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Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: AP9] #4940457 12/01/18 09:35 AM
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alarmguy Offline
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Originally Posted by AP9
If it weren't for the tax subsidies, E85 would invariably be worse value for the money at point-of-sale. Probably even more expensive per gallon.


Its amazing how stupid and dumbed down many of us Americans have become.

Ethanol in fuel does nothing except enrich the family incomes of the people you elect to office. What really drives me crazy is it is so blatant, Ethanol does far more harm to the environment.

and those tax subsidies? again, dumbed down Americans think there is such a thing as government money. Not thinking that the government is taking the money from your paycheck and redistributing it to causes that they think best which is usually whatever special interest group puts the most money into their campaign.

Last edited by alarmguy; 12/01/18 09:36 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #4945527 12/06/18 11:21 PM
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TiredTrucker Offline
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Yep, it sure enriches my family income! Or at least, lets me keep more of it. Filled up with E85 yesterday for $1.11 a gallon.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: TiredTrucker] #4945733 12/07/18 09:37 AM
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Rmay635703 Offline
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Exactly above.

E85 is a purely monetary decision

When it’s half the price of regular gas it’s worth burning in spades.

It’s also great racing fuel

Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #4946665 12/08/18 01:54 PM
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hatt Offline OP
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It doesn't look like there are very many areas where it makes financial sense.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #4946681 12/08/18 02:29 PM
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Rmay635703 Offline
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Originally Posted by hatt
It doesn't look like there are very many areas where it makes financial sense.


One of the only things good about flyover country in the middle
$0.85 e85

Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: Rmay635703] #4946708 12/08/18 03:39 PM
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hatt Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by hatt
It doesn't look like there are very many areas where it makes financial sense.


One of the only things good about flyover country in the middle
$0.85 e85

If we didn't waste most of the ethanol by putting it in regular gas a lot more places could have cheap e85.


2013 F150 5.0, Delo XLE CK-4 10W-30, Baldwin B7449
2010 Camry 2.5, PP 10W-30, Mobil1 M1C-251A
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #4953006 12/15/18 10:30 PM
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pezzy669 Offline
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I ran E85 almost exclusively in my old '09 MB C300 as the $$ spread always had me ahead using E85 vs 93 octane, it was $1-2/tank so not too terribly much. On a time basis it probably was more valuable to use premium as the E85 had me at the pump 1.5x more often.

My C300 ran better on E85, anytime I would have to switch back to 93 it would feel like a cruise ship anchor was tossed out back during the adaption period and even after the adaption it still just did not have the ooopmh it had on E85.

Cold starts were interesting when temps dropped down to freezing and below, one of the first times I experienced multiple misfires on a modern engine on a 20 some odd degree old start. I would bog the engine down almost to stalling trying to do the uphill exit out of my gate that was a few hundred feet from my parked location as the E85 is that bad at burning in the cold.

My E350 doesnt allow for E85 so I am off the juice for now, even if I still had my C300 the spread has gone back to 93 being the value fuel. There is nothing wrong with E85 and if the $$$$ make sense run it.


2012 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 66k
2011 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen TDI - 46k
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #4953864 12/17/18 02:49 AM
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TiredTrucker Offline
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And that is my primary motivation.... whatever provides me the lowest cost per mile to use.

Filled up yesterday with E85 for $1.10 a gallon. My 2015 Chevy 2500 6.0 averages locally about 10 mpg on the stuff. On E0 or E10, it averages about 13 mpg, 14 on a good day. Regular E10 fuel at the same station is going for $1.90 a gallon where I got the E85 for $1.10 (E0 is 30-40 cents higher nearby). So just to break even on the 11 cent a mile fuel cost by using E85, my 3/4 ton pickup would have to average almost 17 mpg on E10 regular fuel or 20 mpg on E0. That is not going to happen in either case, so I fill with E85.

This is why I am totally sold on flex fuel vehicles. I can use a smorgasbord of fuel choices, selecting the one that is the best value and changing as seasonal fuel prices change. For the last 6 years I have used E0, E10, E15, E20, E30, E50, and E85. The last two years on E85 exclusively because of the price advantage.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: TiredTrucker] #4953865 12/17/18 03:00 AM
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4WD Offline
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Lots to do with where you live ... I'd have to drive a long, long way to find E85 ... but we do have one CNG outlet here that is mainly used by company vehicles ... but sold to the public ...

Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #4997980 02/01/19 08:59 AM
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stanlee Offline
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For fuel economy when premium gas prices was still over $3 E85 prices were under well under $2 around here (like $1.79) and it was definitely worth it even though my turbo BMWs fuel system was no where near adequate to run E85 beyond a 50/50 mix with gasoline and that was with in tank upgrade. NOW with gas here being under $2 there is no cost benefit.

However the benefit for E85 is tuning. Even with a 30% E85/gas mix I could run WAY more timing (like 5 deg more midrange up) and several more lbs of boost with no timing pull from the ECM. The car was a monster on E85 with E85 tune compared to gasoline. And I ran it that way almost exclusively for over 120K miles with E85 mix until the accessory belt snapped and got sucked into the crank case at 205K miles (completely unrelated to E85 or tuning).

If you have a "flex fuel" vehicle you aren't going to see power benefits without at least tune adjustments. You have to take advantage of the knock resistance which obviously OEMs could care less about. They just want to believe you have flexible fuel options. I literally only have ONE E85 station anywhere close to me...fortunately its 5 miles from my house. That meant if I found myself too far away from home or not being able to make it back to that pump I'd have to flash back to a gas tune (a one minute process but I'd still have to pull over somewhere).

