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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4970660
01/05/19 04:34 PM
01/05/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,480
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,480
OH
The thing about hydroplaning is that you don't know that it's going to happen until it does although you do know the conditions in which it's likely, basically prolonged heavy rain.
You typically pass through a hydroplaning event very quickly and other than feeling that momentary loss of steering feel and control, I've never had anything bad happen myself. Most fast roads are well drained and you usually don't see that small stream of deeper water until it's too late to do anything other than keep a light grip on the wheel and pass right through and you may not see it at all but know it only by the hydroplaning event that you experience.
By the time these sensors hear a larger than threshold splash in the wheel wells, the hydroplaning event will have come and gone unless that threshold is fairly low in which case most drivers will dismiss it as Chicken Little.
As described, I don't see this implementation doing much to reduce hydroplaning anyway.


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Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: fdcg27] #4970743
01/05/19 06:09 PM
01/05/19 06:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,274
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,274
...
Originally Posted by fdcg27
The thing about hydroplaning is that you don't know that it's going to happen until it does although you do know the conditions in which it's likely, basically prolonged heavy rain.
You typically pass through a hydroplaning event very quickly and other than feeling that momentary loss of steering feel and control, I've never had anything bad happen myself. Most fast roads are well drained and you usually don't see that small stream of deeper water until it's too late to do anything other than keep a light grip on the wheel and pass right through and you may not see it at all but know it only by the hydroplaning event that you experience.
By the time these sensors hear a larger than threshold splash in the wheel wells, the hydroplaning event will have come and gone unless that threshold is fairly low in which case most drivers will dismiss it as Chicken Little.
As described, I don't see this implementation doing much to reduce hydroplaning anyway.




I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged? If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

Here in the rainy side of WA state the system would have to be on constantly during the rainy season. That in turn might affect performance.

I like technology but to be reliant on it is a new paradigm. A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense. One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: PimTac] #4971161
01/06/19 09:23 AM
01/06/19 09:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,899
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,899
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by fdcg27
The thing about hydroplaning is that you don't know that it's going to happen until it does although you do know the conditions in which it's likely, basically prolonged heavy rain.
You typically pass through a hydroplaning event very quickly and other than feeling that momentary loss of steering feel and control, I've never had anything bad happen myself. Most fast roads are well drained and you usually don't see that small stream of deeper water until it's too late to do anything other than keep a light grip on the wheel and pass right through and you may not see it at all but know it only by the hydroplaning event that you experience.
By the time these sensors hear a larger than threshold splash in the wheel wells, the hydroplaning event will have come and gone unless that threshold is fairly low in which case most drivers will dismiss it as Chicken Little.
As described, I don't see this implementation doing much to reduce hydroplaning anyway.




I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged? If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

Here in the rainy side of WA state the system would have to be on constantly during the rainy season. That in turn might affect performance.

I like technology but to be reliant on it is a new paradigm. A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense. One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.


True, new Porsche owner will drive faster under the assumption that the car will take care of them.

It's really sad that Porsche thought this tech was worth pursuing.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4971204
01/06/19 10:08 AM
01/06/19 10:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,670
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,670
North Carolina
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971208
01/06/19 10:12 AM
01/06/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,735
KY
MCompact Offline
MCompact  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,735
KY
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


Yep.


Mine:
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1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
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Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: PimTac] #4971317
01/06/19 12:18 PM
01/06/19 12:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
Originally Posted by PimTac
I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged?

It's driver activated.

The driver has to activate it or it's not active.

It does nothing unless it's positively selected by the driver.


There. Hopefully people will see it now.


Originally Posted by PimTac
If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

And if the driver didn't have to activate it, people would be complaining exactly as they are now, except their complaints would be less divorced from reality.


Originally Posted by PimTac
A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense.

Then someone plugs into the onboard data recorder and notices the system hadn't been activated at the time of the crash, and the driver is told to pound sand.

Originally Posted by PimTac
One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.

I wish my right foot added downforce and changed ABS and DSC thresholds. Seems like I'm missing out.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4971329
01/06/19 12:44 PM
01/06/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,274
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,274
...
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by PimTac
I watched the video demonstration and first it was hard to understand the person describing how it worked. Was it automatic or driver engaged?

It's driver activated.

The driver has to activate it or it's not active.

It does nothing unless it's positively selected by the driver.


There. Hopefully people will see it now.


Originally Posted by PimTac
If the driver has to activate it then the biggest problem I see is that the driver is doing something at a crucial point when he or she should be driving and sensing conditions.

And if the driver didn't have to activate it, people would be complaining exactly as they are now, except their complaints would be less divorced from reality.


