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Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? #4958537 12/22/18 09:06 AM
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Jmoney7269 Offline OP
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Has there been any significant proven gains by adding bypass filtration to a gas engine like a 2019 Toyota tundra or the new 6.2 Chevy Silverado DI engine?
My current tundra has 264k miles on it and doesnt burn a drop of oil between changes. I love the truck but she is starting to show her age and may upgrade at the middle of 2019 and turn this thing into a shop/farm truck.
The reason I'm asking is because I'm fixing to startup a new bbq association called the TEXAS BBQ SOCIETY with a special top notch proprietary and patented judging system and software...... I may be traveling alot and it sure would be nice to be able to change the oil once every 30k miles or so. I will be pulling a camper. I'm not a really big fan of diesel vehicles unless I'm really pulling a load, which I wont be. My family has had such great success with YOTAS that I wont ever change.
My uncles have Tacomas with over 500k miles, my dad is a traveling RN and has over 600k on his 2001 Tacoma, my mom still has her 94 Camry which has close to 400k miles. That Camry is the car that she lends out to any of us that may need an extra car for whatever reason for a few weeks, still runs strong. My tundra has had a life of "drive it like you stole it" pulling wood trailers, bbq trailers, long trips and flat out being mistreated. Needless to say I love toyotas and my next one i really want to see how many miles i can get out of it....i anticipate 50k miles a year. The only reason I say Silverado also is because I like how quiet the cab is...... my wifes Tahoe is dead quiet going down the road but even as a 2015 Its had it's fair share of problems already. My tundra is definitely louder in the cab


Good bbq ain't cheap and cheap bbq ain't good!
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4958606 12/22/18 10:55 AM
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Maybe if you're doing 30k mile oil change intervals... I kind of want to add bypass filtration to my car but only because I think it's cool. I'm not going to though


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
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Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4958620 12/22/18 11:08 AM
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If your going to do extended oil changes then a bypass filter will help extend the changes. But you need to do a UOA or two along the way or risk damage. And unless you have a big oil sump with $100 worth of oil in most cases its cheaper to change the oil than do a UOA.

A bypass oil filter also normally has additional fittings and oil lines. All possibilities for oil leaks.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4959199 12/23/18 01:40 AM
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xtell Offline
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I run Frantz and Baldwin bypass filters on my work trucks and two cars. I also run in-line filtration, using standard spin on oil filters, on the automatic transmissions and power steering systems. I have never run an oil analysis on any fluids so I do not have any data as far as particle size counts (prior to and after installation of bypass filtration). However, I do know that the engines have never had any internal parts breakage issues and they do not burn oil. I get much longer service life out of automatic transmissions when I compare the mileage on my work trucks versus transmissions in other contractors, that I know, trucks. Power steering systems overall continue to be serviceable without any major issues. I think adding additional filtration and auxiliary cooling to my vehicles has to have helped them continue to function properly way past normal service life. Other people decide on more frequent fluid / filter changes rather than running Bypass and they can achieve similar results. To each his own...

Nuff said,

xtell

Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4959816 12/23/18 08:37 PM
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If you're really trying to get to 30k oil changes bypass could be beneficial, but it will take a VERY long time to recoup the money spent on the bypass system and the oil analysis along the way to verify that your chosen course of action is viable. All the new Toyota's are specified for 10k service with the first 2 oil changes free. Even if you're putting on 30k a year would it be that much of an inconvenience to service the truck 3 times a year? Also if you're running a 30k interval kiss your warranty goodbye.

I have a bypass system on my Toyota 4Runner, but it's for fun not for any delusion of cost benefits. Honestly you're probably better served changing every 10k with Super Tech 0w20 than running an expensive or boutique oil out to 30k with a bypass system. Not to mention that adding a bypass system to an engine with a canister filter may also present it's own unique challenges compared to a spin on filter equipped engine.


Luke
P-3C and P-8A Maritime Weapons and Tactics Instructor, Instructor Tactical Coordinator and Mission Commander
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4961158 12/25/18 02:18 PM
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I've been using Frantz oil filters for over 50 years now and for me the main advantage is that it's much easier to change the filter media and add a quart of oil than to change the oil.

Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4961386 12/25/18 08:20 PM
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As a famous person once said, you need to get rid of the contaminates (like iron) so they do not cause wear beyond the normal wear rate in PPM/1000 miles. Your choice to filter them out or dump them out. And of course you cannot deplete the additive package (TBN) below the minimum.

For 99.9% of vehicles, the answer is to dump out the contaminates.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: FlyNavyP3] #4968745 01/03/19 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
If you're really trying to get to 30k oil changes bypass could be beneficial, but it will take a VERY long time to recoup the money spent on the bypass system and the oil analysis along the way to verify that your chosen course of action is viable. All the new Toyota's are specified for 10k service with the first 2 oil changes free. Even if you're putting on 30k a year would it be that much of an inconvenience to service the truck 3 times a year? Also if you're running a 30k interval kiss your warranty goodbye.

