2017 Ford Expy 3.5L EB 5500mi Edge 0w40 HIGH IRON

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Originally Posted by dblshock
the Edge 0/40 is a real good oil and a nice upgrade...what we have here looks like the old stuff but that's not to blame for the high FE either.

Old stuff? All the Castrol 0w40 UOA/VOAs I've seen in the past year or two have had high Ca, low Mg. Where are you getting your information? VOA or UOA somewhere you can cite for us?

Castrol 0w40 is one of the most tested, highest performing oil on the market today. It's KV100 and HTHS are really not too high for something Ford says needs 5w20. Puzzling results.
Viscosity looked OK for all the oils (0w40,5w20,FF), even though some fuel dilution knocked the 0w40 down to a 0w30 there, it was still safely above Ford's spec.

A lot of engines that show fuel dilution like this don't have high iron, so thats not whats doing this.
 
Switching brands can often lead to spikes in wear. The newer chemistry sometimes needs to set in. I'm not saying that is the situation here, but it can be a variable to look out for.
 
Originally Posted by parshisa
I vote for lab error


Doubtful. There was the flash in the pan guy who sent 10 samples of oil to 3 different labs (Polaris, Blackstone, and CAT I think), and all 10 of the samples had something like 1.5% variance. I'm sure that's likely within the margin of error of the testing equipment, especially when you're talking about PPM...
 
I'm no expert, but TBN of 3.0 and viscosity of only 9.96 for a 0w40 A3B4 with only 5500 miles is NOT impressive. I wouldn't be happy.
 
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Originally Posted by dblshock
right, if not fishy it's old stock Edge 0/40, newer formulation caters to the balanced Ca/Mg for LSPI in TGDI engines.



Again, I'm no expert, but I don't think Edge 0w40 is trying to be SN+ for low LSPI. It is a A3B4 oil, or am I missing something? Not that I believe the iron & copper numbers are due to running A3B4 where it is not spec'd.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
I don't put a lot of stock in UOA results (although I used to) . They truly do not indicate wear rate, unfortunately, most people think they do. UOA results can sometimes (but not always) indicate a component problem or failure.

Let's look at this another way, what about a 0W-40 oil would create an iron wear rate that is double a 5W-20? Yet not affect aluminum wear rates? Not very likely. Engine disassembly would likely show no unusual wear. And, engine lifespan is likely to be unaffected.

Take a look at the missing cam lobe. Imagine my surprise at the perfect UOA that showed low iron.

[Linked Image]





^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly right here...

These are not useful for determining wear...

Coolant leaks, unfiltered air intrusion thus high silicon, oil out of grade, oil degradation by oxidation, or fuel being dumped into oil causing low viscosity is the best function of this type of analysis.
 
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I run my F150EB exclusively on that oil. I have a few UOA. I did a lot of very heavy towing with this truck.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...3-5eb-10k-mikes-castrol-0w40#Post4881754


Thanks. I'm lurking in 3.5EB UOA's because I have a relatively young one now (
I like Euro Castrol, use the 0w30 version (while I can still find it) in my other Turbo (Subaru 2.5 with 127k mi), but have become more concerned with the whole LSPI thing since I bought the Ford. Maybe I should be more concerned with silicon, fuel, FE and CU in the Ford. The Subie has single digit readings on all those, so maybe Fords just slough off more metals???
 
Originally Posted by dblshock
right, if not fishy it's old stock Edge 0/40, newer formulation caters to the balanced Ca/Mg for LSPI in TGDI engines.


Let's see ... one way can chunk a rod ... another can be part of a debate over PPM iron ... let me think
 
Good point, But maybe someone can point me to an article/thread/post better explaining how LSPI is affected by using last year's state-of-the-art oil vs this year's. Unfortunately, I stocked up on PPUP for the 3.5EB.

I AM concerned with anything that shortens the life of my new baby (by far the most expensive vehicle I have ever bought), whether it be increased wear, or sudden failure.

Forgive me, I'm relatively new here. Has LSPI been reported as a problem in 3.5EB's? I'm mostly hearing about fuel dilution in EB's (some swear it's terrible, others swear it is meaningless at the typical levels). I assume diluted oil could result in higher wear numbers. My wear metal concern comes from interpreting my own UOA's (different motor, different OCI, different everything) showing single-digit wear metals, vs what I am "interpreting" as normal for the 3.5EB. I mean, if my next UOA on the Subaru 2.5T (with 127k mi) had double-digit copper, iron, silicon etc, you bet I'd be worried. When I get my 1st UOA back on the EB, I guess I'm supposed to not worry about double-digit numbers???
 
OP's report shows viscosity cSt @ 212 F (100 C) of 9.9.
VOAs for this oil show it from 13.0-13.7.

So viscosity dropped at least 3.0, and maybe more. This much of a drop is typically indicative of at least 7.5% fuel dilution (absent any shearing). Also - compare OP's viscosity to BeerCan's viscosity of that oil in his link above. My guess is the high iron in the OP's oil is due to fuel dilution well over 5% - from what I've seen the iron number can jump in some engines when fuel gets over 5% in the 5-10% or more range.

Also guessing the OP's lab did not use GC to measure fuel dilution. But maybe I'm wrong.
 
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Originally Posted by Impatient
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I run my F150EB exclusively on that oil. I have a few UOA. I did a lot of very heavy towing with this truck.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...3-5eb-10k-mikes-castrol-0w40#Post4881754


Thanks. I'm lurking in 3.5EB UOA's because I have a relatively young one now (
I like Euro Castrol, use the 0w30 version (while I can still find it) in my other Turbo (Subaru 2.5 with 127k mi), but have become more concerned with the whole LSPI thing since I bought the Ford. Maybe I should be more concerned with silicon, fuel, FE and CU in the Ford. The Subie has single digit readings on all those, so maybe Fords just slough off more metals???


