bad reputation. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
I have a feeling those who criticize it just hate GM trucks. I'm not saying it's perfect, I've seen more than a few trucks with a smoked 4L60. It's definitely not as durable as the SBC/LS in front of it, but it's not a bad trans.
Being in a lot of work trucks means they get abused and live short lives. I'm not sure what cars had a 4L60 during the 90s, other than Caprice/Impalas and the 4th gen F body.
700R4 and 4L60E are dodgy transmissions. I've had more of them than I can remember. Some went forever, some just self destruct for no good reason at all. Maintenance doesn't seem to matter at all. I can tell you from experience that doing a drain and fill every 20k miles from new with spec fluid will not stop one from eating itself if that is it's destiny.
Not a GM hater. Still have a 700R4 that ate it at 61k miles (now rebuilt) and a 4L60E that ate it at 106K miles. Also have a van that is going 268k on an original 4L60E.
Like I said. Very dodgy transmissions.
The 4L60 has an undeserved bad reputation. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
I have a feeling those who criticize it just hate GM trucks. I'm not saying it's perfect, I've seen more than a few trucks with a smoked 4L60. It's definitely not as durable as the SBC/LS in front of it, but it's not a bad trans.
Being in a lot of work trucks means they get abused and live short lives. I'm not sure what cars had a 4L60 during the 90s, other than Caprice/Impalas and the 4th gen F body.
700R4 and 4L60E are dodgy transmissions. I've had more of them than I can remember. Some went forever, some just self destruct for no good reason at all. Maintenance doesn't seem to matter at all. I can tell you from experience that doing a drain and fill every 20k miles from new with spec fluid will not stop one from eating itself if that is it's destiny.
Not a GM hater. Still have a 700R4 that ate it at 61k miles (now rebuilt) and a 4L60E that ate it at 106K miles. Also have a van that is going 268k on an original 4L60E.
Like I said. Very dodgy transmissions.
Originally Posted by Ammofirst
I've always heard the 4L80E was superior to the 4L60E. Is this based solely on the additional torque handling capacity or are there additional reasons this tranny is better ?
The 80E is based on the TH400 while the 700R4 that eventually became the 4L60E was a clean sheet design that was centered around fuel economy & lowering production cost.
The stamped steel Reaction Sun Shell & the small 3-4 Clutch is the Achilles Heel of 700R4/4L60E's......Torrington bearing failure rates rise sharply after 200,000 miles.
Everything in a 80E is overbuilt, Not one stamped part in the entire unit, Lots of friction area in every clutch, Oversized shafts, Heat Treated Splines, Oversized Pump etc etc.
I've always heard the 4L80E was superior to the 4L60E. Is this based solely on the additional torque handling capacity or are there additional reasons this tranny is better ?
The 80E is based on the TH400 while the 700R4 that eventually became the 4L60E was a clean sheet design that was centered around fuel economy & lowering production cost.
The stamped steel Reaction Sun Shell & the small 3-4 Clutch is the Achilles Heel of 700R4/4L60E's......Torrington bearing failure rates rise sharply after 200,000 miles.
Everything in a 80E is overbuilt, Not one stamped part in the entire unit, Lots of friction area in every clutch, Oversized shafts, Heat Treated Splines, Oversized Pump etc etc.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Ammofirst
Would like to hear from all GM owners with a rwd 4 speed auto that have 200,000 miles or more on the original transmission. Just wondering how many are out there. Thanks
More lasted to 200,000 than ones that didn't, Seeing how we are lumping the HD & LD units together......
There were MANY updates to the 4L60E......The 2005 & up being the best ones Are easily making it to 250,000. I did a "Bench" job on a 2006 4L60E from behind a 4.8L a couple weeks ago that had a little over 460,000 on it. The unit was completely worn out & wasn't rebuildable.....But goes to show what this unit is capable of in the right circumstances.
The Torrington bearing under the Input Carrier is what gave-up; The 3-4 clutches were very loose & had heavy drive tang/tab wear, The Sunshell splines were "knife edged" & about to give-up".
4L80E's can go for who knows how long with proper service, It's usually a leak/low fluid level that gets the real high mileage ones.......
What was the solution for the badly worn 4L60E that needed all those hard parts? Different transmission core for parts, or different core that got a banner kit? Or did the owner just scrap the project and vehicle?
Originally Posted by Ammofirst
Would like to hear from all GM owners with a rwd 4 speed auto that have 200,000 miles or more on the original transmission. Just wondering how many are out there. Thanks
More lasted to 200,000 than ones that didn't, Seeing how we are lumping the HD & LD units together......
There were MANY updates to the 4L60E......The 2005 & up being the best ones Are easily making it to 250,000. I did a "Bench" job on a 2006 4L60E from behind a 4.8L a couple weeks ago that had a little over 460,000 on it. The unit was completely worn out & wasn't rebuildable.....But goes to show what this unit is capable of in the right circumstances.
