2017 Ford Escape Transmission Service question - drain/fill or full swap?

[mrdctaylor]

Guys,

I called the two local Ford dealerships and they want $200 and $235 respectively to do a full ATF swap on my 2017 Ford Escape. They hook it up to a machine and use OEM Mercon LV fluid. I always do drains/fills myself but have decided not to do it on this vehicle because there is no dipstick.

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pay the $200 and get a full fluid swap at the dealer, or buy Mercon LV and take it to my trusted mechanic and pay him (probably) an hour of labor to do it for me. This would come out a good deal cheaper,but is it better to have the entire amount replaced? Or are there issues with doing it via a machine like that? This is all preventative so I certainly don't want to create any issues.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted by mrdctaylor
Guys,

I called the two local Ford dealerships and they want $200 and $235 respectively to do a full ATF swap on my 2017 Ford Escape. They hook it up to a machine and use OEM Mercon LV fluid. I always do drains/fills myself but have decided not to do it on this vehicle because there is no dipstick.

I'm trying to decide whether or not to pay the $200 and get a full fluid swap at the dealer, or buy Mercon LV and take it to my trusted mechanic and pay him (probably) an hour of labor to do it for me. This would come out a good deal cheaper,but is it better to have the entire amount replaced? Or are there issues with doing it via a machine like that? This is all preventative so I certainly don't want to create any issues.

Thoughts? Recommendations?


We have a 2017 Explorer, though with your same transmission, the 6F35. The dealer said the same, they'd only do a full fluid swap for ~$220. They said because it's a "sealed" transmission they can't do a drain and fill. That's BS! I've been doing "cold" drain and fills 3 times since. There is a drain plug on the bottom of the transmission and I refill through the "dipstick" less filler tube. I do it it cold and measure into a measured bucket how much comes out and refill the same amount cold. So far it's worked out great. I bought a case of 12 qt bottles of Mercon LV from Rock Auto for $60, delivered. This way I keep using Ford approved ATF during the warranty. It's easier to change the ATF than the engine oil and filter on the vehicle.

Whimsey

 

[mrdctaylor]

I'm not sure how it is on the Explorer, but it is really difficult for me to get to the fill port in the engine bay. I'm sort of leaning towards paying my mechanic to do it. Other than measuring what comes out, is there a process for getting the level correct?

And other than cost, is there a big downside to going with the full fluid swap?

 

[Whimsey]

Sorry I didn't include this in my original response but with a machine "fluid transfer" you don't know what fluid is still in the lines and left in the tanks. You could be mixing ATF's that are not suitable. I did the initial factory fill drain and fill at 12,000 miles, it was black. The second drain and fill was 10,000 miles later and it was dark grey with a hint of purple. The last drain and and fill i just did was after another 10,000 miles of use and it was finally red colored with no grey. There is a lot of factory wear material that is best to remove if you hope for a long trouble free transmission life. Not having to do a pan drop makes changing the ATF a piece of cake. Again drain and fills are easy do do with this transmission. Also remember that the transmission filter cannot be changed without opening the transmission case. So it's best to keep the filter from getting clogged by more frequent ATF changes if you intend to keep the vehicle.

Whimsey

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted by mrdctaylor
I'm not sure how it is on the Explorer, but it is really difficult for me to get to the fill port in the engine bay. I'm sort of leaning towards paying my mechanic to do it. Other than measuring what comes out, is there a process for getting the level correct?

And other than cost, is there a big downside to going with the full fluid swap?


Your transmission fill port in the Escape maybe more difficult to access than our Explorer's. I'd still feel more comfortable having a mechanic I trust do a drain and fill rather than anybody do a "fluid transfer". I have my trusted mechanic do services that I don't feel comfortable to don't want to do. In the end it'll be less expensive and you know exactly the fluid going in with a drain and fill.

Whimsey

 

[mrdctaylor]

Originally Posted by Whimsey

I have my trusted mechanic do services that I don't feel comfortable to don't want to do. In the end it'll be less expensive and you know exactly the fluid going in with a drain and fill.


That's exactly what I normally do--thanks. I also don't know anyone at either dealership. I'm sort of afraid they'll put some kid on it that normally does oil changes. :-(

How much do you normally get out when you drain it? If I take it to my mechanic I want to go ahead and buy the fluid and take it to him.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted by mrdctaylor
Originally Posted by Whimsey

I have my trusted mechanic do services that I don't feel comfortable to don't want to do. In the end it'll be less expensive and you know exactly the fluid going in with a drain and fill.


That's exactly what I normally do--thanks. I also don't know anyone at either dealership. I'm sort of afraid they'll put some kid on it that normally does oil changes. :-(

How much do you normally get out when you drain it? If I take it to my mechanic I want to go ahead and buy the fluid and take it to him.


Draining it cold I always get 4 quarts out and I put in 4 quarts. So far that's been working fine. Since you're under warranty like me I 'd use either the Mercon LV or the Castrol Transmax Full Synthetic Multi-vehicle ATF which is licensed by Ford for the Mercon LV use transmissions. Other fluids may me "recommended" but for warranty purposes that may be debatable by Ford. It's your choice.

Whimsey

 

[sloinker]

Does this transmission have a filter?

