Hey all! My house was built in the winter of 2015 and had many drywall screw pops after the first year. The builder sent a guy over who just tightened the screws and skim coated them, most came back. I've gotten quite proficient in fixing them myself by now lol. My problem is in the master bath. I had several in the ceiling and fixed them as I always do. I remove the offending screw, put a new screw about an inch in ether side off the hole, fill with joint compound and sand. When I take a long hot shower the screw repairs show through the paint, I've seen it referred to as ghosting. These repairs were primed with Kilz Premium and followed with two coats of flat laytex ceiling paint. I've had the insulation above the area checked and batt insulation added over the blown insulation. I've replaced the pos exhaust fan with a Broan 150cfm (50cfm over sized) model and vented it out the roof. The problem persists. The last thing I did was to prime the area with one coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 primer and follow with two top coats of ceiling paint. 24 hours drying time was allowed between each coat of paint. It's a bit better after the last primer/paint combo but still there. Again, you can only notice the screw repairs after a long hot shower. When the room isn't used for a shower everything looks fine. In the hall bath I don't have the problem and can empty a 50 gallon water heater if I choose. I'm out of ideas, any help is greatly appreciated!
Bathroom nail pop repair mystery
- Thread starter PW01
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Check out your paint store or a Home Depot/Lowe's/home center store for a ceiling paint made specifically for Bath's & Kitchens where there is high moisture present. We used it in our bath and there is no more screw "shadowing". It's a "glossier" finish which also helps with the moisture vs a matte or flat finish paint.
Whimsey
Whimsey
Your primer/sealers are both water based. I would try an oil base or alcohol (BIN) primer. But, I wonder if you only spot prime the repair areas, will you get a "reverse ghost" effect?
I think Whimsey's idea of using a paint one or two levels up on gloss might help. Some paint brands have 4 or 5 levels of gloss.
I think Whimsey's idea of using a paint one or two levels up on gloss might help. Some paint brands have 4 or 5 levels of gloss.
Use satin paint.
Thanks for the responses! The ceiling paint is the same brand/sheen as the hall bath. None of the previous repairs show, just the last ones. Could it be that they got wet and the moisture sealed in? I've never had this type of problem before and it didn't happen in the other bathroom
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
Use satin paint.
+1
I'd also PM demarpaint for suggestions. He is the resident paint/finish expert here.
Use satin paint.
+1
I'd also PM demarpaint for suggestions. He is the resident paint/finish expert here.
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Originally Posted by Whimsey
Check out your paint store or a Home Depot/Lowe's/home center store for a ceiling paint made specifically for Bath's & Kitchens where there is high moisture present. We used it in our bath and there is no more screw "shadowing". It's a "glossier" finish which also helps with the moisture vs a matte or flat finish paint.
Whimsey
Did you have the same problem I'm having?
Check out your paint store or a Home Depot/Lowe's/home center store for a ceiling paint made specifically for Bath's & Kitchens where there is high moisture present. We used it in our bath and there is no more screw "shadowing". It's a "glossier" finish which also helps with the moisture vs a matte or flat finish paint.
Whimsey
Did you have the same problem I'm having?
Is it the paint touch up you see are seeing or just the area where the drywall repair work was done? I don't like any sheen on a ceiling at all so I'd avoid even a satin finish if possible.
I'm seeing where I covered the screw heads with joint compound. It's like the joint compound is absorbing the humidity from the air. It's hard for me to believe though, those spots have had a coat of Kilz Premium primer, 2 coats of ceiling paint, a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 + primer and 2 coats of ceiling paint. I wouldn't think anything would make it through that
Originally Posted by spasm3
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
Use satin paint.
+1
I'd also PM demarpaint for suggestions. He is the resident paint/finish expert here.
I recently had a guy over to give me some estimates on a bunch of drywall repairs, and he has like 30 years experience. I have done a significant amount of drywall work myself, but it can be an artform to do it efficiently. One of the areas is a bathroom, and he insisted that "satin paint" is the correct paint to use in the bathroom. I do not recall the reasons why though
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
Use satin paint.
+1
I'd also PM demarpaint for suggestions. He is the resident paint/finish expert here.
I recently had a guy over to give me some estimates on a bunch of drywall repairs, and he has like 30 years experience. I have done a significant amount of drywall work myself, but it can be an artform to do it efficiently. One of the areas is a bathroom, and he insisted that "satin paint" is the correct paint to use in the bathroom. I do not recall the reasons why though
Try using a ceramic based paint.
It could be something like condensation caused by a temperature difference due to the screws conducting heat. If it was my ceiling I think I'd let it go and find a more important issue to deal with.