The Torrington bearing under the Input Carrier is what gave-up; The 3-4 clutches were very loose & had heavy drive tang/tab wear, The Sunshell splines were "knife edged" & about to give-up".
4L80E's can go for who knows how long with proper service, It's usually a leak/low fluid level that gets the real high mileage ones.......
What was the solution for the badly worn 4L60E that needed all those hard parts? Different transmission core for parts, or different core that got a banner kit? Or did the owner just scrap the project and vehicle?
I've got a buddy with a 4L60E in a 1500 Suburban that is near 300k with no issues. I had a 99 Silverado with a 4L60E that very early in life had an issue with the sun shell that was considered a defect and was fixed under warranty. After that, I drove it to about 120k before selling it to my secretary. Her husband still has it and it is approaching 300k with no major repairs on anything, including no issues with the engine or transmission. Man, I miss that truck. It had the original 270hp version of the 5.3, but for some reason, felt stronger than the most recent 1500 Silverados I've driven with the 5.3. Maybe the truck was much lighter. I don't know, but that 99 hauled the bacon. Great truck.
I had a 2008 15 passenger Chevy van with the 4L80E. It had some kind of problem and my wife ignored the warning light, finally pulling over when it was bucking and lurching. I don't remember what the problem was, but the tech told me that if she'd heeded the light, it would have been a simple repair. Because she didn't, it dumped the fluid and ate itself. Remarkably, with 115k on it, which was well past the warranty, GM agreed to cover the transmission if I paid the labor. Done. (I never asked them to warrant it, knowing my wife contributed to its untimely demise.) We traded that van about a year later on our Transit 350. Btw, I towed a 26' deck boat with that Chevy. It was a brute and was long as a semi with that boat on the back, but it towed that big boat very well.
I had a 2008 15 passenger Chevy van with the 4L80E. It had some kind of problem and my wife ignored the warning light, finally pulling over when it was bucking and lurching. I don't remember what the problem was, but the tech told me that if she'd heeded the light, it would have been a simple repair. Because she didn't, it dumped the fluid and ate itself. Remarkably, with 115k on it, which was well past the warranty, GM agreed to cover the transmission if I paid the labor. Done. (I never asked them to warrant it, knowing my wife contributed to its untimely demise.) We traded that van about a year later on our Transit 350. Btw, I towed a 26' deck boat with that Chevy. It was a brute and was long as a semi with that boat on the back, but it towed that big boat very well.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Ammofirst
Would like to hear from all GM owners with a rwd 4 speed auto that have 200,000 miles or more on the original transmission. Just wondering how many are out there. Thanks
More lasted to 200,000 than ones that didn't, Seeing how we are lumping the HD & LD units together......
There were MANY updates to the 4L60E......The 2005 & up being the best ones Are easily making it to 250,000. I did a "Bench" job on a 2006 4L60E from behind a 4.8L a couple weeks ago that had a little over 460,000 on it. The unit was completely worn out & wasn't rebuildable.....But goes to show what this unit is capable of in the right circumstances.
The Torrington bearing under the Input Carrier is what gave-up; The 3-4 clutches were very loose & had heavy drive tang/tab wear, The Sunshell splines were "knife edged" & about to give-up".
4L80E's can go for who knows how long with proper service, It's usually a leak/low fluid level that gets the real high mileage ones.......
What was the solution for the badly worn 4L60E that needed all those hard parts? Different transmission core for parts, or different core that got a banner kit? Or did the owner just scrap the project and vehicle?
I have a stock pile of 4L60E's from behind 4.3L V6's from doing 5.3L & 6.0L conversions on GMT800 trucks. As you probably know.....Most RCSB GMT800's have a 4.3L from the factory.
The trans used behind the 4.3L is known as a 298mm & the unit behind LSx engines are known as 300mm. The Bellhousing, Turbine Shaft, & Stator Support are different between the two versions.
*The Bellhosing isn't a wear item so it can be reused.
*I buy a new GM Input Drum that includes a new 300mm Turbine/Input Shaft.....Runs @$125.00.
*I buy a 300mm Stator Support from Sonnax.....Runs @$70.00.
*I donate the core with a rebuild.
A worn out but "maybe" rebuildable 300mm core runs right at $250-$300, And they could easily need a Stator Support & Input Drum.
For right now, My stock pile of known good cores is working out great, When that's exhausted......Customers will have to pay the piper as I'm no longer actively doing conversions.
These are clients/business owners that I've worked with for decades. The particular truck I mentioned is owned by a company that owns & stocks Vending Machines. Has a Lift Gate & Custom Tool Boxes.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by Ammofirst
Would like to hear from all GM owners with a rwd 4 speed auto that have 200,000 miles or more on the original transmission. Just wondering how many are out there. Thanks
More lasted to 200,000 than ones that didn't, Seeing how we are lumping the HD & LD units together......
