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Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning #4968666
01/03/19 10:53 AM
01/03/19 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,714
Idaho
SubLGT Offline OP
SubLGT  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,714
Idaho
https://www.autonews.com/blogs/porsche-hopes-new-wet-mode-will-solve-911s-hydroplaning-problem

Quote
..."People drive too fast in the rain and are not aware of how close they are to the aquaplaning threshold," Morbitzer said, adding this was especially true for 911 customers......The best solution was to simply reduce speed and switch to the slow lane, but Porsche 911 drivers are not accustomed to this ...

...All new 911s will now come standard with a new safety system. Miniature microphone sensors analyze indirectly the intensity of the water on the road splashed up into the front wheel arches. Depending on the current speed, the vehicle can recommend the driver to activate the so-called "wet mode."

If activated, the vehicle starts to prepare itself for potential hydroplaning. Engine torque buildup is reduced, its distribution biased to the smaller front wheels for greater stability, and aero flaps open to create greater downforce. Actuating systems for safety features like Porsche stability management (PSM) and Porsche traction management (PTM) are lowered...

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968676
01/03/19 11:09 AM
01/03/19 11:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,103
SW Ontario Canada
KGMtech Offline
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SW Ontario Canada
Less expensive models can be equipped with a Mother-in-law feature that is prompted to scream: "Slow Down you Idiot !!"


2017.5 Nissan Rogue SV FWD
2013 Nissan Maxima SV
2009 Ford Flex SEL FWD
1984 Yamaha XJ750RL
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968677
01/03/19 11:09 AM
01/03/19 11:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
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Atlanta,GA
This tells me that Porsche is seeing a shift in the type of buyer for the 911. It's a buyer who's more interested in the panache of owning a 911 rather than actual driving of one.

hide

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 01/03/19 11:09 AM.

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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4968680
01/03/19 11:12 AM
01/03/19 11:12 AM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This tells me that Porsche is seeing a shift in the type of buyer for the 911. It's a buyer who's more interested in the panache of owning a 911 rather than actual driving of one.

hide

I think that same analogy can be applied to all the luxury brands.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968683
01/03/19 11:15 AM
01/03/19 11:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,501
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
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PA
Intredasting!


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968688
01/03/19 11:19 AM
01/03/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,534
St. Louis
MONKEYMAN Offline
MONKEYMAN  Offline
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St. Louis
In other news a Porsche was passed by a Prius in a Thunderstorm...


Truth alone triumphs, not untruth.

2017 Elantra SE
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968693
01/03/19 11:24 AM
01/03/19 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,723
The Motor City
Kestas Online content
Kestas  Online Content
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The Motor City
Another solution in search of a problem, introduced by german engineers with idle hands.

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968707
01/03/19 11:44 AM
01/03/19 11:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
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Colorado Springs


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968715
01/03/19 11:54 AM
01/03/19 11:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,983
...
PimTac Offline
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...
My first thought on this was that it is a variation of a modern awd system used for this purpose but reading the article it is based on sound sensors in the wheel wells. The resulting effect is similar though.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968720
01/03/19 11:57 AM
01/03/19 11:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,477
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
AWD+large, low profile, likely summer tires+non-dry conditions+add a dash of driver stupidity=crash!


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: MONKEYMAN] #4968723
01/03/19 12:00 PM
01/03/19 12:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,477
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted by MONKEYMAN
In other news a Porsche was passed by a Prius in a Thunderstorm...
Nothing more fun than being next to a Porsche or other “HP” car in a snowstorm-as long as they don’t go sideways and hit you! Fortunately nanny traction control usually stops them (usually literally).


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4968757
01/03/19 12:38 PM
01/03/19 12:38 PM
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Posts: 11,501
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d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This tells me that Porsche is seeing a shift in the type of buyer for the 911. It's a buyer who's more interested in the panache of owning a 911 rather than actual driving of one.

hide

1. Pretty sure panache has been more important than driving for a long time now.
2. It says what the shift was in the article: wider tires, more focus on dry performance.

This isn't about panache winning over driving. It's about people wanting bigger numbers rather than that make actual sense in the real world.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968761
01/03/19 12:41 PM
01/03/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,328
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,328
Lyndhurst NJ
Another unneccesary safety device that will only raise insurance rates and increase repairs. All of this overengineering now is getting ridiculous.


