Best 5w40 synthetic for 6.0 Powerstroke

[SavagePatch]

Originally Posted by jayg
Originally Posted by SavagePatch
Originally Posted by Cujet
You won't find a better oil than Mobil 1, 5W-40 TDT. It's about as robust as they come. It's also a great choice for other demanding applications, such as air cooled motorcycles, generators and turbocharged cars.


Not questioning you, as I'm running M1 TDT 5w40 in my Ram EcoDiesel, but where are you getting that it's "robust"?

All I ever hear is that it's the weaker little brother of Delvac 1 because it doesn't have many manufacturer approvals and that if you want a stout and robust oil you should choose Delvac 1.

I chose M1 TDT 5w40 because I got it for $10/g and it meets all of the requirements my EcoDiesel calls for.



Last I checked, M1 TDT does NOT have MS-10902/Cummins CES 20081, so it is not an oil that meets all of the specs unless that changed.

Delvac 1 ESP 5W40 has Cummins CES 20081 along with just about every other builder approval.


You're right, M1 TDT doesn't meet CES 20081 but it does meet one of the other options of meeting E7/E9 and it also meets CK-4. So I shouldn't have said that it meets all of the options.

And since CK-4 supersedes CJ-4 and is backwards compatible my logic is:

MS-10902 = CES 20081
CES 20081 = CJ-4
CJ-4 superseded by CK-4

So it also meets one of the other options.

I'd be curious to see a UOA of someone who has ran A3/B4.

It's kind of amazing that FCA is pretty much saying that you can run any oil as long as it is mid SAPS.

(Garak is WAY better at explaining this than I am)

 

[jayg]

^ I agree. It's likely fine in a Ecodiesel as are just about all 40 wt full syn diesel rated oil. Most of the bottom end problems these had appear to be because of high oil temps and the 5w30 specified for the US on their launch.

We're talking about oil sensitive heavy emissions restricted 3.0s though. For the OP's pre DPF 6.0, I'd run the cheapest RT6 on sale I could find in bulk.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by beanoil
None. There is no best 5w40 for a 6 leaker.
As a former 6.ohno owner, you have to really love the things, or you should just walk away Renee.
All 5w40's will shear to a 30 weight in the engine. Nature of the beast. Run any of the 10w30 offerings, and drive.
Start putting money away, you will need head gaskets, and studs if they are not done.
If they are, continue to put money away for the disposable oil cooler, up pipe replacement, coolant flush, and etc.,etc, and etc.
BUT, if you are committed, ARP studs and FelPro gaskets are a great combination. A fresh factory Ford cooler, delete the EGR, and have the FICM worked by ficmrepair with the Atlas 40 tune on it, and the truck becomes pretty reliable and fun to drive.
Blue spring kit in the fuel bowl, factory Motorcraft or Racor oil filter and oil about every 5k, fuel filters every 10k, and Stanadyne fuel add every tank. The turbo will eventually coke up and the variable vanes freeze, but you'll get those cleaned when the studs are put in.
As I said, you have to love the 6.0 or it gets frustrating very quickly.
I got tired, traded for 6.7, and actually enjoy driving and towing now.


^^^^This. 5w40 should not be considered for use in any of Ford's engines that use the HEUI injection system. The HPOP shears it down to 30 in a short time. So just put a good 10w30 in it.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted by BigShug681
Hello, fellow 6.0 owner here, a few things that I want to touch on. First high quality oil is essential with the 6.0, if you fail to use it you will be plugging the truck in at anything under 55 degrees. Second Warren Diesel specifically states that you should not run T6, something to do with it can foam in an HPO system and it will leave deposit build up on the spool valves of the injector causing stiction, and they build injectors so I think I'd follow what they say. Third, the 6.0 is an awesome engine and is actually becoming quite the contender as a powerhouse in the diesel scene. I can't remember if you said it but make sure you have at least a tool that can measure Ficm voltage, ICP and IPR values, a fuel pressure gauge is a must to ensure the truck has adequate supply to the injectors or you will be replacing them in a hurry, finally even if it's been studded you need to check the cooling system pressure at the degas, would be a shame to have a nice truck only to find out it has blown head gaskets. Now to answer your original question the attached picture is a very good choice for the 6.0, but I've also ran the 5w40 amsoil you mentioned


I've never owned one, but my neighbor did and I enjoyed the second-hand grief that many 6.0L owner's suffered; he had to replace the EGR, oil cooler, gaskets, etc due to the infamous plugged cooler issue. Also replaced the FICM due to low volts and the turbo due to coked up vanes. I've seen it first hand, even though I didn't own it (while my Dmax quietly slept at peace in my barn, albeit as the chassis and fluid lines rusted away .... but I digress ....)

