Can top of the line HDEO go more than 5k in severe service?

[leoblack9]

My weekly driving habits are these:
6 days a week in heavy stop and go traffic, lots of idling time, 18 miles both ways, 2~2.5hours travel time. 2 cold starts (morning and afternoon within leaving the office). Engine warms up to normal temperature within 15 minutes of driving.
1 day on a freeway (75 miles both ways), 4 hours total travel time

Temp hovers around 90~100F at day, 78-82F at night.

Is this considered Severe service?

I am a very busy person as I run multiple businesses, so I prefer changing oil at least once a year.

So with a stout oil with let's say a Mobil Delvac1 5w40 would it be possible to forego the manufacturer's call for a really short OCI (3000miles / 6 months) and go with the full 6000 miles / 1 year in the manual? Could I even go farther than 6k with the Delvac under severe service?

Btw, I drive a Toyota 2.5 D4D

 

[pitzel]

I wouldn't consider that to be 'severe service'.

I've run Esso XD-3 0W-30 full synthetic HDEO for over an over 50k mile/10 year interval.


I doubt that doing 6000 miles/1 year would be a problem if the engine is otherwise mechanically sound. You probably could go further, but you'd want to verify such with some sort of oil analysis or some other method.

 

[CharBaby]

I am a bit confused with some of the time & miles but, it is what it is!

With the warm Philippine temperatures, there is little warm up time for the engine which is a good thing.
I am of the belief that 5000 miles is the new 3000 miles and any good conventional oil can do 5000 mile OCI.
Maybe use a synthetic oil?

I agree that ~6000 miles/1 year is fine however I do consider the type of driving style that the OP mention is considered severe with a caveat. There is a 150 mile round trip to help offset the severity of the city driving.

It takes the OP 1+ hrs to travel 18 miles, 2X/day, 6 days/wk. How many weeks/year? IDK but, that'd be over 11K miles/yr. Yeah, that's kinda severe IMO. Maybe two OCI/year???

 

[demarpaint]

If you want to be sure, have a UOA done, and have them check the TBN. That should eliminate any guess work.

 

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by pitzel
I wouldn't consider that to be 'severe service'.
I've run Esso XD-3 0W-30 full synthetic HDEO for over an over 50k mile/10 year interval.
I doubt that doing 6000 miles/1 year would be a problem if the engine is otherwise mechanically sound. You probably could go further, but you'd want to verify such with some sort of oil analysis or some other method.

Trying to find a cheap UOA service locally, found one by Monark but they quoted a complete test... $320... not kidding.

Engine is in exellent condition. No oil consumption. A little black smoke at coasting speeds (EGR valve perhaps.. these Toyotas love carbon buildup in the intake manifold).

So is an expensive HDEO oil overkill then? I am literally on the Delvac now, and at 7 months I'm already at 6000miles / 10,000km mark. If I extend and complete the 1 whole year then I'll probably reach 10k miles or 15k km--which is why I asked if the Delvac could reach those kilometers... if UOAs were cheap around here.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
If you want to be sure, have a UOA done, and have them check the TBN. That should eliminate any guess work.

To be honest that's the only real clear cut solution to my question. Currently I found one that does oil analysis and they quoted me $320.. i'll keep looking for cheaper services but in the meantime I'll draw from those who've used Delvac or oil inteded for extended drains + severe service to give me ideas how it holds up.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
I am a bit confused with some of the time & miles but, it is what it is!
With the warm Philippine temperatures, there is little warm up time for the engine which is a good thing.
I am of the belief that 5000 miles is the new 3000 miles and any good conventional oil can do 5000 mile OCI.
Maybe use a synthetic oil?
I agree that ~6000 miles/1 year is fine however I do consider the type of driving style that the OP mention is considered severe with a caveat. There is a 150 mile round trip to help offset the severity of the city driving.
It takes the OP 1+ hrs to travel 18 miles, 2X/day, 6 days/wk. How many weeks/year? IDK but, that'd be over 11K miles/yr. Yeah, that's kinda severe IMO. Maybe two OCI/year???
Sorry I converted everything to miles.. we also use kilometers from where I'm from. Those driving conditions are all year round.. except holidays where we bring the diesel for a long roadtrip (150km~400km one way depending where we are going).

on 2x OCIs at 6k miles each.. I'd follow that if I have invested in a semi-synth.. but what if you're on a Delvac1 or a M1 extended performance oil meant for long drains... how do they hold up when used in consecutive severe driving conditions? (other than UOAs.. I'm still looking for cheaper services here).
Quote
5000 miles being the new 3000 miles..-
That's what I'm actually thinking also, these oils are far advanced from the time when the engineers devised the oil change intervals. In my manual I get recommended a CF grade oil for my diesel... So how would a CK-4 oil stand up to that? Sadly the only answer to that is.. you guessed it - a UOA.