Originally Posted by PimTac
A Porsche spins out in the rain and the driver will blame the technology and not their lack of common sense.

Then someone plugs into the onboard data recorder and notices the system hadn't been activated at the time of the crash, and the driver is told to pound sand.

Originally Posted by PimTac
One might say we already have this system on all cars and that is our right foot.

I wish my right foot added downforce and changed ABS and DSC thresholds. Seems like I'm missing out.





Well pardon me all to he🏒🏒


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971471
01/06/19 03:48 PM
01/06/19 03:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 988
CO
Nederlander75 Offline
Nederlander75  Offline

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 988
CO


Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


True but you forget that most Vette owners don’t enjoy their cars enough to be in such a position, ie in the wet or at any meaningful speed.

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971573
01/06/19 05:56 PM
01/06/19 05:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 367
sw ohio
willbur Offline
willbur  Offline

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 367
sw ohio

"My 911 is light, has no weight over the front 225s, and has 295s in the rear.

You bet it likes to hydroplane."

Maybe you need more appropriate tires? I got Michelin Pilot Sport P4s (summer tires) on mine and those two deep,wide grooves down the middle and side channels disperse water rather well. But I don't like to drive in the rain because it sits so low and the road spray from cars and trucks nearly blinds you. Downside to these tires is the 20k life. Soft tire compound sticks like chewing gum on a sidewalk

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971703
01/06/19 09:01 PM
01/06/19 09:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,480
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,480
OH
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


Not this.
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.
As I originally wrote, we all know the conditions in which it's likely but we don't know that it'll happen until it does and it's usually over with in less time than you can say the shortest word in this thread.
How many accidents involving hydroplaning where tires with decent tread depth are in use?
I bet somewhere between few and none.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
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01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4971768
01/06/19 10:13 PM
01/06/19 10:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
Originally Posted by fdcg27
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.

How so?


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: rooflessVW] #4971996
01/07/19 07:52 AM
01/07/19 07:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,899
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,899
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Typical BiTOG thread.

Technology bad.

German car buyer dumb.

Ugga ugga.

Hydroplaning can catch anyone out. How is tech that makes everyone safer a bad thing? If Chevrolet was developing this tech for the new 'Vette, you'd all be signing their praises.


There already is the existing traction control system which actively interferes in situations like this.

Nobody is saying technology is bad, but questioning the usefulness of such as it adds yet another system to an already complex system. Let's think critically about this feature for a moment and how it operates in real world conditions.
In real world when driving in the rain the driver has both visual, audio, and tactile queues with regards to hydroplaning: Visual; seeing large puddles or movement of water across the pavement. Tactile; "feel" the vehicle enter deeper water either through the steering wheel and/or seat of the pants. Audio; hearing change the increase in volume as additional water splashes against the wheel wells.

So this Porsche system now requires the driver to process (visually) and validate (compare to what he/she is feeling/seeing/hearing) an additional input which with 100 percent certainty increases the reaction time by the driver. There's no reason to believe that drivers who aren't already paying attention to their conditions will magically pay attention to and process the meaning of an idiot light. This system is like ABS or Traction Control where these systems both notify the driver and interfere in the operation of the vehicle.



Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 01/07/19 08:00 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4972012
01/07/19 08:13 AM
01/07/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,216
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,216
Texas
I have had a more basic system … GM’s StabiliTrak save me from lack of awareness in the rain …

Now the lane departure thing?
I’m still getting used to having the steering wheel nudged by Alexa under the hood …

BTW… rented a 2019 Fusion Hybrid and found the front sonar system worked very well navigating slower traffic at 75 mph It reached out further than the Tahoe so I got retrained … Enjoyed the car …

Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: SubLGT] #4972043
01/07/19 08:54 AM
01/07/19 08:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,670
North Carolina
rooflessVW Offline
rooflessVW  Offline

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,670
North Carolina
It's sounds like:

The car will recognize standing water.

Ding!

Press "ok" to activate "wet mode."

Done.

Just like current German cars Ding! at 37°F. Just like activating a car's "snow mode." It takes no time, it takes no thought, and it can only help.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Porsche "Wet Mode" to Reduce Hydroplaning [Re: d00df00d] #4972541
01/07/19 07:34 PM
01/07/19 07:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,480
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,480
OH
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by fdcg27
It's just that we've all experienced hydroplaning and this Porsche system seems unlikely to do much to ameliorate it.

How so?


Might just as well ask you how it will.
Seems as though it won't do much if anything.
Not a while lot that can be done to prevent hydroplaning in water more than a quarter inch or so in depth.


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12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
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95 318i
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