How early in engines life can I start to extend OCI

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Speaking specifically to break in period here. Just picked up a new vehicle with a 4cy that's easy on oil. Im considering running the factory fill for 5k and replacing with M1 AP and a Fram Ultra and running 15k then moving to a 20k oci with the M1AP and fram ultra. Does this seem like enough time to let the initial contaminants work out of the new engine?

Will this oil adequately protect a DOHC timing chain system in extended drains?

FWIW i will average about 20k per year...lots of highway. Currently run Synpower to 10k and it holds up beautifully.

Please don't start in about warranty...i could care less.
 
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I'd say waiting until all the break in metal was out, probably about 20K miles. Then confirm with a UOA before venturing to a 15k-20K OCI.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I'd say waiting until all the break in metal was out, probably about 20K miles.

I dont think it would take that long at all...

I dumped my factory-fill at maybe 1,600 miles and it looked like I was draining glitter.

Every change after that has been normal.
 
Originally Posted by CELICA_XX
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I'd say waiting until all the break in metal was out, probably about 20K miles.

I dont think it would take that long at all...

I dumped my factory-fill at maybe 1,600 miles and it looked like I was draining glitter.

Every change after that has been normal.


There are quite a few UOA's scattered about the site that say otherwise. I'd check with a UOA to be sure before diving in w/o knowing. He could check at 10K miles to see, but from what I've seen here, it takes longer than that.
 
I usually dump the oil early a few times within the first 6K miles and then run to the OLM on a quality oil, and then I'll send for a UOA after a few OLM runs to see what's possible. Usually by then the break-in metals are out and the wear metals that show up in the sample have stabilized.

Just use cheap oil that meets the specification during this time.

Although as a secondary, my neighbour is on his 2nd ram 1500. The first one and current one have the Hemi with MDS. He runs generic bulk Dino 5w20 in it and runs it to the end of the OLM from the factory fill. His last one made it no problem to high mileage before it was in an accident and his new one seems to be running just fine.

He will frequently drive us for dinner in it once a month.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
I usually dump the oil early a few times within the first 6K miles and then run to the OLM on a quality oil, and then I'll send for a UOA after a few OLM runs to see what's possible. Usually by then the break-in metals are out and the wear metals that show up in the sample have stabilized.

Just use cheap oil that meets the specification during this time.

Although as a secondary, my neighbour is on his 2nd ram 1500. The first one and current one have the Hemi with MDS. He runs generic bulk Dino 5w20 in it and runs it to the end of the OLM from the factory fill. His last one made it no problem to high mileage before it was in an accident and his new one seems to be running just fine.

He will frequently drive us for dinner in it once a month.


It's funny how much we all obsess over little things like oil and filter when most cars make it to 150k+ on whatever the dealer, independent shop, or quick lube puts in, or if people do change their own oil, whatever is on sale cheapest at the local parts store. Your neighbor with his Rams running bulk oil to the OLM is proof of that.

I don't think todays TGDI engines are going to hold up the same way to that treatment, though.
 
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My thoughts were...the oil is guaranteed for 20k miles. Both engines are known to be easy on lube...and I hate changing my oil. Id of course get a UOA to verify but i doubt it would be an issue
 
The advantage of oil changes is the removal of contaminates and micro particulates. Both of which don't show up on conventional UOA results in a direct way. Some UOA results give you a percentage of insolubles. Which is not the same as particle counting, not even close.

Particle counting is among the most important aspects of a lubricant's condition.

Fuel always contaminates the oil. On most vehicles, that fuel evaporates, leaving behind certain heavier components. It's not unusual for oil level to remain relatively unchanged in modern engines. However, some oil is consumed, and some fuel components are left in the oil leaving the owner thinking the engine consumes zero oil.

The length of ownership may make such things irrelevant. In which case, extend oil changes out to what ever you are comfortable with, after the first oil change.

However, if you are like me, and seem to find reasons to keep your vehicles or give them to family members, I suggest you pick a quality oil and change it regularly for the reasons stated above.
 
Particle counting...

Isnt it true that oil filters are designed to remove particles of a given size capable of damaging the engine or oiling system? While its true that a UOA doesn't count particles...it does measure metallic components of the oil that invariably come from engine part wear.

If we can judge the state of the engines and lubricants health...does it really matter?

Point being...changing oil before it becomes unserviceable does nothing to increase the lifespan or health of an engine...if you have proof otherwise...id love to see it!
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
... He runs generic bulk Dino 5w20 ...

is it syn blend? I didn't know 5x20 comes in dino!
 
Unfortunately scientific proof is unavailable for this. The best we can do is to look at what works.

And it's incorrect to think that the filter effectively removes all wear causing particulates. Certainly, the bearings survive with a high particulate load. Chains do not

Originally Posted by Doublehaul
Particle counting...

Isnt it true that oil filters are designed to remove particles of a given size capable of damaging the engine or oiling system? While its true that a UOA doesn't count particles...it does measure metallic components of the oil that invariably come from engine part wear.

If we can judge the state of the engines and lubricants health...does it really matter?

Point being...changing oil before it becomes unserviceable does nothing to increase the lifespan or health of an engine...if you have proof otherwise...id love to see it!
 
As Stevie said do 2-3 short oil changes first to get the wear metals out. Cut open the filter to see what it caught. My caravan had a bunch of particles on the first OCI just a few after that.
 
Extending OCI's whenever possible has shown to in fact be good for engines generally speaking.

Wear peaks when the oil is brand new and goes down from there as the AW additives start to activate and break down into more complex compounds which create stable strong tribofilms.

Ofcourse the key is changing the oil before it starts to reach its limit, when that is is affected by dozens of variables making that figure of ideal X Miles between OCIs hars to exactly calculate.

UOAs help a lot in this regard, generally as long as the TBN doesn't get too low ( some say 1/3 of the starting TBN ) , the viscosity stays "reasonable" meaning not excessive shearing or oxidative thickening, and you have a good air filter that isn't lettin lots of Si into the engine and you don't have too much fuel in the oil, that oil is still serviceable.
 
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