Canadian gas. My test.

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I am trying to see if there is difference in gas from major suppliers. What I do is checking the ignition timing under full load in the 6 gear at the same speed. I have chosen 60 km/h mainly because it is safe. The RPM is about 1500. The car is Subaru BRZ. So far I have more or less reliable and repeatable results for Petro-Canada 87, Esso 87 and Esso 91. Also I have tested a 50/50 mix of PC 87 and Esso 91. The results. are surprising.

The baseline is Esso 91 because this octane is recommended by Subaru.

Esso 91 - ignition advancement 7-8 degrees.
Esso 87 - 5-6 degrees
PC 87 - 0 degrees,
And the surprising mix of Esso 91 + PC 87 - 0 degrees. There is no difference from pure PC 87.
 
Could be ethanol content related. The Esso 87 might have ethanol, the PC 87 not. MPG would suffer with the ethanol which may not be overcomable with the more advanced timing.

I personally believe that the distributors 'arrange' to have ethanol concentrations higher at the highest volume stations. High turnover mitigates the moisture problems. Stations for which there is lower turnover of fuel are more likely to receive ethanol free fuel which obviously has a higher caloric content, but technically a lower octane number.
 
I agree, it would be nice to know the ethanol content to see the wider picture. But to be honest, I am not very concerned about the fuel economy due to the ethanol content. I think the difference is minimal anyway: using 87 gas instead of 91 saves a lot more money. I am more concerned about the exhaust gas temperature. Ethanol increases the temperature and the ignition retarding increases the temperature. Ethanol + retarded ignition is the most undesirable and dangerous condition. I cannot control the ethanol content but I can control the timing and I think higher advancement is better for the engine and maybe better for the economy too.
 
Originally Posted by Ded Mazai
I agree, it would be nice to know the ethanol content to see the wider picture. But to be honest, I am not very concerned about the fuel economy due to the ethanol content. I think the difference is minimal anyway: using 87 gas instead of 91 saves a lot more money. I am more concerned about the exhaust gas temperature. Ethanol increases the temperature and the ignition retarding increases the temperature. Ethanol + retarded ignition is the most undesirable and dangerous condition. I cannot control the ethanol content but I can control the timing and I think higher advancement is better for the engine and maybe better for the economy too.


Can you look up fuel trim values next time you do the same experiment with your scantool?
 
There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.
 
Originally Posted by Kestas
There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.


It's actually cheaper up here now once again. I got gas in Niagara Falls NY last weekend and paid $2.81 a gallon, which worked out to $1.03 per liter when converted to CDN dollars. But gas up here can be found for under a dollar a liter in many locations, with some areas even under 90 cents a liter!
 
Yup, USD/CAD=1.3602 spot or 6CH19=0.73615 futures. There was a short period of time not too long ago, when Loonie was above parity and on par with Ozzie
 
Originally Posted by Ded Mazai
I am trying to see if there is difference in gas from major suppliers. What I do is checking the ignition timing under full load in the 6 gear at the same speed. I have chosen 60 km/h mainly because it is safe. The RPM is about 1500. The car is Subaru BRZ. So far I have more or less reliable and repeatable results for Petro-Canada 87, Esso 87 and Esso 91. Also I have tested a 50/50 mix of PC 87 and Esso 91. The results. are surprising.

The baseline is Esso 91 because this octane is recommended by Subaru.

Esso 91 - ignition advancement 7-8 degrees.
Esso 87 - 5-6 degrees
PC 87 - 0 degrees,
And the surprising mix of Esso 91 + PC 87 - 0 degrees. There is no difference from pure PC 87.


Wouldn't air temperature make a significant difference in this test?
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
It's $0.92/L here in the Hammer Pat.


I was at the Stoney Creek Costco yesterday and they had regular gas for 87.9 and premium for 101.9! I was driving the Corvette and unfortunately I had already filled up in Oakville before I left, and paid $122.9 for premium
frown.gif
The next time I'm heading to the US for our monthly trip there, we'll gas up at Costco along the way instead of gassing up in the US.
 
Originally Posted by Surestick

Wouldn't air temperature make a significant difference in this test?


It may make some difference. This is something to consider. I cannot see the difference since the winter is pretty mild in Toronto right now and the temperature stays within the range from -5 to +5. I am going to continue my test with other gas brands. On the day I fill up my tank I always double check the timing before and after. It takes about 15 minutes of driving for the ignition to adapt to the new gas.
 
Ok, guys, I am trying Shell 87. I had Esso 87 before and the timing advancement was about 5-6 degrees. Now it dropped to 0 again. So far Esso works the best for me. I can easily use the 87 octane if it is from Esso. When I put Shell 87 and saw the timing I decided to try an octane booster. No luck, It did nothing. I am pretty much done with the low octane gas from the major Canadian gas chains. I may try Canadian Tire gas as some people believe it is re-branded Esso.
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Kestas
There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.