Considering how hard I worked this engine I think my UOA are pretty good. I towed many a mile at 200lbs over gross vehicle weight, at highway speeds in hot conditions. I worked it hard and it performed very well IMO. I pull my same rig with a super duty now because the braking power on the f150 was just not good enough for the weight I pulled, otherwise I would still be flogging it.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by BeerCan
Originally Posted by Impatient
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I run my F150EB exclusively on that oil. I have a few UOA. I did a lot of very heavy towing with this truck.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...3-5eb-10k-mikes-castrol-0w40#Post4881754


Thanks. I'm lurking in 3.5EB UOA's because I have a relatively young one now (
I like Euro Castrol, use the 0w30 version (while I can still find it) in my other Turbo (Subaru 2.5 with 127k mi), but have become more concerned with the whole LSPI thing since I bought the Ford. Maybe I should be more concerned with silicon, fuel, FE and CU in the Ford. The Subie has single digit readings on all those, so maybe Fords just slough off more metals???


Considering how hard I worked this engine I think my UOA are pretty good. I towed many a mile at 200lbs over gross vehicle weight, at highway speeds in hot conditions. I worked it hard and it performed very well IMO. I pull my same rig with a super duty now because the braking power on the f150 was just not good enough for the weight I pulled, otherwise I would still be flogging it.
smile.gif



I wasn't trying to diss your rig or your results, I am just trying to establish what a good baseline should be for an EB. Given that you provided the most UOA's, and they are pretty consistent, I would say that is valuable info. It may just be a fact of life that EBs have higher metals and more fuel dilution. Now I don't tow, so that is a variable, but my EB is in a high-roof Transit pushing a lot of air aside on the highway (most of its miles), so that might also be a variable compared to a more aerodynamic F150 (not towing) or Explorer. I'm also concerned PPUP 5w30 or PPPP might not be the best for it; but I probably won't switch to 0w40 until after warranty, though I've considered it.

Again, any info or links comparing a good non-SN+ oil to a SN+ oil in an engine like ours would also be appreciated. Is the 3.5EB even a likely candidate for LSPI, or whatever else SN+ might "cure?"
 
Originally Posted by Impatient
Originally Posted by BeerCan
Originally Posted by Impatient
Originally Posted by BeerCan
I run my F150EB exclusively on that oil. I have a few UOA. I did a lot of very heavy towing with this truck.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...3-5eb-10k-mikes-castrol-0w40#Post4881754


Thanks. I'm lurking in 3.5EB UOA's because I have a relatively young one now (
I like Euro Castrol, use the 0w30 version (while I can still find it) in my other Turbo (Subaru 2.5 with 127k mi), but have become more concerned with the whole LSPI thing since I bought the Ford. Maybe I should be more concerned with silicon, fuel, FE and CU in the Ford. The Subie has single digit readings on all those, so maybe Fords just slough off more metals???


Considering how hard I worked this engine I think my UOA are pretty good. I towed many a mile at 200lbs over gross vehicle weight, at highway speeds in hot conditions. I worked it hard and it performed very well IMO. I pull my same rig with a super duty now because the braking power on the f150 was just not good enough for the weight I pulled, otherwise I would still be flogging it.
smile.gif



I wasn't trying to diss your rig or your results, I am just trying to establish what a good baseline should be for an EB. Given that you provided the most UOA's, and they are pretty consistent, I would say that is valuable info. It may just be a fact of life that EBs have higher metals and more fuel dilution. Now I don't tow, so that is a variable, but my EB is in a high-roof Transit pushing a lot of air aside on the highway (most of its miles), so that might also be a variable compared to a more aerodynamic F150 (not towing) or Explorer. I'm also concerned PPUP 5w30 or PPPP might not be the best for it; but I probably won't switch to 0w40 until after warranty, though I've considered it.

Again, any info or links comparing a good non-SN+ oil to a SN+ oil in an engine like ours would also be appreciated. Is the 3.5EB even a likely candidate for LSPI, or whatever else SN+ might "cure?"

No worries, I did not take it as a diss at all. I was just trying to give context. I know because I worked that truck harder than most people my results might be atypical.

Personally I don't think lspi is an issue in this motor. At least I don't think I ever experienced it.

As far as dilution, I think most gen1 3.5eb will show dilution. I've had 2 an they both routinely showed between 2 an 5 percent, sometimes more. I think it's the nature of the beast.
 
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Originally Posted by claluja
OP's report shows viscosity cSt @ 212 F (100 C) of 9.9.
VOAs for this oil show it from 13.0-13.7.

So viscosity dropped at least 3.0, and maybe more. This much of a drop is typically indicative of at least 7.5% fuel dilution (absent any shearing). Also - compare OP's viscosity to BeerCan's viscosity of that oil in his link above. My guess is the high iron in the OP's oil is due to fuel dilution well over 5% - from what I've seen the iron number can jump in some engines when fuel gets over 5% in the 5-10% or more range.

Also guessing the OP's lab did not use GC to measure fuel dilution. But maybe I'm wrong.



There is shearing it's going to shear with this large of a viscosity spread. I would not be concerned with PPM in a UOA.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251

There is shearing it's going to shear with this large of a viscosity spread. I would not be concerned with PPM in a UOA.


Aren't you supposed to say that the OP's fuel dilution number of 1.8% is correct despite a viscosity drop from 13.3 to 9.9, and that Blackstone knows how to measure fuel dilution? Lol.
 
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