I have a bypass system on my Toyota 4Runner, but it's for fun not for any delusion of cost benefits. Honestly you're probably better served changing every 10k with Super Tech 0w20 than running an expensive or boutique oil out to 30k with a bypass system. Not to mention that adding a bypass system to an engine with a canister filter may also present it's own unique challenges compared to a spin on filter equipped engine.



Yes!

BP filter systems are a fiscal savings tools to extend the OCIs, to reach a ROI that exceeds the cost of the system and maintenance thereof. They pay back easily on large sump systems that are measure in gallons because of the economy of scale. They rarely pay off on a typical gasser in personal use.

UOAs are a must with extended OCIs. And PCs would be a good idea as well.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4972546 01/07/19 07:39 PM
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IMHO. the finer you can filter oil to the better. back in the early 70s i found a very good articial from Oklahoma U. that showed if you can filter oil down to 1 to 2 microns. engine life will go to 300,000 to 400,000 miles.

Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: red7404] #4972948 01/08/19 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. the finer you can filter oil to the better. back in the early 70s i found a very good articial from Oklahoma U. that showed if you can filter oil down to 1 to 2 microns. engine life will go to 300,000 to 400,000 miles.


Studies from that era are based on products from that era. That kind of info is grossly outdated and essentially, worthless to us today. Anything that showed an improvement used baselines that were horridly worse than what we can see today.

There are all manner of vehicles that run 300k, 500k, even a million miles on just good routine PM maintenance plans. I personally have a 2005 Grand Marquis my wife drives; has 258k miles on it and runs as good as the day it was new. Admittedly, we do put money in it to keep it in great shape, but we've not ever cracked the engine open. Just had to replace "normal" stuff like plugs, belts, hoses, etc. The engine just keeps purring along. And the UOAs show that the wear trends are as good on that engine as any other 4.6L mod motor out there in the world at large. I'm just one of thousands whom keep their engines running well past 200k, and don't use any BP filters, no syn fluids, no aftermarket magic; just good consistent PM.

I'm not saying BP filtration does not work; it most certainly does. But folks don't understand how and why it can be most effective. There is no data (none, zip, nada, zilch) that shows extra fine filtration extends life cycles of equipment when "normal" maintenance is the alternative. Not one study; not one paper. This is because the two main abrasive contaminants are controlled not by the oil filter, but by the air filter (silica) and the anti-agglomerates (soot). Until these contaminants were to get large enough, in enough quantity, there's no real tangible effect of BP filtration because it cannot catch what is not present.

BP filtration (what we'd typically see with an FS2500, EaBP100, Puradyn, etc) is very effective once the particles get to 2um to 3um and larger. But when it comes to soot, it starts out measured in nm (nano-meters). A typical soot particle starts out life at 40nm. It has to grow (amalgamate; co-join with other soot particles) 100x larger just to get to 4um. Because the oil additive package has products (detergents and anti-agglomerates) in it to keep soot from amalgamating, the soot will generally stay smaller than what a BP filter can catch, at least in large quantities. As the OCIs continue to extend, the soot will certainly become larger; this is when the BP element can really do a great job. But UOA data shows us that "normal" OCI durations (out to 15k miles) generally see no benefit from using a BP filter; the wear data shows no advantage to using a BP element if you change oil every 5k, 10k or even 15k miles.

Clean oil is a good thing. But there is a law of diminishing returns when making it "cleaner" does not pay off; you don't get the ROI payback for your money spent in all cases. Once oil is clean enough, making it "cleaner" does not mean you're going to get less wear. And in many cases, the aftermarket products used to "super-clean" a system have little if any effect in normal use.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: red7404] #4973026 01/08/19 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. the finer you can filter oil to the better. back in the early 70s i found a very good articial from Oklahoma U. that showed if you can filter oil down to 1 to 2 microns. engine life will go to 300,000 to 400,000 miles.

My own personal study shows such engine life is also attainable with OEM oil filters grin


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
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1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
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Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4973820 01/09/19 02:28 AM
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We ran bypass setups from Amsoil on our fleet vans for almost two decades. Based on extensive real world results we do not any more. Too expensive, adds failure points, etc. Modern engines easily outlast the vehicle with proper oil and filter changes.


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Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4982598 01/17/19 03:59 PM
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I run bypass as a hobby and since i have lab access, try different filters and see what i can get.


Certified Analyst ( by no means an expert Much to learn )
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: Jmoney7269] #4983060 01/18/19 12:03 AM
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Not really because they only get down to about 2 microns and 2 microns and lower can still cause engine wear including GDI soot particles (in large accumulations) and they are nano in size.

Oil is really great today and engines are really tolerant to the debris floating around in between changes. Pick a good oil, change it at a reasonable interval.


'18 Caravan - 42k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Any point in bypass filtration on a gasser? [Re: red7404] #4983061 01/18/19 12:05 AM
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StevieC Offline
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Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. the finer you can filter oil to the better. back in the early 70s i found a very good articial from Oklahoma U. that showed if you can filter oil down to 1 to 2 microns. engine life will go to 300,000 to 400,000 miles.

I got to 300K miles in my Santa Fe with standard filters and good oil and there was no oil consumption at that point either. If the camshaft hadn't snapped from a casting defect I would still be driving it.


'18 Caravan - 42k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
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