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Canadian gas. My test. #4959670 12/23/18 06:00 PM
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Ded Mazai Offline OP
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I am trying to see if there is difference in gas from major suppliers. What I do is checking the ignition timing under full load in the 6 gear at the same speed. I have chosen 60 km/h mainly because it is safe. The RPM is about 1500. The car is Subaru BRZ. So far I have more or less reliable and repeatable results for Petro-Canada 87, Esso 87 and Esso 91. Also I have tested a 50/50 mix of PC 87 and Esso 91. The results. are surprising.

The baseline is Esso 91 because this octane is recommended by Subaru.

Esso 91 - ignition advancement 7-8 degrees.
Esso 87 - 5-6 degrees
PC 87 - 0 degrees,
And the surprising mix of Esso 91 + PC 87 - 0 degrees. There is no difference from pure PC 87.


BRZ | M1 HM 5W-20, FU | PZ Synchromesh.
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4959689 12/23/18 06:23 PM
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Under significant load is where you might see the difference


“This disease making us more cruel to one another than if we are doggs.” -- Samuel Pepys 1666
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4959792 12/23/18 08:04 PM
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Could be ethanol content related. The Esso 87 might have ethanol, the PC 87 not. MPG would suffer with the ethanol which may not be overcomable with the more advanced timing.

I personally believe that the distributors 'arrange' to have ethanol concentrations higher at the highest volume stations. High turnover mitigates the moisture problems. Stations for which there is lower turnover of fuel are more likely to receive ethanol free fuel which obviously has a higher caloric content, but technically a lower octane number.

Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: pitzel] #4959849 12/23/18 09:20 PM
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I agree, it would be nice to know the ethanol content to see the wider picture. But to be honest, I am not very concerned about the fuel economy due to the ethanol content. I think the difference is minimal anyway: using 87 gas instead of 91 saves a lot more money. I am more concerned about the exhaust gas temperature. Ethanol increases the temperature and the ignition retarding increases the temperature. Ethanol + retarded ignition is the most undesirable and dangerous condition. I cannot control the ethanol content but I can control the timing and I think higher advancement is better for the engine and maybe better for the economy too.


BRZ | M1 HM 5W-20, FU | PZ Synchromesh.
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4959855 12/23/18 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ded Mazai
I agree, it would be nice to know the ethanol content to see the wider picture. But to be honest, I am not very concerned about the fuel economy due to the ethanol content. I think the difference is minimal anyway: using 87 gas instead of 91 saves a lot more money. I am more concerned about the exhaust gas temperature. Ethanol increases the temperature and the ignition retarding increases the temperature. Ethanol + retarded ignition is the most undesirable and dangerous condition. I cannot control the ethanol content but I can control the timing and I think higher advancement is better for the engine and maybe better for the economy too.


Can you look up fuel trim values next time you do the same experiment with your scantool?

Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4960142 12/24/18 08:46 AM
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There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.

Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Kestas] #4960158 12/24/18 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kestas
There was a time where Canadian gas was markedly cheaper than in the US and I would fill up there. My sister could tell by smelling my car that I filled up in Canada.


It's actually cheaper up here now once again. I got gas in Niagara Falls NY last weekend and paid $2.81 a gallon, which worked out to $1.03 per liter when converted to CDN dollars. But gas up here can be found for under a dollar a liter in many locations, with some areas even under 90 cents a liter!


2018 Corvette, 21k, M1 ESP Formula 5w30 & NAPA Gold
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Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4960339 12/24/18 01:02 PM
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It's $0.92/L here in the Hammer Pat.


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There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4960737 12/24/18 10:34 PM
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Yup, USD/CAD=1.3602 spot or 6CH19=0.73615 futures. There was a short period of time not too long ago, when Loonie was above parity and on par with Ozzie


“This disease making us more cruel to one another than if we are doggs.” -- Samuel Pepys 1666
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4961389 12/25/18 08:26 PM
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Surestick Offline
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Originally Posted by Ded Mazai
I am trying to see if there is difference in gas from major suppliers. What I do is checking the ignition timing under full load in the 6 gear at the same speed. I have chosen 60 km/h mainly because it is safe. The RPM is about 1500. The car is Subaru BRZ. So far I have more or less reliable and repeatable results for Petro-Canada 87, Esso 87 and Esso 91. Also I have tested a 50/50 mix of PC 87 and Esso 91. The results. are surprising.

The baseline is Esso 91 because this octane is recommended by Subaru.

Esso 91 - ignition advancement 7-8 degrees.
Esso 87 - 5-6 degrees
PC 87 - 0 degrees,
And the surprising mix of Esso 91 + PC 87 - 0 degrees. There is no difference from pure PC 87.


Wouldn't air temperature make a significant difference in this test?

Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: StevieC] #4962617 12/27/18 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by StevieC
It's $0.92/L here in the Hammer Pat.


I was at the Stoney Creek Costco yesterday and they had regular gas for 87.9 and premium for 101.9! I was driving the Corvette and unfortunately I had already filled up in Oakville before I left, and paid $122.9 for premium frown The next time I'm heading to the US for our monthly trip there, we'll gas up at Costco along the way instead of gassing up in the US.

Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4964690 12/29/18 08:59 PM
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Loonie is low, doesn't make sense for Canadians to gas up in USA now


“This disease making us more cruel to one another than if we are doggs.” -- Samuel Pepys 1666
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Surestick] #4967313 01/01/19 08:35 PM
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Ded Mazai Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Surestick

Wouldn't air temperature make a significant difference in this test?


It may make some difference. This is something to consider. I cannot see the difference since the winter is pretty mild in Toronto right now and the temperature stays within the range from -5 to +5. I am going to continue my test with other gas brands. On the day I fill up my tank I always double check the timing before and after. It takes about 15 minutes of driving for the ignition to adapt to the new gas.


BRZ | M1 HM 5W-20, FU | PZ Synchromesh.
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4971508 01/06/19 04:32 PM
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Ok, guys, I am trying Shell 87. I had Esso 87 before and the timing advancement was about 5-6 degrees. Now it dropped to 0 again. So far Esso works the best for me. I can easily use the 87 octane if it is from Esso. When I put Shell 87 and saw the timing I decided to try an octane booster. No luck, It did nothing. I am pretty much done with the low octane gas from the major Canadian gas chains. I may try Canadian Tire gas as some people believe it is re-branded Esso.


BRZ | M1 HM 5W-20, FU | PZ Synchromesh.
Re: Canadian gas. My test. [Re: Ded Mazai] #4995004 01/29/19 07:50 PM
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What are you using to test? I want to compare Esso 93 vs Petro 94 on my tuned C43 AMG. I have torque app with bluetooth dongle.


17 MB C43 AMG - Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w40
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