Home Remodeling Question

[FirstNissan]

Hello Bitog,
my family is in the process of doing a home remodel and I have a real estate / cost question. We like in a Joplin, MO (small town, nice neighborhood). Our house is 2400 sq feet, 3 bedroom, value is mid $200s). My son's room is 25 x 12 ft (runs the span of the garage) and is on the 1st floor. My realtor had told me previously that the room is not a legal bedroom since the windows are too small for egress.

My question is, is there value in enlarging the window and paying for permits (and what would this cost approx?) as far as resale is concerned down the line by making it into the 4th bedroom?

Thanks

 

[maxdustington]

With permits probably not, on the sly maybe.

How old are the windows?

 

[spasm3]

Are the windows on the front of the house of the back? Is there a second story wall over the wall with the small windows?

 

[928]

You didn't mention what type of siding the ext has. Brick =more cost than wood. If it's wood , it's a one day job -+ drywall finish. be sure to get the sizes right as far as code + the height off the floor. Was the room permitted when it was made into a bedroom? Legal up to code & permitted up to code bdrm would add more to value than it costs to do it

Meanwhile, if the window is too small for egress, you are putting your son at risk. That alone should help you make up your mind.

 

[JHZR2]

Find out what true code is, not just what some realtor says.

Changing window size may result in changing trim, resulting in siding, and you get the point.

So how involved is the renovation?

 

[PimTac]

I am understanding correctly that your sons room is a fourth bedroom?

For that room to have any usage it sounds like the windows need to be enlarged. The previous comments of questions regarding the siding and such are valid.

 

[dishdude]

Around here a fourth bedroom adds an incredible amount of value, so if it's the same in your area and it can be done for a reasonable cost I'd say it's well worth it.

There are a bunch of 60's ranches with tiny bedroom windows that could never be used for egress. Look at this house, the bedrooms are above the garage. No way anyone can use those tiny windows that are really high up for egress.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by JHZR2
Find out what true code is, not just what some realtor says.

Changing window size may result in changing trim, resulting in siding, and you get the point.

So how involved is the renovation?


Right, there's usually lots of housing code that may apply. Fireblocking, minimum ceiling height, size of window relative to floor area, etc. Also nothing was mentioned of whether it was town water/sewer or septic. In our state, if you septic system is only set up for a 3 bedroom, you can't make a 4th without increasing the size of the septic system.

I also hope you have carbon monoxide alarms in the garage and in the bedroom.

 

[FirstNissan]

The window is on the front of the house. Its a wood frame house with vinyl siding. Any ideas on possible cost?

 

[Wolf359]

Just depends what people charge in the area. Just try getting some quotes, they will be all over the place from a few hundred to a few thousand, the spread will probably be 3-4x between the lowest and highest.

It's going to definitely cost you a few hundred per window. Around here, a basic window is in the $150-$200 range at Home Depot, they can run up to $500 or more for a fancy name brand one. Then there's the cost to reframe the window. The vinyl siding won't be too bad, but you'll probably have to buy some pieces as you can't use the old trim pieces. Style might not match the rest of the house if it's no longer available for sale, but you might be able to get away with the color. You could actually paint the vinyl siding so it matches the house. I could easily see it costing 1k and up per window, you'd really have to search hard to get it done for anywhere between $500-$1000 per window.

 

[DuckRyder]

Also exterior load bearing wall... is it going to require an engineer?

 

[Snagglefoot]

The solution can be found this way. If the widows are too small for egress, no one should be sleeping in there. I did a window expansion for the very same reason. It actually brought in so much extra natural sunlight it was well worth it.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by 928
You didn't mention what type of siding the ext has. Brick =more cost than wood. If it's wood , it's a one day job -+ drywall finish.
It won't be a one day job either way if you want it plastered and trimmed.

Originally Posted by DuckRyder
Also exterior load bearing wall... is it going to require an engineer?
I think it will be ok, if it's brick just toss some lentils in. It's going to have to be reframed either way.