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by mrdctaylor
I'm not sure how it is on the Explorer, but it is really difficult for me to get to the fill port in the engine bay. I'm sort of leaning towards paying my mechanic to do it. Other than measuring what comes out, is there a process for getting the level correct?
Crank the steering wheel to the right and look at the side of the transmission case. You'll see a fill port/bolt there. It's a pretty small hole so I've never heard of anyone using it to actually fill the transmission this way but it's also a level hole. Just like a differential or manual gear box, fill it up until it trickles out. Reinstall the plug and take it for a drive. Get the transmission up to full temperature (15-20 minutes will do it for sure), with the engine running, and then open that hole again. If nothing trickles out, add a small amount (Ford says 0.25 L) at a time until it trickles out. If it starts trickling out with adding just that small amount, you're good to go. No need to worry about the ATF that you're adding being "cold" and inaccurate.

Once you do this, you can trust that the level is "full" and then do the measure-what-comes-out and refill with the same amount method.

Regarding the top-side fill/vent port, it looks worse than it is. There's a coolant hose blocking it on ours (Fusion w/ 1.5L) that moves easily out of the way.

Originally Posted by mrdctaylor
And other than cost, is there a big downside to going with the full fluid swap?

More and more manufacturers are moving towards drain-and-fill for ATF service. Many Japanese automakers have been firm on this for 2 decades (or more). They put a drain plug on the transmission too and it ain't there for "full flushes". To me, only offering a full flush is a money-grab by the service shops at dealers. A drain-and-fill at a Honda dealer requires the same labor and approximately the same amount of fluid and they charge under $100. An ATF drain and fill is easier than an oil change as far as steps, labor, etc go.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Whimsey
[ Draining it cold I always get 4 quarts out and I put in 4 quarts.

Same transmission here but in a different Ford model and I get the same amount. I drain it warm but then let the fluid cool down before I measure it. I used an infrared thermometer one time and vaguely recall it being around 130-140º F when I drained it. I let it cool down to about 80º F before I got impatient and also noticed that the level didn't change any for all practical purposes.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
More and more manufacturers are moving towards drain-and-fill for ATF service. Many Japanese automakers have been firm on this for 2 decades (or more). They put a drain plug on the transmission too and it ain't there for "full flushes". To me, only offering a full flush is a money-grab by the service shops at dealers. A drain-and-fill at a Honda dealer requires the same labor and approximately the same amount of fluid and they charge under $100. An ATF drain and fill is easier than an oil change as far as steps, labor, etc go.
It's much harder for a shop than a DIYer. DIY can just do a measured drain and fill, the shop has to actually check the fluid temp and stuff. What a PITA!

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
It's much harder for a shop than a DIYer. DIY can just do a measured drain and fill, the shop has to actually check the fluid temp and stuff. What a PITA!

With Fords (newer models), they get the fluid temperature and level via their scan tools as I understand it.

 

[dogememe]

Valvoline Maxlife or AMSOIL Fuel-Efficiant ATF over Motorcraft Mercon LV any day. Take it from a fellow 6F35 owner. I generally prefer OE stuff but this is a situation where the OE fluid is NOT the best.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted by dogememe
Valvoline Maxlife or AMSOIL Fuel-Efficiant ATF over Motorcraft Mercon LV any day. Take it from a fellow 6F35 owner. I generally prefer OE stuff but this is a situation where the OE fluid is NOT the best.


Yours is well past the warranty so you can use any ATF that's "recommended". While the odds of transmission issues during warranty are very slim you do protect yourself from potential problems by using a Ford licensed ATF, which "Castrol Transmax Full Synthetic Multi-vehicle" is as well as the Mercon LV of course

. The Valvoline Maxlife and Amsoil ATF are not Ford licensed. There may be other LV type ATF's out there that are Ford licensed, I don't know. But it's your vehicle so use what you want. Yes, the Mercon LV seems to lose it's red dye rather quickly but does that affect it's ability to work properly

.
We have the Ford ESP till 125,000 miles so I'll continue to use the Mercon LV and possibly the Castrol. Heck! Ford doesn't even recommend changing the factory fill ATF until 150,000 miles. That's crazy if you keep your vehicles a long time, new transmissions are a LOT more expensive than 5 to 7 drain and fills

.

Whimsey

 

[dubber09]

Personally, I like to do full change at 30-50K miles from new and then D/F every 30-50K miles.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Whimsey
Heck! Ford doesn't even recommend changing the factory fill ATF until 150,000 miles.

Ford actually calls for 30k mile replacement under "severe" duty. What does severe mean? It's wildly open to interpretation but clearly the 150k interval isn't their absolute rule.

 

[dubber09]

150K miles seems like a loooot of miles for factory fill, do transmission a favor and drain old fluid along with all the metal abrasive material in it.
Would Ford fix or replace your transmission past warranty for free? Just do it and extend its life.

 

[tig1]

I have done 2 drain and fill in my 2017 Ford Fusion with the 6F35 trans. One at 30K and just did the 2nd at 60K. The first was with MC LV and the second with Valvoline Maxlife LV synthetic. I may switch to M1 ATF but it is not LV with the next change. 3 1/2 qts came out and 3 1/2 went in.

 

[mrdctaylor]

I just emailed to follow-up with one of the Ford dealers. They use a BG flush machine, which involves some some sort of chemicals and on top of that, they use BG ATF--not Motorcraft LV. I think I'll pass on that dealership. The stuff may be fine, but I always prefer to stick to OEM transmission fluid.

I called my local mechanic, and even he uses a flushing machine, but he assured me it doesn't use any chemicals and I can bring him any transmission fluid I want.

 

[badtlc]

Even the machine won't do much more than a drain/fill will do because of the transmission design.