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Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4958847
12/22/18 03:19 PM
12/22/18 03:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,674
Toronto
PeterPolyol Offline
PeterPolyol  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,674
Toronto
This is how Civics of that era behave when the fuel level is low, slow pressure buildup, long crank to start. The fact that waiting for the pump to finish priming helps a bit suggests fuel pressure ie filter. On the right track to replace the filter, can't hurt to change it


There's no replacement...'scosity for natural viscosity
Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: mk378] #4958890
12/22/18 04:21 PM
12/22/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Originally Posted by mk378
Turning the key on but don't crank, the check engine light should come on for about exactly 2 seconds then go out. Every time, without fail.

Delayed turn-off of the check engine light is either the main relay or the ECU. If the light is staying on, the ECU is not properly booted up and the engine cannot start.

Check the ECU ground wires on the thermostat housing they can cause a lot of ECU related weirdness.


Takes longer than 2 seconds for check engine light to go away.

Is the action of depressing the Accelerator pedal to the floor when trying to start car somehow bypassing the ECU (making it think that it’s flooded)?

We resoldered the main relay but we believe that it might still be bad just by the age itself (1994).

How do we test ECU?
How do we really know that it could be the Main Relay.

Before resoldering the Main relay, the only time we had issues starting the car was when it rained.

After resoldering the relay we started to experience the other symptoms.

Please advise

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: PeterPolyol] #4959978
12/23/18 10:48 PM
12/23/18 10:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 374
northern NY
Driz Offline
Driz  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 374
northern NY
Sounds like fuel delivery. Filter or pump. Might even being that old have crud blocking the sock on the pickup in the tank. Remember, japmobiles have those wonderful access hatches under the back seat. You Can very easily yank that fuel pump in a few minutes Unlike all the rest of the garbage cars out there. Sort of ironic since I’m like all the rest🙄,those Japanese fuel pumps almost never failed.
You might pop off the upper cover and see of that timing belt is stretched or tensioner slipped. It is only intention by one tiny little 10 or 12 mm head bolt. Remember those engines are interference engines and if you snap a timing belt you almost always destroy the engine. That one should be a belt number three being changed at 60,000. Check for ( if they put it on there) on the timing cover the sticker showing when it was last changed and make sure or just change it will be done with it. And yes those belts it will snap around 65,000 without hot rotting you’re dogging it just going down the road, I’ve done it.

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4960303
12/24/18 11:25 AM
12/24/18 11:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 120
Georgia, USA
RevelationLion Offline
RevelationLion  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 120
Georgia, USA
Sounds like the main relay under the driver's side dash; it's a common problem with Hondas. I just had this problem this summer. The car would turn but not start in high humidity. When the car won't start, tap on the main relay a few times and it will probably start; the points crack over time. Resolder or buy and install a new relay.


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Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4976203
01/11/19 02:20 PM
01/11/19 02:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Update:

Replaced fuel filter and noticed that the check engine light would go away a few seconds after turning ignition (not cranking). The car started fine each time and no check engine delay was observed.

We wanted to see if it would act up in rainy weather so we waited for another rainy day.

Rained last week and so we tried starting the car like normal and without paying attention to Check Engine Light. It started fine.

As the day went on and the rain continued throughout the day we decided to try to start the car again and the car would only crank and not start. It was then that we observed a permanent check engine light when just turning on ignition (without trying to crank or start).
We decided to buy a new main relay (Genuine part by Mitsuba) and we replaced it this morning.

We tried starting the car under cool weather (no rain) and it would only crank and not start. We noticed that the check engine light does not turn off after a few seconds of turning the ignition. The check engine light stays on.

We noticed that the fuel pump whirl sound does not come on so we decided to check for fuel pressure at the fuel filter. No fuel coming out of fuel line to filter when cranking or trying to start.

Again, no fuel pump whirl sound that can be heard when turning ignition (not trying to start or crank).


We are wondering if it’s a fuel pump issue (heard it’s rare) or the ECU (mentioned by forum member earlier).

What can we do next?

Any advice is greatly appreciated

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4976216
01/11/19 02:31 PM
01/11/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,273
Texas
WyrTwister Offline
WyrTwister  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,273
Texas
Has the fuel filter been replaced ? Can you remove the filter and attach a rubber hose to the line from the tank . And turn the ignition / fule pump on & see how much fuel is pumped ?

Where is it located ?

Does the fuel system have a place ( like a Schrader valve ) that you can check fuel pressure ?


Wyr
God bless
Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4976239
01/11/19 02:56 PM
01/11/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Won’t let me edit so let me re-post but with corrections


Update:

Replaced fuel filter and noticed that the check engine light would go away a few seconds after turning ignition (not cranking). The car started fine each time and no check engine delay was observed.

We wanted to see if it would act up in rainy weather so we waited for another rainy day.

Rained last week and so we tried starting the car like normal and without paying attention to Check Engine Light. It started fine.

As the day went on and the rain continued throughout the day we decided to try to start the car again and the car would only crank and NOT start. It was then that we observed a permanent check engine light when just turning on ignition (without trying to crank or start).
We decided to buy a new main relay (Genuine part by Mitsuba) and we replaced it this morning.