 

[dbias]

Minimum width of opening: 20 in. Minimum height of opening: 24 in. Minimum net clear opening: 5.7 sq. ft. (5.0 sq. ft. for ground floor). Maximum sill height above floor: 44 in.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by FirstNissan
Hello Bitog,
my family is in the process of doing a home remodel and I have a real estate / cost question. We like in a Joplin, MO (small town, nice neighborhood). Our house is 2400 sq feet, 3 bedroom, value is mid $200s). My son's room is 25 x 12 ft (runs the span of the garage) and is on the 1st floor. My realtor had told me previously that the room is not a legal bedroom since the windows are too small for egress.

My question is, is there value in enlarging the window and paying for permits (and what would this cost approx?) as far as resale is concerned down the line by making it into the 4th bedroom?

Thanks


Depends.

Windows should meet code. - Yes, because you're realtor is correct. The appraiser probably won't count it as a bedroom, You might also open yourself to liability depending on how the sales contract is worded and the laws within your state.
Cost of permits - That's a local/regional thing. It's like asking about the price of gas. Permitting does two things: It provide buyers with some piece of mind that the project is at least code minimum, Informs the city/county of your expanded living space so they can then increase your property taxes.

 

[Donald]

Don't just think of resale value. Think of your son having a second way out in case of a fire.

 

[PimTac]

Depending on the local codes, the room may not qualify as a bedroom due to the window situation.

In a old house I had one of the bedrooms had no closet and I had to build one in to qualify it.

 

[csandste]

Did Joplin hire a bunch of building inspectors to handle post tornado construction? Did they become permanent positions? If so, you might have some people who are waiting around looking to make your life miserable on something like this. Building code officials can vary all over the place when it comes to reasonableness.

 

[maxdustington]

I can tell most of you guys have never done this type of work professionally, getting a permit to upsize windows in this situation would be a joke to any vet carpenter.

When you do this type of work professionally for a while, a lot of the stuff you work on has been DIYed without permits. As long as it is done to code you will not be liable for anything. The whole "If you do work without permits you will get sued somehow" is nonsense. The smaller the job, the less chance of permits because it's just not worth it.

I would avoid a permit at all costs and spend the money on higher quality windows. I've wrenched on houses extensively, don't listen to BITOG armchair carpenters. Installing windows is easy and does not require permits or an engineer (lol).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
I can tell most of you guys have never done this type of work professionally, getting a permit to upsize windows in this situation would be a joke to any vet carpenter.

When you do this type of work professionally for a while, a lot of the stuff you work on has been DIYed without permits. As long as it is done to code you will not be liable for anything. The whole "If you do work without permits you will get sued somehow" is nonsense. The smaller the job, the less chance of permits because it's just not worth it.

I would avoid a permit at all costs and spend the money on higher quality windows. I've wrenched on houses extensively, don't listen to BITOG armchair carpenters. Installing windows is easy and does not require permits or an engineer (lol).



Actually it's not nonsense, some states have disclosure/liability laws so it can be a problem with the buyer, and/or the lender who's providing the financing. We're not talking about a permit for the windows, but a permit to finish the space which includes code-min windows. The OP is looking to add value to his property by adding an additional bedroom. Of course the OP could do it without permits and just sell the space as a semi-finished attic.


I've seen plenty of deals fall through because of un-permitted garage conversions or summer kitchen** turned into a basement apartment.

** Summer kitchen is common in the NE US where homes were not originally built with AC and in the summer the occupants would cook in the basement because it wouldn't heat up the house and it was cooler down there. However, today in some cases the owners will convert the basement into an apartment by adding bathroom and bedroom. Problem is that the windows in these basements are sized too small for people to get out of OR there are NO WINDOWS in the bedroom. Also the wiring in these basements is typically not up to code either so there's a potential for a serious fire hazard.