2002 VW Golf TDI-Mobil 1 5/40 TDT
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI Fuchs 5/40 GT Pro XTL
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968770
01/03/19 12:58 PM
01/03/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,501
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
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Guys.

You all know this is a selectable mode, right?

Like... It's not a thing that's always on and impossible to defeat. It's a light that comes on sometimes, does literally nothing else unless you press the button, and then stops doing things the moment you press the button again.

I agree it shouldn't be necessary but you guys are whining like it's a horseman of the automotive apocalypse. Calm down.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: Audios] #4968771
01/03/19 12:58 PM
01/03/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 410
Michigan
khittner Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 410
Michigan
What will an aftermarket fender-well rain sensor cost at RockAuto?

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968779
01/03/19 01:05 PM
01/03/19 01:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,723
The Motor City
Kestas Online content
Kestas  Online Content
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The Motor City
Another thought... this could be another sensor introduced in anticipation of autonomous vehicles. It would field test new technology in real world situations, like the industry is doing with radar braking, self steering, and lane change technology. Porsche simply put a "we care about you" spin on this technology so they can smugly tout how they care about your safety.

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4968780
01/03/19 01:07 PM
01/03/19 01:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys.

You all know this is a selectable mode, right?

Like... It's not a thing that's always on and impossible to defeat. It's a light that comes on sometimes, does literally nothing else unless you press the button, and then stops doing things the moment you press the button again.

I agree it shouldn't be necessary but you guys are whining like it's a horseman of the automotive apocalypse. Calm down.


lol..ya but I suspect default mode is "active" just like traction control.


'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 0w30.
Prev
'10 335d
'06 330i
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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: Kestas] #4968784
01/03/19 01:11 PM
01/03/19 01:11 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
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Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted by Kestas
Another thought... this could be another sensor introduced in anticipation of autonomous vehicles. It would field test new technology in real world situations, like the industry is doing with radar braking, self steering, and lane change technology. Porsche simply put a "we care about you" spin on this technology so they can smugly tout how they care about your safety.


That's been one of the biggest questions so far. How well an autonomous motor vehicle know how to react to the weather and other driving conditions?


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4968802
01/03/19 01:23 PM
01/03/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,027
PA,US
HemiHawk Offline
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PA,US
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys.

You all know this is a selectable mode, right?

Like... It's not a thing that's always on and impossible to defeat. It's a light that comes on sometimes, does literally nothing else unless you press the button, and then stops doing things the moment you press the button again.

I agree it shouldn't be necessary but you guys are whining like it's a horseman of the automotive apocalypse. Calm down.


Exactly. Everyone here acting like the best drivers in the world, they don't need no stinkin safety nannies! Sure, not on your chrysler lebaron woody with 87hp LOL

Quote
If activated, the vehicle starts to prepare itself for potential hydroplaning. Engine torque buildup is reduced, its distribution biased to the smaller front wheels for greater stability, and aero flaps open to create greater downforce. Actuating systems for safety features like Porsche stability management (PSM) and Porsche traction management (PTM) are lowered.


This is just cool tech. Is it something else to break? Yea probably. But its also on $100k plus cars not Kia's.


2016 Nissan Frontier Pro4x
2017 VW GTI sport
1995 Mustang GTS
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: Kestas] #4968805
01/03/19 01:24 PM
01/03/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,983
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PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
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Originally Posted by Kestas
Another thought... this could be another sensor introduced in anticipation of autonomous vehicles. It would field test new technology in real world situations, like the industry is doing with radar braking, self steering, and lane change technology. Porsche simply put a "we care about you" spin on this technology so they can smugly tout how they care about your safety.

Good point. One of the scenarios I have questioned regarding autonomous vehicles is how they would react to black ice or similar slippery traction among others.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4968860
01/03/19 02:12 PM
01/03/19 02:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 669
Anaheim, CA
zorobabel Offline
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Anaheim, CA
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This tells me that Porsche is seeing a shift in the type of buyer for the 911. It's a buyer who's more interested in the panache of owning a 911 rather than actual driving of one.

hide

I'm sure they're seeing the shift, so why bother with this wet mode, when the "new Porsche owner" is just hogging the left lane...


