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11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit #4970956
01/05/19 11:13 PM
01/05/19 11:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Mathew_Boss Offline OP
Mathew_Boss  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Went longer on the Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 HM. I think it looks good. WIX filter was used for this change. FRAM Ultra went on next for the 7.5k run. The first analysis scared me. I'm happy with the way its gone since I switched to Pennzoil Platinum HM 0W-20.

Attached PDF document
5k Miles WIX.pdf (221 downloads)

125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4970991
01/06/19 12:15 AM
01/06/19 12:15 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,844
Tri State Conservative
Zee09 Offline
Zee09  Offline

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1,844
Tri State Conservative
Over the life of this vehicle have you had many mechanical issues?


"If I walked on water, they'd say I couldn't swim."
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Zee09] #4971084
01/06/19 06:04 AM
01/06/19 06:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Mathew_Boss Offline OP
Mathew_Boss  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Zee09
Over the life of this vehicle have you had many mechanical issues?


Probably more than average though some was my own doing. Altinater, 3rd water pump (my fault), battery, exhausted leak (broken bolt), The transfer case switch got stuck in Neutral because my wife kept putting her purse on the electronic button amd the spring broke. They redesigned the switch to the point I had to replace the Center Console Bezel to install the new larger switch. And the PCV valve went out around 100k miles but that was only like a 5min fix, and the oil filler cap failed (oil was. Coming up through the cap seal). This is the first High Mileage vehicle I have ever owned so i am not sure if that's above average for my miles or not. We like it and it's never left us sit anywhere. It took a while to get oil consumption under control.


125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4974775
01/10/19 05:21 AM
01/10/19 05:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,276
PA
Gasbuggy Offline
Gasbuggy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,276
PA
Your engine seems happy. But tbn already 2.5 and Blackstone is predicting 10k runs? Near 6000 SUV with MDS lifters, they shouldn't be looking for extended intervals.

What oil was your other sample?


Cadillac CTS-V 6.2L 10w30PP
Volvo P1800 5w30 Euro L
LR Series III 10w40 VWB
76' 300D Edge 0w40
02 Yukon 10w30 PP
10 Charger Pursuit 5.7L
95 Accord - 386k. Mobil 2 RIP
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Gasbuggy] #4974776
01/10/19 05:27 AM
01/10/19 05:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Mathew_Boss Offline OP
Mathew_Boss  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
Your engine seems happy. But tbn already 2.5 and Blackstone is predicting 10k runs? Near 6000 SUV with MDS lifters, they shouldn't be looking for extended intervals.

What oil was your other sample?



The first sample is Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage 5W-20, the rest are Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 0W-20. This engine definitely like the Pennzoil better.


125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4974797
01/10/19 06:36 AM
01/10/19 06:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 483
Chicagoland
Skippy722 Offline
Skippy722  Offline

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 483
Chicagoland
In regards to your 3 water pumps... that’s about average for your mileage. The issue was so bad FCA extended the warranty on 2013-2017 models to 7 years/unlimited mileage.

Mine failed at 57k, 3 days after I brought it home from the dealer. 2nd one made it till at least 105k when I traded it in. But mine also has the broken exhaust manifold studs.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4974806
01/10/19 07:00 AM
01/10/19 07:00 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,811
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,811
Indianapolis, IN
There is a lot of variation in the wear Fe. The other metals are low enough to not concern ourselves with and very steady; ignore them.
Regarding the Fe, the first sample was at 8ppm/1k miles; that's a bit high to be honest.
Second sample at 4ppm/1k miles.
Third sample at 3ppm/1k miles.

Is the first sample an anomaly? Don't know this particular engine well enough. More samples need to be taken. These engines (not all of them, but many of them) use that multi-displacement fuel saving concept. I am not intimately familiar with how the system works, but I presume it shuts down cylinders and somehow alters cam/valve actions. I know we've lost many cams to this design at the SO where I work. It's a known phenomenon. The reason I bring this up is because your driving patterns and behaviors will affect the wear in Fe. More steady state driving will actually make the fuel management system shut down cylinders more often. This is not unique to the 5.7L Hemis; I see clear evidence of escalated Fe in many of the Vortec GM engines that use a similar valve deactivation system. However, the Vortect engines don't seem to eat cams like the Hemis do. Some engine designs with reasonably simple architecture have very low wear rates. Both of my 4.6L 2v engines in our Grand Marquis have wear rate of Fe 1ppm/1k miles or so. But they have very simple designs that don't use any fancy tech, and therefor have reasonably steady lube system performance.