It's actually cheaper up here now once again. I got gas in Niagara Falls NY last weekend and paid $2.81 a gallon, which worked out to $1.03 per liter when converted to CDN dollars. But gas up here can be found for under a dollar a liter in many locations, with some areas even under 90 cents a liter!

I know this is a month old post, but wouldn't the specific location matter? Kind of like finding higher prices near airport and popular tourist spots? I'm looking up prices on Gasbuddy today, and just to find a more competitive price I found $2.149/gallon for regular at the Costco in Rochester, NY. For Oakville, ON it's saying as low as 95.9 cents/liter. So if my conversions are correct at $1 US = $0.75348 CAD and 1 gallon = 3.78541L, that should convert to roughly $2.735/gallon.

When I visited BC a few years ago, someone suggested I fill up my tank in Washington and hopefully I wouldn't need to refuel until I got back. Said Canadian fuel prices were inevitably higher. I think I mapped out the prices then and that was correct. But then again there's volatility in the exchange rate and commodity markets, so it's not always a sure thing when they go out of whack.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Kestas
There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.


It's actually cheaper up here now once again. I got gas in Niagara Falls NY last weekend and paid $2.81 a gallon, which worked out to $1.03 per liter when converted to CDN dollars. But gas up here can be found for under a dollar a liter in many locations, with some areas even under 90 cents a liter!

I know this is a month old post, but wouldn't the specific location matter? Kind of like finding higher prices near airport and popular tourist spots? I'm looking up prices on Gasbuddy today, and just to find a more competitive price I found $2.149/gallon for regular at the Costco in Rochester, NY. For Oakville, ON it's saying as low as 95.9 cents/liter. So if my conversions are correct at $1 US = $0.75348 CAD and 1 gallon = 3.78541L, that should convert to roughly $2.735/gallon.

When I visited BC a few years ago, someone suggested I fill up my tank in Washington and hopefully I wouldn't need to refuel until I got back. Said Canadian fuel prices were inevitably higher. I think I mapped out the prices then and that was correct. But then again there's volatility in the exchange rate and commodity markets, so it's not always a sure thing when they go out of whack.

I have a place in Canada, and I *always* fill up at BJs in Rochester before I go, then top it off in Watertown before I cross into Canada. No matter the exchange rate, it's usually about $0.50 to $0.75 USD/Gal more expensive in Canada. I'll buy enough Canadian gas to get back to Watertown if I need to. (Note: I play in the Rideau Lakes area which is the middle of nowhere, so prices are a little higher than the cities)
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dadto2
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Kestas
There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.


It's actually cheaper up here now once again. I got gas in Niagara Falls NY last weekend and paid $2.81 a gallon, which worked out to $1.03 per liter when converted to CDN dollars. But gas up here can be found for under a dollar a liter in many locations, with some areas even under 90 cents a liter!

I know this is a month old post, but wouldn't the specific location matter? Kind of like finding higher prices near airport and popular tourist spots? I'm looking up prices on Gasbuddy today, and just to find a more competitive price I found $2.149/gallon for regular at the Costco in Rochester, NY. For Oakville, ON it's saying as low as 95.9 cents/liter. So if my conversions are correct at $1 US = $0.75348 CAD and 1 gallon = 3.78541L, that should convert to roughly $2.735/gallon.

When I visited BC a few years ago, someone suggested I fill up my tank in Washington and hopefully I wouldn't need to refuel until I got back. Said Canadian fuel prices were inevitably higher. I think I mapped out the prices then and that was correct. But then again there's volatility in the exchange rate and commodity markets, so it's not always a sure thing when they go out of whack.

I have a place in Canada, and I *always* fill up at BJs in Rochester before I go, then top it off in Watertown before I cross into Canada. No matter the exchange rate, it's usually about $0.50 to $0.75 USD/Gal more expensive in Canada. I'll buy enough Canadian gas to get back to Watertown if I need to. (Note: I play in the Rideau Lakes area which is the middle of nowhere, so prices are a little higher than the cities)

It was kind of strange in BC. For whatever reason, the gas prices were almost uniformly the same wherever I went, whether it was Richmond, Vancouver, North Vancouver, or even random locations around Victoria. But that price was always more than the equivalent at even an expensive station in Washington. But the thing I noticed in Washington was the availability of 92 AKI octane premium. That basically vanished in California back around 2001.
 
I want to update on my test. I have been using Esso 87 for a while until recently I started to feel some serious lack of power. I checked the timing and it was bad: about 0 degrees. I guess either quality of gas is not consistent or it is usual practice to change gas formulations. Interesting that I did not hear any pinging. So i cannot recommend using any 87 gas in place of 91 if your car needs 91.
 
Modern engines don't ping any more. They have knock sensors that allow the ECU to advance the timing to the point where it's just about to knock, but before it does. You could probably fill it with 85 AKI fuel and it won't knock. It will reduce the performance and fuel economy though.

It's a lot more advanced than it used to be. My 1995 Integra GS-R had a distributor and a knock sensor, where I understand it would retard the timing with a vacuum mechanism.
 
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