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968945
01/03/19 03:50 PM
01/03/19 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 479
Ajax,Ontario, Canada
Pelican Offline
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Ajax,Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by SubLGT
https://www.autonews.com/blogs/porsche-hopes-new-wet-mode-will-solve-911s-hydroplaning-problem
Quote
..."People drive too fast in the rain and are not aware of how close they are to the aquaplaning threshold," Morbitzer said, adding this was especially true for 911 customers......The best solution was to simply reduce speed and switch to the slow lane, but Porsche 911 drivers are not accustomed to this ...
...All new 911s will now come standard with a new safety system. Miniature microphone sensors analyze indirectly the intensity of the water on the road splashed up into the front wheel arches. Depending on the current speed, the vehicle can recommend the driver to activate the so-called "wet mode."
If activated, the vehicle starts to prepare itself for potential hydroplaning. Engine torque buildup is reduced, its distribution biased to the smaller front wheels for greater stability, and aero flaps open to create greater downforce. Actuating systems for safety features like Porsche stability management (PSM) and Porsche traction management (PTM) are lowered...


Mine has a system that can be transferred from car to car it's called "My Right Foot" it works wonderfully especially when connected to the optional "Common Sense" application, that makes it foolproof !

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4968968
01/03/19 04:16 PM
01/03/19 04:16 PM
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US
JLTD Offline
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This tells me that Porsche is seeing a shift in the type of buyer for the 911. It's a buyer who's more interested in the panache of owning a 911 rather than actual driving of one.

hide



No need to hide on that comment...idiots with money, rather than enthusiasts, are getting behind the wheel for the image alone and don't know how to drive a 1972 Datsun B210, much less a Porsche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdLHAqL8KJw


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4968978
01/03/19 04:27 PM
01/03/19 04:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 299
Huntington WV
dbias Offline
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Huntington WV


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4969176
01/03/19 07:57 PM
01/03/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 344
California
vavavroom Offline
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California
It's just a more advanced version of traction control. Hydroplaning does not announce itself clearly in advance to the driver and can occur already at 35 mph. Does nobody here go over 35mph when the road is wet? A Porsche has rather wide tires, probably in a staggered setup, which makes the vehicle especially prone to hydroplaning. Given the technical possibility, why wouldn’t a manufacturer include an implementable safety feature? Most drivers, and just because someone drives a Porsche he can’t be expected to be a professional driver, will be better off with the additional safety feature. As for all the idiot drivers, most of them don’t drive a Porsche but some other hooptie. 90% of drivers can’t even manage to come to a full stop at a stop sign or understand the concept of the right of way.in advance

Last edited by vavavroom; 01/03/19 08:11 PM.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4969200
01/03/19 08:20 PM
01/03/19 08:20 PM
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New England
madRiver Offline
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New England
Hopefully works when wet smile

The auto braking in wife’s 2018 Tiguan shuts off quietly with minor warning light in heavy rain and slushy weather when sensor gets obscured.... the two times this feature might be handy.

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: vavavroom] #4969208
01/03/19 08:26 PM
01/03/19 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,291
North Carolina
rooflessVW Online content
rooflessVW  Online Content
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Posts: 5,291
North Carolina
Originally Posted by vavavroom
It's just a more advanced version of traction control. Hydroplaning does not announce itself clearly in advance to the driver and can occur already at 35 mph. Does nobody here go over 35mph when the road is wet? A Porsche has rather wide tires, probably in a staggered setup, which makes the vehicle especially prone to hydroplaning. Given the technical possibility, why wouldn’t a manufacturer include an implementable safety feature? Most drivers, and just because someone drives a Porsche he can’t be expected to be a professional driver, will be better off with the additional safety feature. As for all the idiot drivers, most of them don’t drive a Porsche but some other hooptie. 90% of drivers can’t even manage to come to a full stop at a stop sign or understand the concept of the right of way.in advance

Well said.

My 911 is light, has no weight over the front 225s, and has 295s in the rear.

You bet it likes to hydroplane.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4969257
01/03/19 09:32 PM
01/03/19 09:32 PM
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Posts: 11,501
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d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Guys.

You all know this is a selectable mode, right?

Like... It's not a thing that's always on and impossible to defeat. It's a light that comes on sometimes, does literally nothing else unless you press the button, and then stops doing things the moment you press the button again.