My point is that the 8ppm/1k miles is high; the others a bit more "normal" for that Hemi design. Suggesting 10k mile OCIs is not out of the question, but I'd ease up there and not jump right to it. Work you way up methodically using UOAs as your guide.


Also, the water pumps are a consumable replaced on these Hemi engines at a rate far faster than many other brands/types, IMO. But that's a side topic not related to lube AFAIK.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: dnewton3] #4974920
01/10/19 09:34 AM
01/10/19 09:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Mathew_Boss Offline OP
Mathew_Boss  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Originally Posted by dnewton3
There is a lot of variation in the wear Fe. The other metals are low enough to not concern ourselves with and very steady; ignore them.
Regarding the Fe, the first sample was at 8ppm/1k miles; that's a bit high to be honest.
Second sample at 4ppm/1k miles.
Third sample at 3ppm/1k miles.

Is the first sample an anomaly? Don't know this particular engine well enough. More samples need to be taken. These engines (not all of them, but many of them) use that multi-displacement fuel saving concept. I am not intimately familiar with how the system works, but I presume it shuts down cylinders and somehow alters cam/valve actions. I know we've lost many cams to this design at the SO where I work. It's a known phenomenon. The reason I bring this up is because your driving patterns and behaviors will affect the wear in Fe. More steady state driving will actually make the fuel management system shut down cylinders more often. This is not unique to the 5.7L Hemis; I see clear evidence of escalated Fe in many of the Vortec GM engines that use a similar valve deactivation system. However, the Vortect engines don't seem to eat cams like the Hemis do. Some engine designs with reasonably simple architecture have very low wear rates. Both of my 4.6L 2v engines in our Grand Marquis have wear rate of Fe 1ppm/1k miles or so. But they have very simple designs that don't use any fancy tech, and therefor have reasonably steady lube system performance.

My point is that the 8ppm/1k miles is high; the others a bit more "normal" for that Hemi design. Suggesting 10k mile OCIs is not out of the question, but I'd ease up there and not jump right to it. Work you way up methodically using UOAs as your guide.


Also, the water pumps are a consumable replaced on these Hemi engines at a rate far faster than many other brands/types, IMO. But that's a side topic not related to lube AFAIK.




The first sample was a different brand of oil. Thoes amounts concerned me too but the Pennzoil has been much better.


125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4975635
01/10/19 10:56 PM
01/10/19 10:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,888
Maricopa, Arizona.
dave1251 Online happy
dave1251  Online Happy

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,888
Maricopa, Arizona.
Originally Posted by Mathew_Boss
Originally Posted by dnewton3
There is a lot of variation in the wear Fe. The other metals are low enough to not concern ourselves with and very steady; ignore them.
Regarding the Fe, the first sample was at 8ppm/1k miles; that's a bit high to be honest.
Second sample at 4ppm/1k miles.
Third sample at 3ppm/1k miles.

Is the first sample an anomaly? Don't know this particular engine well enough. More samples need to be taken. These engines (not all of them, but many of them) use that multi-displacement fuel saving concept. I am not intimately familiar with how the system works, but I presume it shuts down cylinders and somehow alters cam/valve actions. I know we've lost many cams to this design at the SO where I work. It's a known phenomenon. The reason I bring this up is because your driving patterns and behaviors will affect the wear in Fe. More steady state driving will actually make the fuel management system shut down cylinders more often. This is not unique to the 5.7L Hemis; I see clear evidence of escalated Fe in many of the Vortec GM engines that use a similar valve deactivation system. However, the Vortect engines don't seem to eat cams like the Hemis do. Some engine designs with reasonably simple architecture have very low wear rates. Both of my 4.6L 2v engines in our Grand Marquis have wear rate of Fe 1ppm/1k miles or so. But they have very simple designs that don't use any fancy tech, and therefor have reasonably steady lube system performance.