Originally Posted by PW01
I'm seeing where I covered the screw heads with joint compound. It's like the joint compound is absorbing the humidity from the air. It's hard for me to believe though, those spots have had a coat of Kilz Premium primer, 2 coats of ceiling paint, a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 + primer and 2 coats of ceiling paint. I wouldn't think anything would make it through that
The ceiling paint isn't designed for high humidity. As mentioned a kitchen and bath semigloss is the way to go.
I'm seeing where I covered the screw heads with joint compound. It's like the joint compound is absorbing the humidity from the air. It's hard for me to believe though, those spots have had a coat of Kilz Premium primer, 2 coats of ceiling paint, a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 + primer and 2 coats of ceiling paint. I wouldn't think anything would make it through that
The ceiling paint isn't designed for high humidity. As mentioned a kitchen and bath semigloss is the way to go.
Nail or screw pops generally occur when the framing of the house flexes either from settling of the foundation or in the case of many attic spaces a lack of or disruption of attic ventilation causing flexing of the ceiling joists due to temp and humidity extremes.
The term ghosting typically refers to a darkening of the paint over nail or screw heads due to the temperature difference between the conditioned air inside the house, and the temperature of the paint inside and the conduction of cold from the outside traveling through the screw/nail at a faster rate than the framing studs themselves.
Are the screw pops raising back up or does the repaired area itself just have a different sheen than the original area?
The term ghosting typically refers to a darkening of the paint over nail or screw heads due to the temperature difference between the conditioned air inside the house, and the temperature of the paint inside and the conduction of cold from the outside traveling through the screw/nail at a faster rate than the framing studs themselves.
Are the screw pops raising back up or does the repaired area itself just have a different sheen than the original area?
Are you using low perm (low permability) paint? I wonder if moisture is getting into the wall.
You put more insulation on top of insulation? How well is it allowed to breath? I wonder if moisture is getting in but can't get out. Houses have to breath; moisture control is a big thing.
You put more insulation on top of insulation? How well is it allowed to breath? I wonder if moisture is getting in but can't get out. Houses have to breath; moisture control is a big thing.
Originally Posted by Danno
Originally Posted by PW01
I'm seeing where I covered the screw heads with joint compound. It's like the joint compound is absorbing the humidity from the air. It's hard for me to believe though, those spots have had a coat of Kilz Premium primer, 2 coats of ceiling paint, a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 + primer and 2 coats of ceiling paint. I wouldn't think anything would make it through that
The ceiling paint isn't designed for high humidity. As mentioned a kitchen and bath semigloss is the way to go.
I get that, but the same paint is in the hall bath and you never see any of the repairs. Also, the Zinsser primer is pretty darn thick and has a satin/semigloss sheen when dry. I also don't see any of the original screws or previous repairs done to the bathroom
Originally Posted by PW01
I'm seeing where I covered the screw heads with joint compound. It's like the joint compound is absorbing the humidity from the air. It's hard for me to believe though, those spots have had a coat of Kilz Premium primer, 2 coats of ceiling paint, a coat of Zinsser Bullseye 123 + primer and 2 coats of ceiling paint. I wouldn't think anything would make it through that
The ceiling paint isn't designed for high humidity. As mentioned a kitchen and bath semigloss is the way to go.
I get that, but the same paint is in the hall bath and you never see any of the repairs. Also, the Zinsser primer is pretty darn thick and has a satin/semigloss sheen when dry. I also don't see any of the original screws or previous repairs done to the bathroom
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Originally Posted by dbias
Nail or screw pops generally occur when the framing of the house flexes either from settling of the foundation or in the case of many attic spaces a lack of or disruption of attic ventilation causing flexing of the ceiling joists due to temp and humidity extremes.
The term ghosting typically refers to a darkening of the paint over nail or screw heads due to the temperature difference between the conditioned air inside the house, and the temperature of the paint inside and the conduction of cold from the outside traveling through the screw/nail at a faster rate than the framing studs themselves.
Are the screw pops raising back up or does the repaired area itself just have a different sheen than the original area?
The screw pops have been corrected, and are not returning. You can't see them at all under normal circumstances, just after a hot shower. They disappear again about 20 minutes after the shower
Nail or screw pops generally occur when the framing of the house flexes either from settling of the foundation or in the case of many attic spaces a lack of or disruption of attic ventilation causing flexing of the ceiling joists due to temp and humidity extremes.
The term ghosting typically refers to a darkening of the paint over nail or screw heads due to the temperature difference between the conditioned air inside the house, and the temperature of the paint inside and the conduction of cold from the outside traveling through the screw/nail at a faster rate than the framing studs themselves.
Are the screw pops raising back up or does the repaired area itself just have a different sheen than the original area?
