Lets have a detailed technical discussion about coolant

[SnowDrifter]

So, there are a pretty wide variety of coolant formulations out there. With different pros/cons of each, and a different availability due to the level of tech and research available at the time a vehicle was manufactured


I'm just going to start a list, I figure we can pull the hivemind together and get some good info


IAT - Silicates. Good protection for aluminum parts, but silicates hard on seals and other rubber components in the system. Shorter lifespan, risk of silicates crashing out of the system if neglected


OAT - Long life, but additives can make plastics brittle


HOAT - long life, some silicates - not sure if it's impactful for rubber bits


NOAT - ??

PHOAT - ??

 

[bullwinkle]

You forgot PHOAT-which is the best of them all! Seems to last forever, damages nothing (OK, exc. maybe some Toyota WP seals)!

 

[SnowDrifter]

Added!

You're talking about the 2.4 w/ the external water pump? Or something else? Wasn't that HOAT at the time?

 

[Number_35]

SnowDrifter, excellent topic. I'd like to see knowledgeable people list different brands under the different AF formulations, and I'd also like to see whether the vehicle can be upgraded to a different type of AF.

Examples:

I use plain old green ethylene glycol in the '97 Mazda. Could I use a newer and better formulation?

I use Mazda FL-22 in the '09 Mazda 5. Is there an equivalent generic?

I use NAPA's Asian formula in the '09 Kia Sedona. Is this a good choice?

It would be good if I could use one AF in all three vehicles I maintain.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I usually buy only three types of coolant, depending on what the vehicle recommends:

My asian vehicles (or ones that spec PHOAT) get Pentosin A3 (blue) or Valvoline Asian (comes in red or blue).
Vehicles which spec HOAT (low silicate like G05) get Pentosin E (which replaced Pentosin ++) or G05
Vehicles with plain old OAT get Pentofrost SF (silicate free)

Those three cover the whole gamut of any vehicle I might own. IMO, the above products are a good compromise between long life and compatibility. Since the chemistry may vary a little from OEM using one of the above Pentofrost products, I always flush the cooling system before switching. I've had good luck doing this and nary a coolant problem ever.

 

[Impatient]

I thought there was a POAT, someone clarify if it is the same as PHOAT?

I googled and they they might be the same. But then found NOAT (Peak Final Charge).

This piano doc was a good start, but, needs updating / expansion: http://www.pqiamerica.com/Antifreeze_Coolant_Timeline.pdf

Im curious because Ford went from gold to orange to latest yellow...all since 2011. They have a TSB for gas Transits (maybe others): TSB 18-2172k

Here is a Ford doc: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/Main/quickref/coolantsEN.pdf. It leaves out earlier Transits (pre-2018 non-Connect); I have a 2015.

The TSB says to drain / flush all, replace with Prestone Corguard. Local shops each have their own "universal" preference: Peak, Valvoline, Xerox (didn't find a Prestone fan), and thought the whole topic was hooey. "Just use our ‘universal' coolant" and you'll be fine. Trust us.

My other vehicle, a Subaru, also specifies "special" coolant, and that coolant changed a couple years later: from special green to special blue.

So we have ordinary old green, special green, orange, gold, yellow, blue, and who know how many I missed.

 

[wallyuwl]

Is PHOAT the same as P-OAT?

My 2018 F150 has Motorcraft orange (it is actually pink) OAT, but starting Jan 1, 2019 the 2019 models will get Motorcraft yellow (not the same as older MC gold) from the factory. The yellow is P-OAT. In very cold temps the orange can goo up in the heater core if the engine block heater is used and it is a big ($$$) repair job. I am getting mine switched over next week.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by Impatient
... My other vehicle, a Subaru, also specifies "special" coolant, and that coolant changed a couple years later: from special green to special blue.
So we have ordinary old green, special green, orange, gold, yellow, blue, and who know how many I missed.
I believe Subaru "special blue" is p-HOAT, chemically similar to Xerex Asian Formula and Toyota's pink "SLLC." (If that's inaccurate, someone please correct.)

 

[Chris142]

I don't know why we need so many options. We only stock 2 types where I work.

We still work on lots of cars with copper radiators and Long Life coolants don't work well at all in those.

We stock a regular low silicate coolant that has diesel SCA's already in it and whatever dexclone is on sale. You may also find a bottle of motorcraft gold occasionally.

Anything else I will order if I need it.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Way too much confusion at the dealer/manufacturer. I have 3 cars with blue coolant and all different. BMW blue, Honda Blue, Nissan blue. Mechanics don't seem to buy all the hype and just stock 1 or 2 types it seems.

 

[FCD]

I like VW's Si-OAT coolants ( G12++ / G13 )

VW's coolant timeline is interesting.

G11 - Blue, IAT coolant with Silicates and Borates
to
G12 - Plain OAT , introduced in 1996.
to
G12+ - Same as G12 , but mixable with G11 unlike G12.

then in 2005

G12++ ( 400-500ppm Silicate + OAT inhibitors )

And in 2012

G13 ( Same as G12++ and mixable, but replaces 10-20% of the Ethylene glycol with Glycerol, more eco-friendly )

They went from IAT, to a plain OAT in 1996, and in 2005 they essentially created the Si-OAT categery of coolant.