My point is that the 8ppm/1k miles is high; the others a bit more "normal" for that Hemi design. Suggesting 10k mile OCIs is not out of the question, but I'd ease up there and not jump right to it. Work you way up methodically using UOAs as your guide.


Also, the water pumps are a consumable replaced on these Hemi engines at a rate far faster than many other brands/types, IMO. But that's a side topic not related to lube AFAIK.




The first sample was a different brand of oil. Thoes amounts concerned me too but the Pennzoil has been much better.



You could try 5W30 a slightly thicker lube will likely cause your iron numbers to drop and will not affect MDS.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: dave1251] #4990645
01/25/19 04:53 PM
01/25/19 04:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Mathew_Boss Offline OP
Mathew_Boss  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 195
Nebraska
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Mathew_Boss
Originally Posted by dnewton3
There is a lot of variation in the wear Fe. The other metals are low enough to not concern ourselves with and very steady; ignore them.
Regarding the Fe, the first sample was at 8ppm/1k miles; that's a bit high to be honest.
Second sample at 4ppm/1k miles.
Third sample at 3ppm/1k miles.

Is the first sample an anomaly? Don't know this particular engine well enough. More samples need to be taken. These engines (not all of them, but many of them) use that multi-displacement fuel saving concept. I am not intimately familiar with how the system works, but I presume it shuts down cylinders and somehow alters cam/valve actions. I know we've lost many cams to this design at the SO where I work. It's a known phenomenon. The reason I bring this up is because your driving patterns and behaviors will affect the wear in Fe. More steady state driving will actually make the fuel management system shut down cylinders more often. This is not unique to the 5.7L Hemis; I see clear evidence of escalated Fe in many of the Vortec GM engines that use a similar valve deactivation system. However, the Vortect engines don't seem to eat cams like the Hemis do. Some engine designs with reasonably simple architecture have very low wear rates. Both of my 4.6L 2v engines in our Grand Marquis have wear rate of Fe 1ppm/1k miles or so. But they have very simple designs that don't use any fancy tech, and therefor have reasonably steady lube system performance.

My point is that the 8ppm/1k miles is high; the others a bit more "normal" for that Hemi design. Suggesting 10k mile OCIs is not out of the question, but I'd ease up there and not jump right to it. Work you way up methodically using UOAs as your guide.


Also, the water pumps are a consumable replaced on these Hemi engines at a rate far faster than many other brands/types, IMO. But that's a side topic not related to lube AFAIK.




The first sample was a different brand of oil. Thoes amounts concerned me too but the Pennzoil has been much better.



You could try 5W30 a slightly thicker lube will likely cause your iron numbers to drop and will not affect MDS.



I thought 5W30 made the check engine light go off in 5.7L Hemis with MDS?


125k Mile 11 Dodge Durango 5.7L Hemi PP HM or QSUD 5w20 or 0w20 w/Purolator Boss or Wix XP

40k Mile 2015 Dodge Charger 3.6L Pentastar Pennzoil Platinum or QSUD 0/5W20, or 5W30
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4990674
01/25/19 05:31 PM
01/25/19 05:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,197
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,197
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Mathew_Boss


I thought 5W30 made the check engine light go off in 5.7L Hemis with MDS?


Generally, no. User Clevy on here had a Charger that he ran 0w-40 in and was able to get the viscosity code when it was -35C, but that was the only time.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #4991033
01/26/19 12:22 AM
01/26/19 12:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 483
Chicagoland
Skippy722 Offline
Skippy722  Offline

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 483
Chicagoland
And they run 0w40 in the 6.4 that also has MDS.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Mathew_Boss] #5000556
02/03/19 05:41 PM
02/03/19 05:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,276
PA
Gasbuggy Offline
Gasbuggy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,276
PA
Hey, FYI, I had a Vendor on the ChargerForums, who makes and sells a custom oil for these MDS Hemi's correct me on the Charger forum. (I just bought a 2010 Charger Pursuit with the 5.7)

For anyone thinking that the system is the same between the different displacement Hemi engines, this is what I was told regarding running the Pennzoil SRT 0w40 in the 5.7

"No, you need a 5w20 for bleed down in .04 seconds and also the VVT."

