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2008 Honda 2.4L Engine Cold-Start Rattling
- Thread starter SubieBlue
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I have no firsthand experience, but, was curious and looked up the Honda K24A (K24Z, K24W) engine on "mywikimotors.com" ...
> Engine noise during startup. This happens due to the use of improper engine oil or untimely replacement of engine oil,
> which deteriorates the VTC gear. The noise comes from the right side of the engine? Then you have to replace the VTC gear.
> Sometimes, the timing chain starts rattling, the reason is the same, it is non-serious attitude to the choice of or frequency of
> replacement of motor oil.
I started using a HDEO (higher zddp)(Rotella T5 10w30) in a 2001 Honda Accord with the J30A1 engine, and it got me wondering
if the problem was wear related over time due to the reduced levels of ZDDP in current engine oils.
> Engine noise during startup. This happens due to the use of improper engine oil or untimely replacement of engine oil,
> which deteriorates the VTC gear. The noise comes from the right side of the engine? Then you have to replace the VTC gear.
> Sometimes, the timing chain starts rattling, the reason is the same, it is non-serious attitude to the choice of or frequency of
> replacement of motor oil.
I started using a HDEO (higher zddp)(Rotella T5 10w30) in a 2001 Honda Accord with the J30A1 engine, and it got me wondering
if the problem was wear related over time due to the reduced levels of ZDDP in current engine oils.
Thanks for the intel tomkelso2003!
I can give complete history of the oil I used. Started with OEM factory fill up to 1,000 miles. Replaced with Valvoline conventional oil 5w-20 until 2,500 miles. Then Valvoline DuraBlend Semi-Syn oil until 5,000 miles. Switched to Mobil 1 FS to 10k. Used Mobil 1 per Oil life monitor (usually got to about 9k-10k OCI) until about 100,000 miles. I think I used Mobil 1 ExtPerf for one of those OCI's. Decided to switch to Amsoil SS 5w-20 from 100,000 until 190,000 miles. Last 8,000 miles has been Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5w-30 in an effort to slow down oil burn. May go to Valvoline FS 5w-40 Euro Formula on upcoming OCI at 200,000 to see if that reduces oil burn. No leaks or evidence of gasket failures anywhere. Just the oil burn.
Also got into a habit of changing oil filter every 5k and topped off with 1 qt for the remaining 5k of the OCI. Thought it was cheap insurance for my 10k OCI. I believe I had 2 Blackstone Labs UOA's done way back in the day but I can't find them. Would have loved to posted them along with this thread! My memory recalls that they came back looking really good.
I can give complete history of the oil I used. Started with OEM factory fill up to 1,000 miles. Replaced with Valvoline conventional oil 5w-20 until 2,500 miles. Then Valvoline DuraBlend Semi-Syn oil until 5,000 miles. Switched to Mobil 1 FS to 10k. Used Mobil 1 per Oil life monitor (usually got to about 9k-10k OCI) until about 100,000 miles. I think I used Mobil 1 ExtPerf for one of those OCI's. Decided to switch to Amsoil SS 5w-20 from 100,000 until 190,000 miles. Last 8,000 miles has been Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5w-30 in an effort to slow down oil burn. May go to Valvoline FS 5w-40 Euro Formula on upcoming OCI at 200,000 to see if that reduces oil burn. No leaks or evidence of gasket failures anywhere. Just the oil burn.
Also got into a habit of changing oil filter every 5k and topped off with 1 qt for the remaining 5k of the OCI. Thought it was cheap insurance for my 10k OCI. I believe I had 2 Blackstone Labs UOA's done way back in the day but I can't find them. Would have loved to posted them along with this thread! My memory recalls that they came back looking really good.
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SubieBlue, have you read the discussions of this issue on www.driveaccord.net? If not, I recommend you do so. It has also been discussed extensively on various other Honda boards, including vtec.net, Honda-tech.com, ephatch.com, etc.
Given the age and mileage of your Honda and the sounds you've described, IMHO it's much more likely that what you are hearing is piston slap, not (another common k-series malady) a failing VTC actuator.
I'm going to leave it to you to research this issue -- search "Honda engine piston slap" or any variation of that issue -- but I'll be surprised if you don't eventually agree after you've read the discussions and listened to the many YouTube videos that others have posted when trying to figure out what causes the sound(s) you've described, when and why they most conspicuous, and why most Honda owners, after considering their options, choose to ignore the problem. In short, it's chronic, endemic to k-series motors, you can live with it for years, and eliminating it typically involves (at a minimum) honing the cylinders and piston replacement.
