I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.
Are dealers getting away from price haggling?
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I hate dealerships. Had to threaten the first Dodge dealership to tow my Durango back and fix it or keep it since the water pump failed 3 days after I bought it and they had that 5 day no questions asked return policy.
2nd time I needed a work car. Found a 2012 Caliber (in 2015) for 10k at a Nissan dealership. Go there, show them the ad, salesman goes "uuhhhh.... someone may have put the wrong price online." Told them if that's true I'm going to Carmax. He went to talk to his manager, came back and said "yeah we can do 10k." Love that little car.
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I'll probably stick with them for car buying.
Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said "we don't haggle here at all" and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
2nd time I needed a work car. Found a 2012 Caliber (in 2015) for 10k at a Nissan dealership. Go there, show them the ad, salesman goes "uuhhhh.... someone may have put the wrong price online." Told them if that's true I'm going to Carmax. He went to talk to his manager, came back and said "yeah we can do 10k." Love that little car.
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I'll probably stick with them for car buying.
Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said "we don't haggle here at all" and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Chris142
In the past I was able to walk and they would chase me down before I got out if the parking lot and try to haggle. The last couple of times they let me walk.
That seems to be pretty common... I guess too many people are paying full sticker price these days?
Too many people don't understand basic math. As evidenced in the recent Black Friday purse buying thread.
Originally Posted by Chris142
In the past I was able to walk and they would chase me down before I got out if the parking lot and try to haggle. The last couple of times they let me walk.
That seems to be pretty common... I guess too many people are paying full sticker price these days?
Too many people don't understand basic math. As evidenced in the recent Black Friday purse buying thread.
Originally Posted by E150GT
I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.
With my last two four-wheeled vehicle purchases, I emailed Dealers around the Country. With the most recent I got the best deal locally, but I know the owner. With the other I found the best deal with a high-volume dealership, did the deal over the phone, flew in, they picked me up, the deal was as stated, no surprises, and then broke in my new truck on the long drive home. Saved thousands over the next best offer.
I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.
With my last two four-wheeled vehicle purchases, I emailed Dealers around the Country. With the most recent I got the best deal locally, but I know the owner. With the other I found the best deal with a high-volume dealership, did the deal over the phone, flew in, they picked me up, the deal was as stated, no surprises, and then broke in my new truck on the long drive home. Saved thousands over the next best offer.
Years back I made an offer on a used Crown Vic at a big new car dealership only 1 mile from me. I haggled with them for a while but they wouldn't budge to get near my $3000-3200 number. They were rock solid at $3500. Nothing doing. The next morning I'm looking through the Saturday paper car ads and I see that same car listed for $2800. I nearly laughed my butt off. How stupid can they be? I called up the salesman who was dealing with me and let them know just how stupid their "negotiations" were....and that I would never step on their lot ever again....despite having bought one other car from before. Dealing with stupid can be costly down the road.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
You have to try all the tricks. I think a day or two before the end of the month/quarter still works.
And yeah, it depends on the model, a hot car they know they can sell they can just hold out for sticker.
Good points. Back in my Honda selling days, one dealership I worked for low balled Civics and Accords to boost allocation on the higher margin units. The GM also felt the more cars we sold the more cars would come back for service, service is a tremendous money maker for the dealership. We were at that time the #1 Honda dealership in the US moving well over 1,000 cars/month. Another Honda store I worked for shot for a higher gross. Knowing how and where to shop helps, a lot. Knowing how the F&I manager is going to try and pick up additional profit in the back end of the deal is very helpful as well.
You have to try all the tricks. I think a day or two before the end of the month/quarter still works.
And yeah, it depends on the model, a hot car they know they can sell they can just hold out for sticker.
Good points. Back in my Honda selling days, one dealership I worked for low balled Civics and Accords to boost allocation on the higher margin units. The GM also felt the more cars we sold the more cars would come back for service, service is a tremendous money maker for the dealership. We were at that time the #1 Honda dealership in the US moving well over 1,000 cars/month. Another Honda store I worked for shot for a higher gross. Knowing how and where to shop helps, a lot. Knowing how the F&I manager is going to try and pick up additional profit in the back end of the deal is very helpful as well.
Back in 1989 when Saturn hit the market with their No Haggle/No Dicker Sticker, Car & Driver Magazine published an article on how all dealers would be going in this direction. And how the whole market would be this way in the next decade(hmmmm!). Customers would either pay the sticker price on the vehicle(as in Saturn's case) or, dealers would put a price on the windshield of the cars on the lot with their lowest price...PERIOD!
Now, we have been talking about these Non Negotiating dealers for ~30 years and I have seen & experienced both. I have walked into a dealership and negotiated my butt off/put the salesperson in, as I say, "the head lock" and squeezed hard. Then I have gone into dealerships where the price was marked down substantially and that is their lowest price. No extra negotiating!
