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Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4965068 12/30/18 09:51 AM
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Artem Offline
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She should be alright. She’s young. Many will say it’s still breaking in, LOL.

I had a 98 Camry that showed abnormal bearing wear regardless of what oil I used. Some said it wouldn’t last and I’d start getting knock soon. Well... it’s been another 120k and many many years and she’s still kicking. Still producing abnormal copper and lead wear, compared to averages. 330k on it now. All original.

Your plan sounds good. Use up the Lube currently in there and then try something thicker to see if it helps. Otherwise... you’ve got a lemon with what seems like marshmallows for bearings.

crackmeup


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Artem] #4966008 12/31/18 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Artem
She should be alright. She’s young. Many will say it’s still breaking in, LOL...... Otherwise... you’ve got a lemon with what seems like marshmallows for bearings.

crackmeup


I’m not sure how to take that


15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4966044 12/31/18 12:05 PM
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I am running the Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30. I just ran one oil change interval, after switching brands. The next oil change, I will send in an analysis to see how it compares with the previous oil I was using. I have already sent 4 samples for analysis, & also having a slight fuel dilution issue. Seems to be staying in the 3.4-4% range over the last 3 samples, but the first initial sample was over 8%.

With fuel dilution present, I have been running around 3000 mile OCI.

Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #4966638 01/01/19 06:18 AM
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UOA is trend analysis. One sample does not show a problem exists, especially when it comes to wear metals. My other issue with UOA, in most cases there really is nothing you can do about an issue, except maybe change the oil earlier, but then, that is not really a solutions is it. In just about all cases, IMO, the engine just goes on to live a happy life regardless of wear numbers. We over analyze!

Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Spector] #4966682 01/01/19 07:53 AM
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dnewton3 Online Content
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Originally Posted by Spector
UOA is trend analysis. One sample does not show a problem exists, especially when it comes to wear metals. My other issue with UOA, in most cases there really is nothing you can do about an issue, except maybe change the oil earlier, but then, that is not really a solutions is it. In just about all cases, IMO, the engine just goes on to live a happy life regardless of wear numbers. We over analyze!


I agree that it's not time to panic, but continue with analysis and try to determine root cause.

Regarding the use of UOA data, that simply depends upon the sources of wear metals and how much ease or difficulty there is in finding the source, and then the resultant efforts if repairs are needed ...
An example would be high Al in Ford mod-motor engines. The timing chain tensioner rails are nylon backed by aluminum. Once the tensioner begins to fail, the chain slack causes slap that beats the nylon off the rails, and then you're left with steel on aluminum; hence a slight uptick in Fe and a big uptick in Al. There are many successful diagnostic stories of UOAs finding the significant uptick of the Al, and successful repairs before continued damage happens elsewhere in the engine. And because this is on the front of the engine, it's not absurdly difficult to repair.

As you mention, there are times when OCI frequency may be increased just as a stop-gap measure. Perhaps one sees a coolant leak develop. At least you can flush out the coolant along with the oil more often until you have time to tear heads off at a later date? Other times, you may decide to just ride the degradation to demise; perhaps you see Cu and Pb and Fe indicating journal bearing failure in an older, nearly worthless rusted out beater truck you inherited from an uncle, and you use it only to keep your own truck from beatings on the farm? Might as well drive that until it's death as there's no value in fixing it.

But, that ease of diagnosis isn't always the case. This EB engine in this thread exhibits issues that elude us. This may be because not enough 3.5EB engines have failed yet to discover the tell-tale traits of underlying root cause(s).

If you do UOAs infrequently, and don't understand both the macro and micro implications of the UOAs, then it's really hard to tell what's going on until a major issue simply reveals the degradation in an undesirable manner.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: dnewton3] #4967967 01/02/19 03:49 PM
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Just to reiterate,

I did this UOA to establish a baseline, from what I considered to be a healthy engine. After taking the sample (but before I received results), I began investigating others’ results. This disappointed me; what I saw in others’ UOA’s was Cu, Fe (and even Silicon) higher (3x +) than what I was typically seeing in my other vehicle. Then my results came in. Fuel was high, but not unheard of (Blackstone under-reporting noted), Pb was high, higher than I was seeing almost anywhere. I began further investigation and am currently thinking there is no Pb in the bearings’ metallurgy, as Whimsey noted, and some other sources indicated.

So, the Pb is a mystery.
The fuel will have to be dealt with.
THE ENGINE RUNS GREAT!!!!! There are no driveability symptoms that I am aware of.
Fe and Cu might just be the nature of the beast, or they might be indicative of something.

The van goes into the dealer for some unrelated recall stuff, but maybe I will discuss this with the Service Mgr. My expectations are low, but maybe this needs to be in my records since van is still under warranty. Or maybe I should just zip it. Since it runs great, I’m sure Ford will yawn, not freak out (like I have).

Originally Posted by Whimsey
I thought Ford engines don't have lead components that show up in wear, like from crank shaft bearings or journals, as many older or non Ford engines have. That seems odd for a Ford engine to to have such a high level of lead as a wear metal in the UOA. Did you use some oil or fuel additive for this OCI period that may have lead in it? None of my Modular engines or the 2.3 EB engines show anything but VERY small amounts of lead in their UOA's.

Whimsey



Last edited by Impatient; 01/02/19 03:57 PM.

15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB 35k mi; 6.1k on PP 5w30 -> PUP [Re: Impatient] #5125850 06/05/19 11:39 AM
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New UOA, this time running Ultra Platinum. Fuel very high (again), lead down considerably, copper, iron, silicon not as good as I had hoped. Oxidation high???

Previous fill saw lots of highway miles, and was on (mostly) new formula Platinum (SN+?); it was 5 qt SN+, 1 qt SN (older formula). This fill is actually 5 qts Ultra Plat (2017 vintage), and 1 qt SN normal Plat (early 2018 vintage, same as the 1 qt above). This fill has seen more sitting, parked conditions than driving: 5 mo, 900 mi. I am about to leave on an extended, 8-9000 mile summer trip, and thought I would check oil (thru dipstick, without draining) before the trip. Based on what I see, I intend to drain and replace with something different, very different.

I hate to take this to a dealer, despite warranty, though I might take it to a well-regarded independent (though I have only used them for state inspections. I “fired” my previous independent). I don’t know source of fuel, but I hate to keep running this van with fuel-compromised oil. No matter what oil I put in, it will get subjected to fuel issue. Maybe something more stout will hold up better, but seems better oil is only a bandaid.

Your thoughts?

818F73C5-167D-407C-A6F3-E63F5CF2EC3E.png
Last edited by Impatient; 06/05/19 11:51 AM.

15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #5129547 06/09/19 06:12 PM
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ZZman Offline
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That add pack looks weak


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis.
2007 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT.
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: ZZman] #5134542 06/15/19 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ZZman
That add pack looks weak


Could you be more specific?


15 Ford Transit 250 3.5EB Turbo PPPUP 5w30
07 Subaru OBXT 2.5 Turbo Castrol Euro 0w30
Re: 2015 3.5EB Ecoboost Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 [Re: Impatient] #5134576 06/15/19 01:46 AM
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Have you thought about Havoline? Couldn't hurt.


Tiger862
2018 Grand Caravan
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