I agree it shouldn't be necessary but you guys are whining like it's a horseman of the automotive apocalypse. Calm down.


lol..ya but I suspect default mode is "active" just like traction control.

No need for suspicion. The article specifically says it works upon activation by the driver. Zero ambiguity.

If the reality turns out otherwise, there'll be plenty of time to whine then.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4969270
01/03/19 09:56 PM
01/03/19 09:56 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Autogefühl has a video up of the new Porsche 911 with a demonstration on a track. Skip to the 32 minute mark to see how the Wet Mode works.


https://youtu.be/sdDzXR1aOsc


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4969532
01/04/19 08:53 AM
01/04/19 08:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,608
KY
MCompact Offline
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Posts: 4,608
KY
Just buy a 4 cylinder Camry with good tires and drive the speed limit.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4970660
01/05/19 03:34 PM
01/05/19 03:34 PM
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Posts: 16,350
OH
fdcg27 Online content
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The thing about hydroplaning is that you don't know that it's going to happen until it does although you do know the conditions in which it's likely, basically prolonged heavy rain.
You typically pass through a hydroplaning event very quickly and other than feeling that momentary loss of steering feel and control, I've never had anything bad happen myself. Most fast roads are well drained and you usually don't see that small stream of deeper water until it's too late to do anything other than keep a light grip on the wheel and pass right through and you may not see it at all but know it only by the hydroplaning event that you experience.
By the time these sensors hear a larger than threshold splash in the wheel wells, the hydroplaning event will have come and gone unless that threshold is fairly low in which case most drivers will dismiss it as Chicken Little.
As described, I don't see this implementation doing much to reduce hydroplaning anyway.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: fdcg27] #4970743
01/05/19 05:09 PM
01/05/19 05:09 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
The thing about hydroplaning is that you don't know that it's going to happen until it does although you do know the conditions in which it's likely, basically prolonged heavy rain.
You typically pass through a hydroplaning event very quickly and other than feeling that momentary loss of steering feel and control, I've never had anything bad happen myself. Most fast roads are well drained and you usually don't see that small stream of deeper water until it's too late to do anything other than keep a light grip on the wheel and pass right through and you may not see it at all but know it only by the hydroplaning event that you experience.
By the time these sensors hear a larger than threshold splash in the wheel wells, the hydroplaning event will have come and gone unless that threshold is fairly low in which case most drivers will dismiss it as Chicken Little.
As described, I don't see this implementation doing much to reduce hydroplaning anyway.




I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged? If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

Here in the rainy side of WA state the system would have to be on constantly during the rainy season. That in turn might affect performance.

I like technology but to be reliant on it is a new paradigm. A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense. One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: PimTac] #4971161
01/06/19 08:23 AM
01/06/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
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Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by fdcg27
The thing about hydroplaning is that you don't know that it's going to happen until it does although you do know the conditions in which it's likely, basically prolonged heavy rain.
You typically pass through a hydroplaning event very quickly and other than feeling that momentary loss of steering feel and control, I've never had anything bad happen myself. Most fast roads are well drained and you usually don't see that small stream of deeper water until it's too late to do anything other than keep a light grip on the wheel and pass right through and you may not see it at all but know it only by the hydroplaning event that you experience.
By the time these sensors hear a larger than threshold splash in the wheel wells, the hydroplaning event will have come and gone unless that threshold is fairly low in which case most drivers will dismiss it as Chicken Little.
As described, I don't see this implementation doing much to reduce hydroplaning anyway.




I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged? If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

Here in the rainy side of WA state the system would have to be on constantly during the rainy season. That in turn might affect performance.

I like technology but to be reliant on it is a new paradigm. A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense. One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.


True, new Porsche owner will drive faster under the assumption that the car will take care of them.

It's really sad that Porsche thought this tech was worth pursuing.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4971204
01/06/19 09:08 AM
01/06/19 09:08 AM
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Posts: 5,291
North Carolina
rooflessVW Online content
rooflessVW  Online Content
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Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971208
01/06/19 09:12 AM
01/06/19 09:12 AM
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MCompact Offline
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


Yep.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: PimTac] #4971317
01/06/19 11:18 AM
01/06/19 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged?

It's driver activated.

The driver has to activate it or it's not active.

It does nothing unless it's positively selected by the driver.