Given the age and mileage of your Honda and the sounds you've described, IMHO it's much more likely that what you are hearing is piston slap, not (another common k-series malady) a failing VTC actuator.
I'm going to leave it to you to research this issue -- search "Honda engine piston slap" or any variation of that issue -- but I'll be surprised if you don't eventually agree after you've read the discussions and listened to the many YouTube videos that others have posted when trying to figure out what causes the sound(s) you've described, when and why they most conspicuous, and why most Honda owners, after considering their options, choose to ignore the problem. In short, it's chronic, endemic to k-series motors, you can live with it for years, and eliminating it typically involves (at a minimum) honing the cylinders and piston replacement.
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Does yours sound like this?
Reason I ask,is that I played around with different viscosities in my Accord,and I tried a 10W30 (QSUD). We had a cold snap and mine sounded just like this. I went back to a 20wt and no more cold start noise at all. Have you only started having it with a 30wt in your car?
Scotty Kilmer even discusses it on one of his videos. Fast forward to 4:20 and he takes about VVT systems needing a specific oil to function properly:
Reason I ask,is that I played around with different viscosities in my Accord,and I tried a 10W30 (QSUD). We had a cold snap and mine sounded just like this. I went back to a 20wt and no more cold start noise at all. Have you only started having it with a 30wt in your car?
Scotty Kilmer even discusses it on one of his videos. Fast forward to 4:20 and he takes about VVT systems needing a specific oil to function properly:
thanks aquariouscsm & hounds!! I think i've seen the Scotty Kilmer video before. The engine made that sound prior to my last oil change to 5w30. It was doing it with 5w20. If my memory serves, it's been making this sound for the last 20-30k miles. I will check out the www.driveaccord.net site to check it out. I haven't been on that blog before. Prior to going to 5w30 (to minimize oil burn usage), I was thinking of going to 0w20 instead of 5w20 to see if it would help the cold start noise. Chose to go the other way for better protection and help on the oil burn issue. Maybe I could go back to 0w20 and give it a try... and just deal with the fact I will have to add oil periodically in between my OCI's. I may just be stuck with helping one issue and let the other issue go... until I get to a point where I do an engine overhaul / replacement. May have to let my level of irritation get to a certain point, then pull that lever when the time comes. Would hate to get rid of the entire car because it has been very reliable, otherwise. And it is in great physical shape too!
thanks aquariouscsm & hounds!! I think i've seen the Scotty Kilmer video before. The engine made that sound prior to my last oil change to 5w30. It was doing it with 5w20. If my memory serves, it's been making this sound for the last 20-30k miles. I will check out the www.driveaccord.net site to check it out. I haven't been on that blog before. Prior to going to 5w30 (to minimize oil burn usage), I was thinking of going to 0w20 instead of 5w20 to see if it would help the cold start noise. Chose to go the other way for better protection and help on the oil burn issue. Maybe I could go back to 0w20 and give it a try... and just deal with the fact I will have to add oil periodically in between my OCI's. I may just be stuck with helping one issue and let the other issue go... until I get to a point where I do an engine overhaul / replacement. May have to let my level of irritation get to a certain point, then pull that lever when the time comes. Would hate to get rid of the entire car because it has been very reliable, otherwise. And it is in great physical shape too!
aquariuscsm, the first YouTube video clip you linked is -- without question, IMHO -- the distinct rattle of a VTC actuator that has failed. That sound, like piston-slap, is very frustrating to listen to (and is more pronounced in cold weather, typically), but neither will result in a damaging mechanical failure. In other words, the sound you can hear in the clip is the result of the VTC actuator failing or having failed. (The actuator is slow to retract.) Again, frustrating, but relatively benign.
Piston-slap, in contrast to sound of a VTC actuator, typically continues for several minutes, diminishing in volume as the pistons gain heat and finally reach operating temperature. The two sounds, in other words, are very different and distinct. Fortunately, piston-slap is also somewhat benign. Over the course of time -- often years and thousands of miles -- piston-slap will scuff the cylinders on either side of the piston (opposite the direction of the wrist pins) and result in greater oil consumption. Still, because this issue usually is only present in k-series motors with 80k-100k miles, correcting the problem (i.e., honing the cylinders & replacing worn pistons) is vastly more expensive than periodically adding motor oil.
Footnote of sorts: Increasing the oil weight from a 0W-20 or 5W-20 weight oil to a 5W-30 isn't going to negatively affect the actuation of the VTC actuator. The difference in viscosity (15% or so) just isn't that significant with regard the operation of the actuator. Now, if you want to get into a discussion of what might have prevented or delayed the onset of piston-slap in a k-series motor, that's something worth debating.