Last edited by stanlee; 02/01/19 09:07 AM.
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #5086472 04/25/19 09:24 PM
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TiredTrucker Offline
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Any supposed power benefits of using E85 really hasn't crossed my mind or been of any concern. It is purely economics. The cost spreads are such that no other fuel, including using a diesel engine, offers me as low of a cost per mile that E85 does.

My 2017 Equinox 2.4L averages for all miles (city, rural, highway, gravel roads, etc) about 21 mpg using E85. Cost for E85 near me right now is $1.72. That equates to about 8.2 cents a mile fuel cost.

Regular is going for $2.52. If I used it, I would have to get 29-30 mpg average for all miles to get down to the same 8.2 cents a mile fuel cost. Not even a possibility.

And diesel near me is going for $3.14. So even one of the new diesel Equinox vehicles would have to average for all miles (city, highway, rural, gravel roads, etc) roughly 38 mpg to break even on 8.2 cents a mile fuel cost. Again, not going to happen.

And the numbers work the same for my 2015 Silverado 2500HD gasser, only the average mpg is lower across the board. It has been on E85 exclusively for 2 years.

Of course, prices vary regionally. Each person has to determine what offers the best value. But out of the last 15 years, E85 has been the hands down economic winner in my area for all but a couple years. It was especially economic when we hit the $4 gas several years ago. I could get E85 for $1.50 or more less than regular. This is why flex fuel capability is in the top 5 of features that I look for in any vehicle purchase.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #5086605 04/25/19 11:51 PM
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On my '12 Optima 2.0T, I run the LAP3USA ECU tune (Stage 1.5+) with lots of bolt on performance parts. I normally always run 93 octane (E10) Costco/Exxon gas (Top Tier only) and love the way my car runs.

Since LAP3USA now has a Stage 2 tune that requires running a E30 mix (or a water/meth injection system), I decided to "experiment".

On a nearly empty tank (~50 miles range left which means I had a ~2-3 gallons left), I put 10.725 gallons of Costco 93 octane (E10) gas and drove to a nearby station that sell E-85 or more specifically "FFV Gas" which is E51% min (and can be up to 83% Ethanol for summer months) and put 5.055 gallons in which it topped off the 18.5 gallon tank.

By my figures, that should be basically E30. I began my 20 mile drive home (~78°F ambient) and after a few miles noticed a bit more "pep in her step"! I didn't do the gradually change-over, I just went straight for the ~E30 mix. I'll report back what I find. I did hit peak boost at ~20.5psi on one WOT run to the barn. So far so good!


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (83K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (90K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #5098249 05/07/19 10:06 AM
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WhizkidTN Offline
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Update: So I've run a tank full now and to me I feel like the car has more pep and response running it. It seems the LAP3USA ECU Stage 1.5+ tune adapts well to it and I have NO issues to date. I just refilled with ~E25 mix and I think I might add a small amount of Lucas Fuel Treatment or MMO (like a maintenance dose) to help provide a bit more lubrication to the fuel pump and injectors. YMMV. Doing this mix also helps reduce the cost of my fill-ups just a bit with Costco 93 octane at $2.85/gal and Speedway E85/FFV at $2.05/gal (I did 12 gal of 93, 4 gal of FFV).

http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php

Last edited by WhizkidTN; 05/07/19 10:30 AM. Reason: more info...

His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (83K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (90K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: hatt] #5112824 05/22/19 08:17 PM
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WhizkidTN Offline
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2nd Update: I filled up today with 12.047 gallons of Costco 93 octane (Top Tier, E10) and 4.25 gallons of FFV (51%-83% Ethanol). Previous fill up was over 366 miles (22.35MPG which is about average with my driving). I did add some MMO (6oz) to the previous tank (and this one) to help lubricate the fuel pumps and injectors. My cost for the fuel was $2.83/gal of 93 octane and $1.99/gal of FFV. So far, the car feels like it is more responsive and eager to rev and no issues whatsoever have shown up. If I keep it under an E30 blend, I think I'll be just fine.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (83K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (90K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: E85 Experiment. [Re: TiredTrucker] #5117340 05/27/19 02:16 PM
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sdowney717 Offline
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Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Any supposed power benefits of using E85 really hasn't crossed my mind or been of any concern. It is purely economics. The cost spreads are such that no other fuel, including using a diesel engine, offers me as low of a cost per mile that E85 does.

My 2017 Equinox 2.4L averages for all miles (city, rural, highway, gravel roads, etc) about 21 mpg using E85. Cost for E85 near me right now is $1.72. That equates to about 8.2 cents a mile fuel cost.

Regular is going for $2.52. If I used it, I would have to get 29-30 mpg average for all miles to get down to the same 8.2 cents a mile fuel cost. Not even a possibility.

And diesel near me is going for $3.14. So even one of the new diesel Equinox vehicles would have to average for all miles (city, highway, rural, gravel roads, etc) roughly 38 mpg to break even on 8.2 cents a mile fuel cost. Again, not going to happen.

And the numbers work the same for my 2015 Silverado 2500HD gasser, only the average mpg is lower across the board. It has been on E85 exclusively for 2 years.

Of course, prices vary regionally. Each person has to determine what offers the best value. But out of the last 15 years, E85 has been the hands down economic winner in my area for all but a couple years. It was especially economic when we hit the $4 gas several years ago. I could get E85 for $1.50 or more less than regular. This is why flex fuel capability is in the top 5 of features that I look for in any vehicle purchase.

2.42 here in nnews va for regular. No one here sells e85. Diesel is 2.65 cheapest I have seen. For many reasons diesel is a bad choice for a car. Common rail design wears out those expensive pumps and injectors, plus DEF and regen eats up diesel fuel. Plus high labor and parts costs. Diesel only works for trucks hauling some weight around, as in towing trailers, RV, deliveries and in boats.

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