There. Hopefully people will see it now.


Originally Posted by PimTac
If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

And if the driver didn't have to activate it, people would be complaining exactly as they are now, except their complaints would be less divorced from reality.


Originally Posted by PimTac
A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense.

Then someone plugs into the onboard data recorder and notices the system hadn't been activated at the time of the crash, and the driver is told to pound sand.

Originally Posted by PimTac
One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.

I wish my right foot added downforce and changed ABS and DSC thresholds. Seems like I'm missing out.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4971329
01/06/19 11:44 AM
01/06/19 11:44 AM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by PimTac
I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged?

It's driver activated.

The driver has to activate it or it's not active.

It does nothing unless it's positively selected by the driver.


There. Hopefully people will see it now.


Originally Posted by PimTac
If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

And if the driver didn't have to activate it, people would be complaining exactly as they are now, except their complaints would be less divorced from reality.


Originally Posted by PimTac
A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense.

Then someone plugs into the onboard data recorder and notices the system hadn't been activated at the time of the crash, and the driver is told to pound sand.

Originally Posted by PimTac
One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.

I wish my right foot added downforce and changed ABS and DSC thresholds. Seems like I'm missing out.





Well pardon me all to he🏒🏒


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971471
01/06/19 02:48 PM
01/06/19 02:48 PM
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CO
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


True but you forget that most Vette owners don’t enjoy their cars enough to be in such a position, ie in the wet or at any meaningful speed.

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971573
01/06/19 04:56 PM
01/06/19 04:56 PM
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willbur Offline
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"My 911 is light, has no weight over the front 225s, and has 295s in the rear.

You bet it likes to hydroplane."

Maybe you need more appropriate tires? I got Michelin Pilot Sport P4s (summer tires) on mine and those two deep,wide grooves down the middle and side channels disperse water rather well. But I don't like to drive in the rain because it sits so low and the road spray from cars and trucks nearly blinds you. Downside to these tires is the 20k life. Soft tire compound sticks like chewing gum on a sidewalk

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971703
01/06/19 08:01 PM
01/06/19 08:01 PM
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fdcg27 Online content
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


Not this.
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.
As I originally wrote, we all know the conditions in which it's likely but we don't know that it'll happen until it does and it's usually over with in less time than you can say the shortest word in this thread.
How many accidents involving hydroplaning where tires with decent tread depth are in use?
I bet somewhere between few and none.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4971768
01/06/19 09:13 PM
01/06/19 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.

How so?


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971996
01/07/19 06:52 AM
01/07/19 06:52 AM
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Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


There already is the existing traction control system which actively interferes in situations like this.

Nobody is saying technology is bad, but questioning the usefulness of such as it adds yet another system to an already complex system. Let's think critically about this feature for a moment and how it operates in real world conditions.
In real world when driving in the rain the driver has both visual, audio, and tactile queues with regards to hydroplaning: Visual; seeing large puddles or movement of water across the pavement. Tactile; "feel" the vehicle enter deeper water either through the steering wheel and/or seat of the pants. Audio; hearing change the increase in volume as additional water splashes against the wheel wells.

So this Porsche system now requires the driver to process (visually) and validate (compare to what he/she is feeling/seeing/hearing) an additional input which with 100 percent certainty increases the reaction time by the driver. There's no reason to believe that drivers who aren't already paying attention to their conditions will magically pay attention to and process the meaning of an idiot light. This system is like ABS or Traction Control where these systems both notify the driver and interfere in the operation of the vehicle.



Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 01/07/19 07:00 AM.

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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4972012
01/07/19 07:13 AM
01/07/19 07:13 AM
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Texas
4WD Online confused
4WD  Online Confused
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I have had a more basic system … GM’s StabiliTrak save me from lack of awareness in the rain …

Now the lane departure thing?
I’m still getting used to having the steering wheel nudged by Alexa under the hood …

BTW… rented a 2019 Fusion Hybrid and found the front sonar system worked very well navigating slower traffic at 75 mph It reached out further than the Tahoe so I got retrained … Enjoyed the car …

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4972043
01/07/19 07:54 AM
01/07/19 07:54 AM
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It's sounds like:

The car will recognize standing water.

Ding!

Press "ok" to activate "wet mode."

Done.