First off, decent quality oil is essential in just about any engine; the alternative being that of using junk oil? You make a statement of the incredibly obvious. I do object, however, in that you really don't qualify and state what a "high quality oil" is to you, but I infer from your picture that is must be an expensive syn. Again - I turn to my neighbor's experience, as well as that of RR1 and others, who ran their 6.0L PSDs on conventional 10w-30 HDEO, and got stellar results. My neighbor never had to plug in his PSD, even when it got down to below zero F, and the Rotella 10w-30 dino oil did just fine. This has been covered ad-nauseum; the 6.0L engine prefers a 30 grade, and if you don't feed it one, it will shears your 40 grade down to a 30 grade for you.

Secondly, stiction isn't just reserved for T6 users; it's been reported as a concern from users of many different oil brands, and is often the first excuse tossed onto the table as justification to use Archoil and other additives. Don't go blaming T6 for "stiction" in the HEUI. And for the record, the "foaming" issue you refer to isn't the same as "stiction"; you're confusing two different topics, or at least your source is (not that I believe Warren Diesel is the end-all-be-all answer bucket for diesel knowledge).

 

[BigShug681]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by BigShug681
Hello, fellow 6.0 owner here, a few things that I want to touch on. First high quality oil is essential with the 6.0, if you fail to use it you will be plugging the truck in at anything under 55 degrees. Second Warren Diesel specifically states that you should not run T6, something to do with it can foam in an HPO system and it will leave deposit build up on the spool valves of the injector causing stiction, and they build injectors so I think I'd follow what they say. Third, the 6.0 is an awesome engine and is actually becoming quite the contender as a powerhouse in the diesel scene. I can't remember if you said it but make sure you have at least a tool that can measure Ficm voltage, ICP and IPR values, a fuel pressure gauge is a must to ensure the truck has adequate supply to the injectors or you will be replacing them in a hurry, finally even if it's been studded you need to check the cooling system pressure at the degas, would be a shame to have a nice truck only to find out it has blown head gaskets. Now to answer your original question the attached picture is a very good choice for the 6.0, but I've also ran the 5w40 amsoil you mentioned


I've never owned one, but my neighbor did and I enjoyed the second-hand grief that many 6.0L owner's suffered; he had to replace the EGR, oil cooler, gaskets, etc due to the infamous plugged cooler issue. Also replaced the FICM due to low volts and the turbo due to coked up vanes. I've seen it first hand, even though I didn't own it (while my Dmax quietly slept at peace in my barn, albeit as the chassis and fluid lines rusted away .... but I digress ....)

First off, decent quality oil is essential in just about any engine; the alternative being that of using junk oil? You make a statement of the incredibly obvious. I do object, however, in that you really don't qualify and state what a "high quality oil" is to you, but I infer from your picture that is must be an expensive syn. Again - I turn to my neighbor's experience, as well as that of RR1 and others, who ran their 6.0L PSDs on conventional 10w-30 HDEO, and got stellar results. My neighbor never had to plug in his PSD, even when it got down to below zero F, and the Rotella 10w-30 dino oil did just fine. This has been covered ad-nauseum; the 6.0L engine prefers a 30 grade, and if you don't feed it one, it will shears your 40 grade down to a 30 grade for you.

Secondly, stiction isn't just reserved for T6 users; it's been reported as a concern from users of many different oil brands, and is often the first excuse tossed onto the table as justification to use Archoil and other additives. Don't go blaming T6 for "stiction" in the HEUI. And for the record, the "foaming" issue you refer to isn't the same as "stiction"; you're confusing two different topics, or at least your source is (not that I believe Warren Diesel is the end-all-be-all answer bucket for diesel knowledge).

Yes I know foaming and stiction are different which is why I said can foam and also leave deposits on spool valves which can cause stiction. Warren diesel may not be the the end all be all but they have quite a few high hp 6.0 builds and they manufacture tons of after market injectors from stock applications to modified, so if they say stop running T6 they probably have good reason. In fact almost no reputable shops that work on 6.0 engines will recommend T6 it's either amsoil, Schaffer's, Delo or motorcraft.