Piston-slap, in contrast to sound of a VTC actuator, typically continues for several minutes, diminishing in volume as the pistons gain heat and finally reach operating temperature. The two sounds, in other words, are very different and distinct. Fortunately, piston-slap is also somewhat benign. Over the course of time -- often years and thousands of miles -- piston-slap will scuff the cylinders on either side of the piston (opposite the direction of the wrist pins) and result in greater oil consumption. Still, because this issue usually is only present in k-series motors with 80k-100k miles, correcting the problem (i.e., honing the cylinders & replacing worn pistons) is vastly more expensive than periodically adding motor oil.
Footnote of sorts: Increasing the oil weight from a 0W-20 or 5W-20 weight oil to a 5W-30 isn't going to negatively affect the actuation of the VTC actuator. The difference in viscosity (15% or so) just isn't that significant with regard the operation of the actuator. Now, if you want to get into a discussion of what might have prevented or delayed the onset of piston-slap in a k-series motor, that's something worth debating.
My wife and I have a 2013 Honda CR-V AWD with the K24 engine that has recently developed the VTC rattle. We have 78K miles on it, and until recently, it would only make this noise sporadically on startup at 40 degrees F or below. Now, it is more common. Thankfully, we have Honda Care warranty, and I have been getting it serviced at the Honda dealer since we got it, as long as it is under warranty. After that runs out, I'll be the wrench-turner on it.
Has anyone had any success(?) decreasing this VTC rattle by use of particular brands of 0W-20 oil, like Castrol Magnatec? I understand if that is irrelevant, due to excessive mechanical component wear, but at the same time, I'm curious if even certain oils might be used in a preventive manner.
Has anyone had any success(?) decreasing this VTC rattle by use of particular brands of 0W-20 oil, like Castrol Magnatec? I understand if that is irrelevant, due to excessive mechanical component wear, but at the same time, I'm curious if even certain oils might be used in a preventive manner.
Hi folks, my sister has a 2008 Accord with the K24 with around 78K on it. She took it in for the open recalls and missed the cutoff for the problematic piston slap as talked about previously. She was quoted a little over 3k by the dealer, I told her oil is cheap just keep a close eye on it. By the way I do believe there is a class action lawsuit filed against Honda for this particular engine.
Originally Posted by Auae85
Has anyone had any success(?) decreasing this VTC rattle by use of particular brands of 0W-20 oil, like Castrol Magnatec? I understand if that is irrelevant, due to excessive mechanical component wear, but at the same time, I'm curious if even certain oils might be used in a preventive manner.
I used magnatec in a 2014 CRV back then, it did not stop vtc rattle from occurring. That said Honda did the warranty work on it without even requiring oil change receipts. Of course, the engine was clean, maybe if it was dirty they would have asked.
Has anyone had any success(?) decreasing this VTC rattle by use of particular brands of 0W-20 oil, like Castrol Magnatec? I understand if that is irrelevant, due to excessive mechanical component wear, but at the same time, I'm curious if even certain oils might be used in a preventive manner.
I used magnatec in a 2014 CRV back then, it did not stop vtc rattle from occurring. That said Honda did the warranty work on it without even requiring oil change receipts. Of course, the engine was clean, maybe if it was dirty they would have asked.
It would be interesting to see if something like Hy-Per Lube ZRA or Lubegard BioTech additives would quiet things down. I know the ZRA quieted the otherwise noisy HPFP in my Santa Fe. And the valve train in that and my son's 15 Escape 2.5 are noticeably quieter after adding the ZRA.
Originally Posted by Auae85
Has anyone had any success(?) decreasing this VTC rattle by use of particular brands of 0W-20 oil, like Castrol Magnatec? I understand if that is irrelevant, due to excessive mechanical component wear, but at the same time, I'm curious if even certain oils might be used in a preventive manner.
I switched to Mobil 1 0w-30 in our out-of-warranty 2012 and I feel it softens the noise, for a lack of a better description. YMMV.
Has anyone had any success(?) decreasing this VTC rattle by use of particular brands of 0W-20 oil, like Castrol Magnatec? I understand if that is irrelevant, due to excessive mechanical component wear, but at the same time, I'm curious if even certain oils might be used in a preventive manner.
I switched to Mobil 1 0w-30 in our out-of-warranty 2012 and I feel it softens the noise, for a lack of a better description. YMMV.