 

[BigShug681]

Originally Posted by leoblack9
Originally Posted by pitzel
I wouldn't consider that to be 'severe service'.
I've run Esso XD-3 0W-30 full synthetic HDEO for over an over 50k mile/10 year interval.
I doubt that doing 6000 miles/1 year would be a problem if the engine is otherwise mechanically sound. You probably could go further, but you'd want to verify such with some sort of oil analysis or some other method.

Trying to find a cheap UOA service locally, found one by Monark but they quoted a complete test... $320... not kidding.

Engine is in exellent condition. No oil consumption. A little black smoke at coasting speeds (EGR valve perhaps.. these Toyotas love carbon buildup in the intake manifold).

So is an expensive HDEO oil overkill then? I am literally on the Delvac now, and at 7 months I'm already at 6000miles / 10,000km mark. If I extend and complete the 1 whole year then I'll probably reach 10k miles or 15k km--which is why I asked if the Delvac could reach those kilometers... if UOAs were cheap around here.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
If you want to be sure, have a UOA done, and have them check the TBN. That should eliminate any guess work.

To be honest that's the only real clear cut solution to my question. Currently I found one that does oil analysis and they quoted me $320.. i'll keep looking for cheaper services but in the meantime I'll draw from those who've used Delvac or oil inteded for extended drains + severe service to give me ideas how it holds up.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
I am a bit confused with some of the time & miles but, it is what it is!
With the warm Philippine temperatures, there is little warm up time for the engine which is a good thing.
I am of the belief that 5000 miles is the new 3000 miles and any good conventional oil can do 5000 mile OCI.
Maybe use a synthetic oil?
I agree that ~6000 miles/1 year is fine however I do consider the type of driving style that the OP mention is considered severe with a caveat. There is a 150 mile round trip to help offset the severity of the city driving.
It takes the OP 1+ hrs to travel 18 miles, 2X/day, 6 days/wk. How many weeks/year? IDK but, that'd be over 11K miles/yr. Yeah, that's kinda severe IMO. Maybe two OCI/year???
Sorry I converted everything to miles.. we also use kilometers from where I'm from. Those driving conditions are all year round.. except holidays where we bring the diesel for a long roadtrip (150km~400km one way depending where we are going).

on 2x OCIs at 6k miles each.. I'd follow that if I have invested in a semi-synth.. but what if you're on a Delvac1 or a M1 extended performance oil meant for long drains... how do they hold up when used in consecutive severe driving conditions? (other than UOAs.. I'm still looking for cheaper services here).
Quote
5000 miles being the new 3000 miles..-
That's what I'm actually thinking also, these oils are far advanced from the time when the engineers devised the oil change intervals. In my manual I get recommended a CF grade oil for my diesel... So how would a CK-4 oil stand up to that? Sadly the only answer to that is.. you guessed it - a UOA.

CK-4 is considered backwards compatible with that being said I'm not 100% sold on it meeting the needs of older diesels as well, I do believe it's ok to run though and in your case finding a CF grade would probably be near impossible.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Char Baby
I agree that ~6000 miles/1 year is fine however I do consider the type of driving style that the OP mention is considered severe with a caveat. There is a 150 mile round trip to help offset the severity of the city driving.
I agree, if the oil gets completely heated each trip then how severe is the service on the engine? Not as easy as a straight highway rip, but it's the suspension and brakes that get pounded from city use. I'm not sure I would run past 10km without a UOA but OTA trucks run such long OCIs, and I'll bet a quality HDEO can do it.

 

[andyd]

Why are you using a 5wxx oil in the Philippines? Wouldn't a 15w40 be better. No clue about Toyota diesels so please school me.

 

[Linctex]

I think any modern, conventional 15W-40 changed 1x per year will do just fine for you.

 

[SureshR]

Originally Posted by Linctex
I think any modern, conventional 15W-40 changed 1x per year will do just fine for you.


5w40 is just fine for India where I run amsoil ck4 in a 2.2 diesel (the Mahindra Scorpio's mhawk engine)

Smooth running and no black smoke at 10k kilometers though 50% of that was highway trips and the rest very short under 2 mile / 4 kilometer trips in crawling rush hour city traffic.

Change oil a bit before your engine emits black smoke I would say. Does it still emit it soon after an oil change or does this start up after extended use?

 

[BigShug681]

Maybe I'm wrong but oil should have nothing to do with a diesel emitting black smoke

 

[SureshR]

Oil of a lighter viscosity than specced - or for overlong OCI, oil that's sheared to a lighter viscosity over longer use - can seep into the combustion chamber. Poof, magic black smoke. There's other more obvious causes of course.