 

[racin4ds]

Originally Posted by BigShug681
Hello, fellow 6.0 owner here, a few things that I want to touch on. First high quality oil is essential with the 6.0, if you fail to use it you will be plugging the truck in at anything under 55 degrees. Second Warren Diesel specifically states that you should not run T6, something to do with it can foam in an HPO system and it will leave deposit build up on the spool valves of the injector causing stiction, and they build injectors so I think I'd follow what they say. Third, the 6.0 is an awesome engine and is actually becoming quite the contender as a powerhouse in the diesel scene. I can't remember if you said it but make sure you have at least a tool that can measure Ficm voltage, ICP and IPR values, a fuel pressure gauge is a must to ensure the truck has adequate supply to the injectors or you will be replacing them in a hurry, finally even if it's been studded you need to check the cooling system pressure at the degas, would be a shame to have a nice truck only to find out it has blown head gaskets. Now to answer your original question the attached picture is a very good choice for the 6.0, but I've also ran the 5w40 amsoil you mentioned



Let me fix that for you... "warren REBUILDS" injectors.

If you are a large part of the PSD world you'll also find they have a very high failure rate. Their suggestion to not use Rotella is a BS blanket statement that shouldn't have ever been said. Sure there are better oils out there for your 6.O but Rotella will not hurt them one bit. High quality oils should always be used in anything you like or plan to keep, High quality oils being Rotella, Delo, Delvac, Citgo etc.

My personal truck is an 05 6.0 that literally had Rotella 15W40 put in it the day it left the dealer and service logs show it changed at every 5k miles with Rotella after that. I now Have 130,000 miles on it and have not had ONE SINGLE oil related issue and still on all original injectors. Truck still starts and runs like new rather it be a cold Virginia morning or a warm Florida one. It only gets used to tow/haul and work. Not a daily driver here.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted by BigShug681
...Warren diesel may not be the the end all be all but they have quite a few high hp 6.0 builds and they manufacture tons of after market injectors from stock applications to modified, so if they say stop running T6 they probably have good reason. In fact almost no reputable shops that work on 6.0 engines will recommend T6 it's either amsoil, Schaffer's, Delo or motorcraft.


I'm sure they have good reason to not recommend T6; it's called unfounded bias.
When they run good controlled tests, and put up real data for us to consume, then I'll be convinced. Until then, it's just more brand jibberish.
For every Warren advising against T6, there's another shop that swears by T6.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by SavagePatch
I chose M1 TDT 5w40 because I got it for $10/g and it meets all of the requirements my EcoDiesel calls for.

Yes, for an EcoDiesel, I wouldn't worry too much, given how things went and some of the manual wording we saw after they dropped the C3 idea. The subsequent manuals were pretty open about CJ-4, the Cummins spec, ACEA E7, E9. Yes, Delvac 1 would be the more suitable choice given formal approvals and the E7, E9 being there, but either oil is up for the task. Realistically, if one wanted to be totally picky and use only the actual FCA numbered spec, you'd be only buying Shell oil, at least off the top of my head. The manual verbiage states it all. An A3/B4 is suitable (despite assertions here that it's not; not that A3/B4 had similar ash levels to CI-4). Now, if that's acceptable, you're certainly not going to find A3/B4 with a CJ-4 or the FCA approval, or the Cummins approval, for that matter. The important thing to take from that is FCA was ditching the C3 spec.

Now, when it comes to the Ford 6.0, who's really at fault here? Ford has given T6 their formal approval; it's on their list. T6 and its immediate competitors are officially CK-4 licensed, have ACEA approvals, and builder approvals out the wazoo, including the Ford approval.

Look at any used truck listings. Why are low mileage 6.0 Fords going for 1/2 to 3/4 the price of a 7.3 that's five years older with double the miles? I'll give you a hint. It's not the oil.

 

[Wizz]

So much misinformation on the 6.0. Ford had all the revisions in place the last two years of production ('06/'07). They are very reliable if left BONE STOCK. Our '06 has over 165K miles with no issues, bone stock and well maintained.

The coolers clogged because there was casting flash in the block coolant passages that would eventually clog the coolers. A good flush early on and every 50k after prevented the issue.

Then there are the people who would immediately modify them (tunes etc)...then they end up chasing their tails in a never ending circle of repairs/mods.

Me and a friend have over 150K trouble free miles on each of our 6.0s by simply changing oil every 5k using $10/gallon Delvac 1300 15w-40, adding the Ford brand fuel lube (made/sold by StaBil) every tank to compensate for ULSD, and leaving them bone stock.