Did you ever get the VTC actuator replaced? Common on those engines.
https://ericthecarguy.com/kunena/8-...20-honda-2-4-l-vtc-actuator-noise#161260
https://ericthecarguy.com/kunena/8-...20-honda-2-4-l-vtc-actuator-noise#161260
try run a acea a3 oil and see if it helps
Well, we just got our 2013 CR-V out of the shop this morning. I had them replace the rattling VTC Actuator, and after sitting up all night at the dealer, and morning temps around 32 degrees, we started it, and it didn't rattle like before. Glad it is fixed, at least for now. Also glad I bought HondaCare when we got the SUV.
I did some research before taking it in, and made sure they installed the new revised VTC Actuator mentioned in the Honda service Bulletin 16-012. I asked about oil type contributing to the original problem, but their response was that low oil seemed to cause the problem. I said "Hmm, I check mine frequently, and while it is under warrenty, you guys do all the service on it. What kind of oil are you giving me at oil changes?" Then a little tapdancing started. They said that they use semi-synthetic, although I thought my past receipts have said synthetic - I'll have to check. I think with that response and this VTC Actuator experience, the OLM may not be followed as much and I'll have it changed more frequently, maybe using oil that I provide instead. We plan to have this vehicle for a while, if possible.
I did some research before taking it in, and made sure they installed the new revised VTC Actuator mentioned in the Honda service Bulletin 16-012. I asked about oil type contributing to the original problem, but their response was that low oil seemed to cause the problem. I said "Hmm, I check mine frequently, and while it is under warrenty, you guys do all the service on it. What kind of oil are you giving me at oil changes?" Then a little tapdancing started. They said that they use semi-synthetic, although I thought my past receipts have said synthetic - I'll have to check. I think with that response and this VTC Actuator experience, the OLM may not be followed as much and I'll have it changed more frequently, maybe using oil that I provide instead. We plan to have this vehicle for a while, if possible.
Originally Posted by SubieBlue
Hello Bitogers,
Has anyone ever posted their Honda engine rattling issues on the site in the past? If so, could someone send me the link? Or, feel free to comment and provide any recommendations. My 2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/ 2.4L I4 engine (198,000 miles) rattles on cold start up. Honda dealer suggested replacing the Variable Timing Solenoid Valve. Did that. Worked for like first few starts... but noise came right back. I've read web blogs on this issue.. but no real solid answers / fixes to the problem...just a lot of complaining.
It burns about 3/4 qt of oil every 1,000 miles too... which is another Honda Gen 8 engine issue. Thinking about overhaul and/or engine replacement in the near future. Body and Interior are immaculate condition.. so the car can easily last for another 200,000 miles but engine is now quickly going down hill in last 20k - 30k miles.
Would love to hear educated/professional advice on possible solutions or recommendations.
thanks all...
I run Castrol 0/40 in mine, 2012, 4cly. 158k, consumes 1/2 every 5-6k miles. Run 8k oci on Castrol 0/40. Yet again, I've never run a 0/20 oil in mine.
Hello Bitogers,
Has anyone ever posted their Honda engine rattling issues on the site in the past? If so, could someone send me the link? Or, feel free to comment and provide any recommendations. My 2008 Honda Accord EX-L w/ 2.4L I4 engine (198,000 miles) rattles on cold start up. Honda dealer suggested replacing the Variable Timing Solenoid Valve. Did that. Worked for like first few starts... but noise came right back. I've read web blogs on this issue.. but no real solid answers / fixes to the problem...just a lot of complaining.
It burns about 3/4 qt of oil every 1,000 miles too... which is another Honda Gen 8 engine issue. Thinking about overhaul and/or engine replacement in the near future. Body and Interior are immaculate condition.. so the car can easily last for another 200,000 miles but engine is now quickly going down hill in last 20k - 30k miles.
Would love to hear educated/professional advice on possible solutions or recommendations.
thanks all...
I run Castrol 0/40 in mine, 2012, 4cly. 158k, consumes 1/2 every 5-6k miles. Run 8k oci on Castrol 0/40. Yet again, I've never run a 0/20 oil in mine.
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I run Castrol 0/40 in mine, 2012, 4cly. 158k, consumes 1/2 every 5-6k miles. Run 8k oci on Castrol 0/40. Yet again, I've never run a 0/20 oil in mine.
I forget, is yours a Pilot or an Accord?
I run Castrol 0/40 in mine, 2012, 4cly. 158k, consumes 1/2 every 5-6k miles. Run 8k oci on Castrol 0/40. Yet again, I've never run a 0/20 oil in mine.
I forget, is yours a Pilot or an Accord?
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