Just like current German cars Ding! at 37°F. Just like activating a car's "snow mode." It takes no time, it takes no thought, and it can only help.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4972541
01/07/19 06:34 PM
01/07/19 06:34 PM
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fdcg27 Online content
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by fdcg27
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.

How so?


Might just as well ask you how it will.
Seems as though it won't do much if anything.
Not a while lot that can be done to prevent hydroplaning in water more than a quarter inch or so in depth.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4972607
01/07/19 07:46 PM
01/07/19 07:46 PM
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So, Porsche didn't think to use the windshield wipers to active "wet mode", so instead, in typical German fashion, made things overly complicated?


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: UG_Passat] #4972625
01/07/19 08:03 PM
01/07/19 08:03 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
So, Porsche didn't think to use the windshield wipers to active "wet mode", so instead, in typical German fashion, made things overly complicated?




This would have been a great way to activate the system automatically.

A driver can suddenly drive over a portion of road that does not drain well. So in that moment when you feel the car hydroplaning you reach for the button and activate the Wet Mode? It’s too late.

On the Mazda awd system, if the wipers are going and the temperature is 35F or lower the system assumes that the roads are icy or snow covered. Predictive systems are better in these situations.

Now I can understand somewhat why Porsche would not do this. It might take away from the performance.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: fdcg27] #4972632
01/07/19 08:06 PM
01/07/19 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by fdcg27
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.

How so?


Might just as well ask you how it will.
Seems as though it won't do much if anything.
Not a while lot that can be done to prevent hydroplaning in water more than a quarter inch or so in depth.

More downforce to increase ground pressure

Softer torque buildup and (for AWD) more front-biased power delivery to reduce the odds of sudden breakaway in the back

Lower activation threshold for stability and traction control for faster and more positive intervention


Seems pretty plausible to me.

No, it probably won't save a recklessly inattentive idiot doing 150 through deep standing water. And smoke detectors probably won't save you if you take too much Ambien while a toddler plays with a flamethrower downstairs. And chemo probably won't save you from stage IV pancreatic cancer. And a bulletproof vest probably won't save a cop from a bomb. So what?


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4973533
01/08/19 06:48 PM
01/08/19 06:48 PM
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OH
fdcg27 Online content
fdcg27  Online Content
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by fdcg27
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.

How so?


Might just as well ask you how it will.
Seems as though it won't do much if anything.
Not a while lot that can be done to prevent hydroplaning in water more than a quarter inch or so in depth.

More downforce to increase ground pressure

Softer torque buildup and (for AWD) more front-biased power delivery to reduce the odds of sudden breakaway in the back

Lower activation threshold for stability and traction control for faster and more positive intervention


Seems pretty plausible to me.

No, it probably won't save a recklessly inattentive idiot doing 150 through deep standing water. And smoke detectors probably won't save you if you take too much Ambien while a toddler plays with a flamethrower downstairs. And chemo probably won't save you from stage IV pancreatic cancer. And a bulletproof vest probably won't save a cop from a bomb. So what?


More like an immeasurably small increase in downforce within the dimensional limitations of the aero aids that could be deployed and less power which the driver will defeat with his right foot when he sees the car slowing.
More drive to the front will accomplish nothing, since anyone with much FWD experience has seen the engine rev up in hydroplaning encounters. I know that I have.
The rest of your post is irredeemably silly and undeserving of any response.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4973539
01/08/19 06:55 PM
01/08/19 06:55 PM
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Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
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Seems like Porsche engineers were looking for a practical use for their 'wet tires' microphone sensor rather than looking for (yet) another way to detect wet roads for the purpose of fiddling with ESC and aero settings. The method to determine wet tires is indeed clever, but also pretty useless. 2cents


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: fdcg27] #4973661
01/08/19 08:28 PM
01/08/19 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
More like an immeasurably small increase in downforce within the dimensional limitations of the aero aids that could be deployed and less power which the driver will defeat with his right foot when he sees the car slowing.
More drive to the front will accomplish nothing, since anyone with much FWD experience has seen the engine rev up in hydroplaning encounters.

Not less power. Less abrupt power onset.

Is there seriously not a bone in your body that says "this doesn't seem to me like it'd work, but Porsche obviously knows what they're doing, so maybe I should give them the benefit of the doubt"? Or do you think you're perceptive enough to read one third-party article and conclude that some of the best engineers in the world are producing something with no merit whatsoever?