They contain no 2-eha and are compatible with all metals, Cast Iron, Aluminium, Copper, Brass, Magnesium, Lead Solder... and i have personally not seen or heard of any problems with these coolants in regard to rubber gaskets or hoses.

They use 400-500ppm of Silicate and they are very stable and have not seen yet Silicate dropout in them, and they last 5 years, like your regular plain jane OAT coolants.

And the Silicates are known to still be the best corrosion inhibitor at protecting aluminium, and it also provides extra protection lead solder and even copper, although the primary corrosion inhibitor for Copper are Azoles.

I'm running it in both my Fords and it even has stopped a small leak it used to have when i was running IAT coolant on my Escort!

 

[Snagglefoot]

Whatever phloats your boat, but I use this.

 

[Donald]

Most of us do not run a shop and just need to deal with coolant for the cars we own. I am not a fan of universal coolant so I will just get the exact coolant needed for each engine, and that may of may not mean OEM coolant. I have added the proper Motorcraft additive to rejuvenate the coolant in my Ford F250. None of my vehicles have over 100K miles yet. But the F250 is approaching 90K miles.

 

[CT8]

https://www.peakhd.com/wp-content/u...e%20%20Red_Spec%20Sheet_hires.pdf?x38462

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by wallyuwl
Is PHOAT the same as P-OAT?....
Yes. It's a hybrid (H) OAT because it contains phosphate as inhibitor. PHOAT, POAT same. Personal preference is to call it PHOAT.

 

[pbm]

A couple of years ago Ford switched from G-05 to Motorcraft Orange (essentially a Dexclone)...now it seems they are transitioning to Motorcraft Yellow.....does anybody know why they are getting away from Orange?....What type of coolant is the Motorcraft Yellow?

PS: If I had to choose one coolant for all my vehicles it would either be Peak Global or P-HOAT like the Pentosin green that I bought on 'Clearance' at AZ. If somebody tells me that Ford had issues with the Orange (Dexclone) I'll probably use PG or a P-HOAT in both of my Fords.

FordCapriDriver: Thanks for that informative timeline on VW coolants....

 

[BigD1]

Originally Posted by wallyuwl
Is PHOAT the same as P-OAT?

My 2018 F150 has Motorcraft orange (it is actually pink) OAT, but starting Jan 1, 2019 the 2019 models will get Motorcraft yellow (not the same as older MC gold) from the factory. The yellow is P-OAT. In very cold temps the orange can goo up in the heater core if the engine block heater is used and it is a big ($$$) repair job. I am getting mine switched over next week.


I suspect the new Ford yellow is Prestone with Cor-Guard. It does have phosphates in it.

There are white papers on the Prestone website which includes Ford coolant systems and others. They are testing Cor-Guard.

External Police Fleet Tests

Internal Ford Fusion Fleet Test

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by wallyuwl
Is PHOAT the same as P-OAT?.....
With the addition of information that the newest Motorcraft Yellow 'may be' Prestone CoreGuard, if it's called a P-OAT by FoMoCo and/or Motorcraft and it contains 2eha used in DexCool, then Ford Yellow is not the same as a true Asian PHOAT. The latter doesn't not 2eha as inhibitor. That said, while I've seen speculation connecting some data points, seen no definitive evidence of exactly what the new Motorcraft yellow is. If it is a CoreGuard, because of 2eha I'd call it a modified Dexclone.

To amend my previous statement, up till now PHOAT and POAT meant the same thing. A phosphated OAT with no 2eha. Perhaps Ford/Motorcraft is now putting themselves in separate category calling it a "P-OAT" by adding 2eha as inhibitor and phosphate. If that's the case, then it will not be a true Asian PHOAT as currently defined/ spec'd by the Asian vehicle manufacturers.

As an aside Prestone has also come out with two AFs, one labeled for Toyota (red/pink tint) and one labeled for Honda ( blue tint) . Both contain 2eha so neither matches the Toyota or Honda AF PHOAT 'type' chemistry currently spec'd. Based on that, I wouldn't recommend it for either application or any Asian vehicle.

 

[2heeldrive]

This coolant thing is just out of control. I have been using plain old Prestone and distilled water in my old BMW's and Toyota's. No problems so far and it's been in there for 15 years... (changed every five).

My 2017 Toyota has 10 year coolant. I won't need to worry about that for awhile... but after 10 years... Prestone!

 

[StevieC]

The good old green worked just fine in my Santa Fe on the original water pump (timing belt driven) and radiator for 300K miles so why they feel the need to have this many variations is beyond me, aside from the longer drain intervals making the coolant good until the end of most vehicles usable life under normal folks buying patterns.

That said I use whatever the dealer sells (bought somewhere less expensive) and I change it at 1/2 the interval doing a spill/fill of just the radiator. Not a fan of universal coolants.

And look at that. I don't use Amsoil coolant! Shocker!