Ford still "recommends 15-40" for towing over the 10-30 last time I checked...so I exclusively use 15-40 at 5k intervals.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by Wizz
So much misinformation on the 6.0. Ford had all the revisions in place the last two years of production ('06/'07). They are very reliable if left BONE STOCK. Our '06 has over 165K miles with no issues, bone stock and well maintained.

The coolers clogged because there was casting flash in the block coolant passages that would eventually clog the coolers. A good flush early on and every 50k after prevented the issue.

Then there are the people who would immediately modify them (tunes etc)...then they end up chasing their tails in a never ending circle of repairs/mods.

Me and a friend have over 150K trouble free miles on each of our 6.0s by simply changing oil every 5k using $10/gallon Delvac 1300 15w-40, adding the Ford brand fuel lube (made/sold by StaBil) every tank to compensate for ULSD, and leaving them bone stock.

Ford still "recommends 15-40" for towing over the 10-30 last time I checked...so I exclusively use 15-40 at 5k intervals.
You must have been pretty lucky-we had head gaskets blowing (even without EGR cooler failure), had quite a few variable vane turbos fail, some more than once, big money injector failures, FICM failures, some HPOP issues, batteries only lasting 18 months, battery cables disintegrating (with intermittent failures that dealers had issues diagnosing), etc. Amazing how our last 7.3 PSD van almost made it to 700K trouble free miles, though!

 

[Nickdfresh]

My Powerstroke called for 10W-30, but I did use Quaker State Ultra 5W-40 bought on sale, but I'd go Rotella T6...

 

[bismic1]

Originally Posted by dnewton3


I've never owned one, but my neighbor did and I enjoyed the second-hand grief that many 6.0L owner's suffered; he had to replace the EGR, oil cooler, gaskets, etc due to the infamous plugged cooler issue. Also replaced the FICM due to low volts and the turbo due to coked up vanes. I've seen it first hand, even though I didn't own it (while my Dmax quietly slept at peace in my barn, albeit as the chassis and fluid lines rusted away .... but I digress ....)

First off, decent quality oil is essential in just about any engine; the alternative being that of using junk oil? You make a statement of the incredibly obvious. I do object, however, in that you really don't qualify and state what a "high quality oil" is to you, but I infer from your picture that is must be an expensive syn. Again - I turn to my neighbor's experience, as well as that of RR1 and others, who ran their 6.0L PSDs on conventional 10w-30 HDEO, and got stellar results. My neighbor never had to plug in his PSD, even when it got down to below zero F, and the Rotella 10w-30 dino oil did just fine. This has been covered ad-nauseum; the 6.0L engine prefers a 30 grade, and if you don't feed it one, it will shears your 40 grade down to a 30 grade for you.

Secondly, stiction isn't just reserved for T6 users; it's been reported as a concern from users of many different oil brands, and is often the first excuse tossed onto the table as justification to use Archoil and other additives. Don't go blaming T6 for "stiction" in the HEUI. And for the record, the "foaming" issue you refer to isn't the same as "stiction"; you're confusing two different topics, or at least your source is (not that I believe Warren Diesel is the end-all-be-all answer bucket for diesel knowledge).


Even some 10W30 oils shear quite a bit. The Rotella 10W30 will get close to a 20 wt after 7500 miles. And yes, this is from data posted by the 10W30 users and supporters.

My 5W40 Mobil TDT and Delvac 1 shears, but at 7500 mile OCI's it is still at a higher viscosity than the 10W30 oils start with. Rotella 5W40 shears more rapidly and so does Valvoline PBE. All that said, the better question is - What does it hurt to get to a 30 wt.? All these types of discussions are of little benefit to anyone IMO. A better questio might be - "How low can you go on viscosity?". I do know that leaks in the high pressure oil system can be more prevalent at a significantly lower viscosity (and I don't mean a 30 wt)! Saying the 6.0L prefers a 30 wt is certainly not accurate and perpetuates the "ad nauseum". It runs just fine on 40 wt oils. I can show you where I am still in the 40wt range at 5k miles - and again I have no issues. Seen it on other 6.0L trucks as well. That said, in cold weather, the 15W40 oils had a higher incident rate of stiction - Ford data (which contributed to their recommended lower temperature limit for 15W40).

210k miles on mine. Original injectors. Never had stiction. 5W40 oil for all but the initial 5k mile run on factory oil.

The new Pure Power injectors and the Ford remans all have a "relief cut" modification that pretty much eliminates stiction issues anyway .......... (assuming adequate maintenance practices).

 

[4WD]

The CJ ? (How do you rotate pics?)