The rest of my post was analogy. The fact that something doesn't save you from the worst possible scenario doesn't mean it's useless.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4973815
01/09/19 12:46 AM
01/09/19 12:46 AM
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Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
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Nope, not useless, just a bit excessive IMO.

Just as ABS can't stop you when there is no traction on ice, this setup won't save an idjit driver. Another great example of too many electronic nannies which may give aforementioned idjit a false sense of confidence.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4975375
01/10/19 05:33 PM
01/10/19 05:33 PM
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fdcg27 Online content
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Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by fdcg27
More like an immeasurably small increase in downforce within the dimensional limitations of the aero aids that could be deployed and less power which the driver will defeat with his right foot when he sees the car slowing.
More drive to the front will accomplish nothing, since anyone with much FWD experience has seen the engine rev up in hydroplaning encounters.

Not less power. Less abrupt power onset.

Is there seriously not a bone in your body that says "this doesn't seem to me like it'd work, but Porsche obviously knows what they're doing, so maybe I should give them the benefit of the doubt"? Or do you think you're perceptive enough to read one third-party article and conclude that some of the best engineers in the world are producing something with no merit whatsoever?

The rest of my post was analogy. The fact that something doesn't save you from the worst possible scenario doesn't mean it's useless.



I suspect that the Porsche folks have come up with the best solution they could for a difficult problem.
The quality of their engineers is debatable, since cost no object engineering isn't all that hard.
Whether this setup will actually do anything would require that you drive a car so equipped in the prolonged heavy rain conditions that typically bring hydroplaning events.
Would this system do something?
Maybe.
Would it eliminate hydroplaning at moderate highway speeds?
I doubt it.
Been their, experienced it even on good tires and while I found hydroplaning to be a quickly over with non-event, I know I didn't like it.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4975383
01/10/19 05:39 PM
01/10/19 05:39 PM
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PimTac Offline
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A good example would be driving on grooved pavement in heavy rain. I would wonder if the system would detect the different sound pattern of grooved pavement vs regular pavement?

In the places around here that utilize grooved pavement I drive with caution. They say it’s for better drainage but I think there is reduced contact between tire and pavement. Add heavy rain and it’s a mess.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: fdcg27] #4975419
01/10/19 06:20 PM
01/10/19 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
The quality of their engineers is debatable, since cost no object engineering isn't all that hard.

Would Porsche as profitable as it is if cost were no object? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Would this system do something?
Maybe.
Would it eliminate hydroplaning at moderate highway speeds?
I doubt it.

They don't claim it eliminates anything. They just claim it helps, which I think you'd agree is pretty plausible.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: PimTac] #4975441
01/10/19 06:38 PM
01/10/19 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PimTac
A good example would be driving on grooved pavement in heavy rain. I would wonder if the system would detect the different sound pattern of grooved pavement vs regular pavement?

In the places around here that utilize grooved pavement I drive with caution. They say it’s for better drainage but I think there is reduced contact between tire and pavement. Add heavy rain and it’s a mess.

Grooved pavement does reduce contact area but it also drastically increases ground pressure. Net result is less grip in most conditions, but far less risk of hydroplaning in very heavy rain.

Overall, I don't like it, either -- though I see the argument for it in some cases.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4976294
01/11/19 04:04 PM
01/11/19 04:04 PM
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California
DGXR Offline
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It seems there is no end to the nannies.
Lane departure... the car steers for you.
Automatic Braking... ugh.
Drowsy stopper... vibrates seat and steering wheel... wake up dummy! Wow.
Even the low fuel warning light... umm... it has a fuel gauge, right?
The auto industry is actively working on more ways to protect us from ourselves. And most of all, let us remember that we did this to ourselves.
At what point will we realize we all have ADD and we simply aren't able to watch the road anymore, and we all should be in autonomous vehicles?
Like the article that says we should put something important in the back seat to remind us that our kids are back there. Yes, we are doing this to ourselves.

Originally Posted by Pelican
Mine has a system that can be transferred from car to car it's called "My Right Foot" it works wonderfully especially when connected to the optional "Common Sense" application, that makes it foolproof !


*sigh* I miss the good old days... smart, courteous driving and common sense are GONE.


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 2wd access cab
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
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