We tried starting the car under cool weather (no rain) and it would only crank and not start. We noticed that the check engine light does NOT turn off after a few seconds of turning the ignition. The check engine light stays on.

We now notice that the fuel pump whirl sound is not heard when turning on the ignition (without starting car). Since we CANNOT hear the fuel pump we decided to check for fuel pressure at the fuel filter. We removed the fuel line going to the fuel filter and no fuel came out when cranking car.

Again, no fuel pump whirl sound that can be heard when turning ignition (not trying to start or crank).


We are wondering if it’s a fuel pump issue (heard it’s rare) or the ECU (mentioned by forum member earlier).

What can we do next?

Any advice is greatly appreciated

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4976357
01/11/19 05:22 PM
01/11/19 05:22 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 971
Frogland / Brittany / Canada
Popsy Offline
Popsy  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 971
Frogland / Brittany / Canada
See if the fuel pump is getting current first.

Edit : already checked maybe?

Last edited by Popsy; 01/11/19 05:22 PM.

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Mazda 6 2.3, M1 0W40 | Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40
Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4976518
01/11/19 08:25 PM
01/11/19 08:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Update:

Car finally started later on the day after turning ignition (not starting car) and waiting for the check engine light to turn off.

Took about 1 minute for the check engine light to go away and heard the the fuel pump whirl just before car started.

Please advise

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4977086
01/12/19 02:13 PM
01/12/19 02:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Update:
Car not starting today due to rain and check engine light not turning off when turning ignition (not trying to start).

Trying to figure out if its the ECM since the main relay was just replaced.

Please advise

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: RevelationLion] #4977096
01/12/19 02:27 PM
01/12/19 02:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,371
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
JC1 Offline
JC1  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,371
Oshawa, Ontario Canada
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Sounds like the main relay under the driver's side dash; it's a common problem with Hondas. I just had this problem this summer. The car would turn but not start in high humidity. When the car won't start, tap on the main relay a few times and it will probably start; the points crack over time. Resolder or buy and install a new relay.


+1 on this.i would check this first.


2015 Grand Caravan SXT Plus 5w-20 Valvoline SynPower/Fram Ultra Filter
1997 Honda Civic CX 5w-30 PPPP/Fram Ultra Filter
Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: JC1] #4977524
01/12/19 10:12 PM
01/12/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Originally Posted by JC1
Originally Posted by RevelationLion
Sounds like the main relay under the driver's side dash; it's a common problem with Hondas. I just had this problem this summer. The car would turn but not start in high humidity. When the car won't start, tap on the main relay a few times and it will probably start; the points crack over time. Resolder or buy and install a new relay.


+1 on this.i would check this first.



We mentioned above that we replaced the main relay and we are still having the same issues.


Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4977858
01/13/19 10:21 AM
01/13/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,631
USA
mk378 Offline
mk378  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,631
USA
When you know the main relay is good, this problem is the ECU. It is one of the more common ways they fail.

You may be able to rebuild ECU with new capacitors.

Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: Gito] #4978328
01/13/19 08:04 PM
01/13/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,592
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Online content
clinebarger  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,592
Fort Worth, Texas
I would start with checking the Inputs & Outputs at the Main Relay.....Using either a Power Probe or a Incandescent Test Light.

Terminal 1. Green/Yellow wire......Fuel Pump Control, The ECM provides a Ground on this circuit for Fuel Pump Relay coil control.
Terminal 2. Blue/White wire..........Crank Voltage Input, Provides Power with starter engaged.
Terminal 4. Yellow/Green wire......Fuel Pump Output, Provides Power to the Fuel Pump.

Terminal 3. Black Wire..................Ground for PFI Relay Coil.
Terminal 5. Black/Yellow wire........Ignition Power for PFI Relay Coil (FP Power also comes from this source)
Terminal 6. Yellow/Black wire........Output too ECM, Power to turn-on the ECM.
Terminal 7. Yellow/White wire........Battery Power PFI Relay.

See if your getting a Ground at Terminal #1 at the same time the check engine lamp is illuminated!

[Linked Image]


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2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: 1994 Civic LX, 1.5L hard to start [Re: clinebarger] #4978372
01/13/19 08:52 PM
01/13/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Gito Offline OP
Gito  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 725
CA
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I would start with checking the Inputs & Outputs at the Main Relay.....Using either a Power Probe or a Incandescent Test Light.

Terminal 1. Green/Yellow wire......Fuel Pump Control, The ECM provides a Ground on this circuit for Fuel Pump Relay coil control.
Terminal 2. Blue/White wire..........Crank Voltage Input, Provides Power with starter engaged.
Terminal 4. Yellow/Green wire......Fuel Pump Output, Provides Power to the Fuel Pump.

Terminal 3. Black Wire..................Ground for PFI Relay Coil.
Terminal 5. Black/Yellow wire........Ignition Power for PFI Relay Coil (FP Power also comes from this source)
Terminal 6. Yellow/Black wire........Output too ECM, Power to turn-on the ECM.
Terminal 7. Yellow/White wire........Battery Power PFI Relay.

See if your getting a Ground at Terminal #1 at the same time the check engine lamp is illuminated!

[Linked Image]



Going to need some help here
Are we checking the connector to the main relay and the main relay?
Are there any steps that we can follow?

Please advise

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