 

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by Char Baby
I agree that ~6000 miles/1 year is fine however I do consider the type of driving style that the OP mention is considered severe with a caveat. There is a 150 mile round trip to help offset the severity of the city driving.
I agree, if the oil gets completely heated each trip then how severe is the service on the engine? Not as easy as a straight highway rip, but it's the suspension and brakes that get pounded from city use. I'm not sure I would run past 10km without a UOA but OTA trucks run such long OCIs, and I'll bet a quality HDEO can do it.
I'm thinking that the high temps makes the service severe... Every drive the engine does get to operating temperature regardless of being stuck in traffic.

I would get a UOA in a heartbeat when I find someone offering an affordable service.
Originally Posted by andyd
Why are you using a 5wxx oil in the Philippines? Wouldn't a 15w40 be better. No clue about Toyota diesels so please school me.
The manual specifically calls for a 5w30 CF grade oil. The Japanese seem to think that ASEAN region cars should withstand the high amounts of sulfur in the fuel here.

Toyota's over here... their engines are undertuned.. emphasizing reliability. My cars engine, 2KD-FTV was detuned to 2500cc, whilst the original 1KD-FTV has 3000cc of displacement. All of these engines are prone to carbon / soot buildup in the intake manifold and EGR.. which unfortunately is an inevitable occurrence as it ages regardless of which oil I put in it (a mechanic told me). The only solution is to pull out the EGR and intake manifold and clean the carbon.
Originally Posted by Linctex
I think any modern, conventional 15W-40 changed 1x per year will do just fine for you.
I think you mean using a top of the line 15w40 like a delo 400 or a delvac mx?
Everyone here is still following the "3k mile OCI" with dino oil.. ... I reach that mileage in 3-4 months... too often for me.

I guess I'm just afraid of extending more than 3k miles / 5k km...

 

[BigShug681]

Originally Posted by SureshR
Oil of a lighter viscosity than specced - or for overlong OCI, oil that's sheared to a lighter viscosity over longer use - can seep into the combustion chamber. Poof, magic black smoke. There's other more obvious causes of course.

Not saying you're wrong but I always thought burning oil came out as a white smoke with a blue hue to it. I've never seen a vehicle burning oil and the exhaust was black smoke

 

[leoblack9]

I'm sure its dark with a blue hue. Not black smoke as it signifies the fuel mixture is rich.

 

[SureshR]

Yup. Darker blue-ish tinted smoke.

 

[dnewton3]

Many, many UOAs have been done on vehicles that see "severe" service, and it rarely if ever actually shows any significant difference in wear data, despite all the heretical gibberish from the OEMs and lube makers.

Unless there's a reason to suspect contamination intrusion (air, fuel or coolant leak), then you'll be fine going 5k miles on HDEO no problem.

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted by Linctex
I think any modern, conventional 15W-40 changed 1x per year will do just fine for you.



Agreed. I would also echo that I don't consider that usage sever service either.

 

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Many, many UOAs have been done on vehicles that see "severe" service, and it rarely if ever actually shows any significant difference in wear data, despite all the heretical gibberish from the OEMs and lube makers.

Unless there's a reason to suspect contamination intrusion (air, fuel or coolant leak), then you'll be fine going 5k miles on HDEO no problem.
Hi Dnewton, thanks for your input. I am working to find a cheap UOA service around here, but in the meantime I'm asking around from those who have done something similar to my conditions.

The goalposts may have moved from the time I have asked the original post, what I 'm thinking rihgt now if I could go with a whole year with a "severe" service with a stout HDEO like Delvac1 or any oils meant for extended drains.

My engine is in good condition, no oil consumption, no coolant leaks. Everything seems to be in good working order.


Originally Posted by jayg
Originally Posted by Linctex
I think any modern, conventional 15W-40 changed 1x per year will do just fine for you.


Agreed. I would also echo that I don't consider that usage sever service either.
Hi Jayg, thanks for your input. Do you mean conventional = dino oil? Or should I go with a top of the line synthetic like a group IV or V based oil?

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted by leoblack9
... The goalposts may have moved from the time I have asked the original post, what I 'm thinking rihgt now if I could go with a whole year with a "severe" service with a stout HDEO like Delvac1 or any oils meant for extended drains.

My engine is in good condition, no oil consumption, no coolant leaks. Everything seems to be in good working order.


Again - most of the time, service that technically falls into "severe" service never results in an escalation of wear trends.

Honestly just about any good quality HDEO will suffice; you don't need anything special. Most all engines will have a wear-rate that trends downward out to 15k miles, no matter what you put in the crankcase (presuming it's a properly spec'd lube for the application).

You are overthinking this and that's typical; most people are afraid to do things that marketing tells them is heretical. But the reality is that "severe" really isn't, and most all lubes can be safely used for much longer than most folks think.