"The orifices on the 5.7L MDS are different than the 6.4L Hemi MDS orifices and therefore will function differently. One for the 5.7L (5w20) and 0w40 for the 6.4L The thickest we were able to provide on the 5.7L Hemi is 7.5w25 but still had intermittent functionality so we backed it down to 7.5w23 and that functions great in the 5.7L Hemi V8. We have provided oil for these engines well over 14,000 of them with Jed's OCD being one of them both non-eagle and eagle. We kept it the same on the Eagle engine like what you have when they added Variable Valve Timing."


Cadillac CTS-V 6.2L 10w30PP
Volvo P1800 5w30 Euro L
LR Series III 10w40 VWB
76' 300D Edge 0w40
02 Yukon 10w30 PP
10 Charger Pursuit 5.7L
95 Accord - 386k. Mobil 2 RIP
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: Gasbuggy] #5000579
02/03/19 06:03 PM
02/03/19 06:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,197
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,197
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
Hey, FYI, I had a Vendor on the ChargerForums, who makes and sells a custom oil for these MDS Hemi's correct me on the Charger forum. (I just bought a 2010 Charger Pursuit with the 5.7)

For anyone thinking that the system is the same between the different displacement Hemi engines, this is what I was told regarding running the Pennzoil SRT 0w40 in the 5.7

"No, you need a 5w20 for bleed down in .04 seconds and also the VVT."

"The orifices on the 5.7L MDS are different than the 6.4L Hemi MDS orifices and therefore will function differently. One for the 5.7L (5w20) and 0w40 for the 6.4L The thickest we were able to provide on the 5.7L Hemi is 7.5w25 but still had intermittent functionality so we backed it down to 7.5w23 and that functions great in the 5.7L Hemi V8. We have provided oil for these engines well over 14,000 of them with Jed's OCD being one of them both non-eagle and eagle. We kept it the same on the Eagle engine like what you have when they added Variable Valve Timing."


Given that none of those grades exist, I'd take the rest of it with a massive grain of salt. The part numbers for the MDS components, including the lifters, are identical between the 6.4L and the 5.7L BTW, which you can verify on the Mopar parts shop. The primary difference between the two engines appears to be camshaft and spring pressure. Otherwise, the parts are all the same. The programming is of course different, but that's not a physical thing.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: 11 Dodge Durango 5.7 5k Oil 131k Unit [Re: OVERKILL] #5000606
02/03/19 06:35 PM
02/03/19 06:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,333
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,333
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
Hey, FYI, I had a Vendor on the ChargerForums, who makes and sells a custom oil for these MDS Hemi's correct me on the Charger forum. (I just bought a 2010 Charger Pursuit with the 5.7)

For anyone thinking that the system is the same between the different displacement Hemi engines, this is what I was told regarding running the Pennzoil SRT 0w40 in the 5.7

"No, you need a 5w20 for bleed down in .04 seconds and also the VVT."

"The orifices on the 5.7L MDS are different than the 6.4L Hemi MDS orifices and therefore will function differently. One for the 5.7L (5w20) and 0w40 for the 6.4L The thickest we were able to provide on the 5.7L Hemi is 7.5w25 but still had intermittent functionality so we backed it down to 7.5w23 and that functions great in the 5.7L Hemi V8. We have provided oil for these engines well over 14,000 of them with Jed's OCD being one of them both non-eagle and eagle. We kept it the same on the Eagle engine like what you have when they added Variable Valve Timing."


Given that none of those grades exist, I'd take the rest of it with a massive grain of salt. The part numbers for the MDS components, including the lifters, are identical between the 6.4L and the 5.7L BTW, which you can verify on the Mopar parts shop. The primary difference between the two engines appears to be camshaft and spring pressure. Otherwise, the parts are all the same. The programming is of course different, but that's not a physical thing.




Brian has a lot of info, but as far as functionality we Hemi owners have been dancing on this issue since 04. He makes excellent oil in bizarre grades that really holds up per real world analysis. But I know hemis with 200k miles on them running 40w oils. I also own 2. There are only the most insignificant variations in MDS performance from most oils. It simply is not an issue that will ever be noticed unless you analyze things to the 4th decimal place like Brian does.


The real world facts are that new gen Hemis run great on almost any oil.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
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