The screw pops have been corrected, and are not returning. You can't see them at all under normal circumstances, just after a hot shower. They disappear again about 20 minutes after the shower
A couple of questions first:
How long has the bathroom had to dry before the repair and repainting?
Is there any way to access behind the sheetrock to see if it is damp, or mildew is forming?
The bathroom must be properly ventilated.
Off the top of my head, if the sheetrock is not damp on the back side of it, and there is no mildew the moisture from the shower is penetrating just the paint film causing the ghosting/flashing you're seeing. Because it is flat it dries out and disappears in a short time. Eventually it will mildew and/or fail, or my might even see the screw heads rusting, depending on the screws used. The penetration would only be through the flat paint itself, which is a good thing in this case. Flat paint is the worst paint you can apply in a bathroom. If there is a problem behind the sheetrock, that has to be corrected, which may require removing the drywall and correcting the issue, as crazy as that sounds! Builders are known for a quick low budget paint job creating problems like this not far down the road.
Without seeing it here's what I would suggest. If the top coat is a true ceiling paint, which is a dead flat. Get some good old fashioned slow drying oil primer. No showers a week prior to the application, and prime the entire ceiling, after any patch work has been done. A good coat, box rolled, 2x2 foot or 3x3 foot squares North to South followed by West to East, doing the whole ceiling in "boxes." Allow 24 hours dry time, and paint it with a latex Kitchen and Bath paint, two coats with the mfg recommended dry time. Keep in mind K&B paint has a sheen.
How long has the bathroom had to dry before the repair and repainting?
Is there any way to access behind the sheetrock to see if it is damp, or mildew is forming?
The bathroom must be properly ventilated.
Off the top of my head, if the sheetrock is not damp on the back side of it, and there is no mildew the moisture from the shower is penetrating just the paint film causing the ghosting/flashing you're seeing. Because it is flat it dries out and disappears in a short time. Eventually it will mildew and/or fail, or my might even see the screw heads rusting, depending on the screws used. The penetration would only be through the flat paint itself, which is a good thing in this case. Flat paint is the worst paint you can apply in a bathroom. If there is a problem behind the sheetrock, that has to be corrected, which may require removing the drywall and correcting the issue, as crazy as that sounds! Builders are known for a quick low budget paint job creating problems like this not far down the road.
Without seeing it here's what I would suggest. If the top coat is a true ceiling paint, which is a dead flat. Get some good old fashioned slow drying oil primer. No showers a week prior to the application, and prime the entire ceiling, after any patch work has been done. A good coat, box rolled, 2x2 foot or 3x3 foot squares North to South followed by West to East, doing the whole ceiling in "boxes." Allow 24 hours dry time, and paint it with a latex Kitchen and Bath paint, two coats with the mfg recommended dry time. Keep in mind K&B paint has a sheen.
The bathroom had about 48 hours to dry before the repairs. The joint compound was given 24 hours dry time before being sanded and primed. That was given 24 hours to dry before the first top coat which was followed 24 hours later by the second top coat. The paint is just a flat interior laytex (Porter Paints Pro-Flat interior laytex wall paint) which was used in the other bathroom that exhibits no issues.
The bathroom is well ventilated with a 150 CFM exhaust fan (50 CFM overkill) that is vented through the roof. Never any fog on the mirror. The back of the sheet rock is bone dry and exhibits no sign of mildew.
I agree that the moisture would penetrate the flat paint but am surprised that it would penetrate the Zinsser Bullseye + 123 and the Kilz Premium that was used after the original repair. I'm also confused that the hall bath has no issues and the same repairs were performed in there.
The problem really only shows itself in the repairs over the shower. I'm going to follow your advice and apply Zinsser BIN primer and see how that goes. If I use that primer would it be necessary to change paints and do the whole ceiling, or could I just prime the problem area and use the old paint? Thank you again for your insight!
The bathroom is well ventilated with a 150 CFM exhaust fan (50 CFM overkill) that is vented through the roof. Never any fog on the mirror. The back of the sheet rock is bone dry and exhibits no sign of mildew.
I agree that the moisture would penetrate the flat paint but am surprised that it would penetrate the Zinsser Bullseye + 123 and the Kilz Premium that was used after the original repair. I'm also confused that the hall bath has no issues and the same repairs were performed in there.
The problem really only shows itself in the repairs over the shower. I'm going to follow your advice and apply Zinsser BIN primer and see how that goes. If I use that primer would it be necessary to change paints and do the whole ceiling, or could I just prime the problem area and use the old paint? Thank you again for your insight!
I'm looking at Zinsser BIN which is shellac based and Zinsser Cover Stain which is oil based. Reccomdation?
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