There were MANY updates to the 4L60E......The 2005 & up being the best ones Are easily making it to 250,000. I did a "Bench" job on a 2006 4L60E from behind a 4.8L a couple weeks ago that had a little over 460,000 on it. The unit was completely worn out & wasn't rebuildable.....But goes to show what this unit is capable of in the right circumstances.
The Torrington bearing under the Input Carrier is what gave-up; The 3-4 clutches were very loose & had heavy drive tang/tab wear, The Sunshell splines were "knife edged" & about to give-up".
4L80E's can go for who knows how long with proper service, It's usually a leak/low fluid level that gets the real high mileage ones.......
What was the solution for the badly worn 4L60E that needed all those hard parts? Different transmission core for parts, or different core that got a banner kit? Or did the owner just scrap the project and vehicle?
I have a stock pile of 4L60E's from behind 4.3L V6's from doing 5.3L & 6.0L conversions on GMT800 trucks. As you probably know.....Most RCSB GMT800's have a 4.3L from the factory.
The trans used behind the 4.3L is known as a 298mm & the unit behind LSx engines are known as 300mm. The Bellhousing, Turbine Shaft, & Stator Support are different between the two versions.
*The Bellhosing isn't a wear item so it can be reused.
*I buy a new GM Input Drum that includes a new 300mm Turbine/Input Shaft.....Runs @$125.00.
*I buy a 300mm Stator Support from Sonnax.....Runs @$70.00.
*I donate the core with a rebuild.
A worn out but "maybe" rebuildable 300mm core runs right at $250-$300, And they could easily need a Stator Support & Input Drum.
For right now, My stock pile of known good cores is working out great, When that's exhausted......Customers will have to pay the piper as I'm no longer actively doing conversions.
These are clients/business owners that I've worked with for decades. The particular truck I mentioned is owned by a company that owns & stocks Vending Machines. Has a Lift Gate & Custom Tool Boxes.
They Chevy passenger van was one of the few "long" vans to have it's wheels so close to the rear bumper. That gave it incredible stability when towing.
I have a 2002 Tahoe 5.3L with the 4L60E at 239k miles. Still going strong.
Originally Posted by maxdustington
The 4L60 has an undeserved bad reputation. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
I have a feeling those who criticize it just hate GM trucks. I'm not saying it's perfect, I've seen more than a few trucks with a smoked 4L60. It's definitely not as durable as the SBC/LS in front of it, but it's not a bad trans.
Being in a lot of work trucks means they get abused and live short lives. I'm not sure what cars had a 4L60 during the 90s, other than Caprice/Impalas and the 4th gen F body.
My '93 Camaro has a 4L60. With a bone stock 275 hp LT1, it burned up two 4L60s. The first went at 105k miles, had it rebuilt, and went out again at 158k miles. The same 3-4 clutch failure both times. Nothing quite like racing somebody, being ahead, and then about 800 ft out, it decides to become a powerglide with extra neutrals. I ditched it and swapped in a TH350. I will admit though that I was very abusive to that transmission with a lot of burnouts and 1/4 mile drag passes.
Originally Posted by maxdustington
The 4L60 has an undeserved bad reputation. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
I have a feeling those who criticize it just hate GM trucks. I'm not saying it's perfect, I've seen more than a few trucks with a smoked 4L60. It's definitely not as durable as the SBC/LS in front of it, but it's not a bad trans.
Being in a lot of work trucks means they get abused and live short lives. I'm not sure what cars had a 4L60 during the 90s, other than Caprice/Impalas and the 4th gen F body.
My '93 Camaro has a 4L60. With a bone stock 275 hp LT1, it burned up two 4L60s. The first went at 105k miles, had it rebuilt, and went out again at 158k miles. The same 3-4 clutch failure both times. Nothing quite like racing somebody, being ahead, and then about 800 ft out, it decides to become a powerglide with extra neutrals. I ditched it and swapped in a TH350. I will admit though that I was very abusive to that transmission with a lot of burnouts and 1/4 mile drag passes.
My 1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon has 233k on it and I've owned it since it had 90k miles on it and I've only ever changed fluids and filters. Still shifts great. I even towed a 5600 lb travel trailer with it for a few years, about 8k miles of towing that trailer total over those years. It does have a bigger cooler and an external filter.
I have an early 1993 Chevy pick up that has probably one of the first 4l60e's ever built. It's getting close to 300,000 miles on it and is still functioning like new. It has received regular fluid and filter changes since new. I also have a 2007 GMC Canyon with a 4l60e that has 210,000 miles on it. It is still working like new. It has been serviced per the owners manual for the most part.
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