In my area, Chevrolet, Hyundai/KIA & Nissan are marking down their vehicles substantially during certain times of the year. PLUS(in many cases) they're offering discounts &/or rebates for:
Customer loyalty/military discounts/recent college graduate discounts as well. I mean, if you have just graduated from college while in the military and currently own a " specific brand" vehicle, you may qualify for HUGE discounts as well. And what other negotiating power or dealer discounts that apply.
One dealer in particular, marked down some Hyundai/KIA vehicles on their own THEN, offered all of the discounts that I listed above. You could get a $24K-$26K vehicle for $15K-$16K brand new w/full warranty.
And another dealer still, markes down NISSAN Altimas at the end of year at some $7K-$8K+ off sticker, just to move them off the lot. AND 0% financing "For Well Qualified Buyers".
And GM/Chevy always has LARGE discounts on certain vehicles/certain times of the years...Cruze, Malibu, Equinox, Tahoe OR special LEASING.
A funny story:
A buddy of mine(who knows a guy, who knows a guy), got $16,000 knocked off of a NEW Cadillac.
And another time, got $12,000 knocked off of a GMC Sierra. We've all heard these stories!
Now, we have been talking about these Non Negotiating dealers for ~30 years and I have seen & experienced both. I have walked into a dealership and negotiated my butt off/put the salesperson in, as I say, "the head lock" and squeezed hard. Then I have gone into dealerships where the price was marked down substantially and that is their lowest price. No extra negotiating!
In my area, Chevrolet, Hyundai/KIA & Nissan are marking down their vehicles substantially during certain times of the year. PLUS(in many cases) they're offering discounts &/or rebates for:
Customer loyalty/military discounts/recent college graduate discounts as well. I mean, if you have just graduated from college while in the military and currently own a " specific brand" vehicle, you may qualify for HUGE discounts as well. And what other negotiating power or dealer discounts that apply.
One dealer in particular, marked down some Hyundai/KIA vehicles on their own THEN, offered all of the discounts that I listed above. You could get a $24K-$26K vehicle for $15K-$16K brand new w/full warranty.
And another dealer still, markes down NISSAN Altimas at the end of year at some $7K-$8K+ off sticker, just to move them off the lot. AND 0% financing "For Well Qualified Buyers".
And GM/Chevy always has LARGE discounts on certain vehicles/certain times of the years...Cruze, Malibu, Equinox, Tahoe OR special LEASING.
A funny story:
A buddy of mine(who knows a guy, who knows a guy), got $16,000 knocked off of a NEW Cadillac.
And another time, got $12,000 knocked off of a GMC Sierra. We've all heard these stories!
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I had a stupid cousin brag about Saturn buying model, I told him any dealer will sell you a car for sticker price you idiot! Of course how did that work out for Saturn LOL
Buying cars is not difficult if you do your research, at worst you should get invoice and rebates, if your willing to drive, maybe a little more. Of course if the dealer is local and has good service, that has to factor in.
Buying cars is not difficult if you do your research, at worst you should get invoice and rebates, if your willing to drive, maybe a little more. Of course if the dealer is local and has good service, that has to factor in.
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.
DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.
And with the internet, you pretty much know the price you should be paying. What I do is be fair, I don't expect the dealer to get screwed either. So make realistic offers and be firm with them.
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.
DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.
And with the internet, you pretty much know the price you should be paying. What I do is be fair, I don't expect the dealer to get screwed either. So make realistic offers and be firm with them.
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Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.
DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.
That's pretty much what I do for a new vehicle purchase. I found dealing with the internet manager is the best way to go. Most of the time they'll push to get you into the store. I politely let them know that will only happen after we cut a deal and I'm ready to come in to sign the buyers order and leave a deposit. If they don't play that way I move on to someone that will. That method gets good results.
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.
DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.
That's pretty much what I do for a new vehicle purchase. I found dealing with the internet manager is the best way to go. Most of the time they'll push to get you into the store. I politely let them know that will only happen after we cut a deal and I'm ready to come in to sign the buyers order and leave a deposit. If they don't play that way I move on to someone that will. That method gets good results.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.
DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.
That's pretty much what I do for a new vehicle purchase. I found dealing with the internet manager is the best way to go. Most of the time they'll push to get you into the store. I politely let them know that will only happen after we cut a deal and I'm ready to come in to sign the buyers order and leave a deposit. If they don't play that way I move on to someone that will. That method gets good results.
yeah the worse thing you can do is come in and then they start all the BS....."I have to talk to my sales manager" type of thing. What a joke.
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.
DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.
That's pretty much what I do for a new vehicle purchase. I found dealing with the internet manager is the best way to go. Most of the time they'll push to get you into the store. I politely let them know that will only happen after we cut a deal and I'm ready to come in to sign the buyers order and leave a deposit. If they don't play that way I move on to someone that will. That method gets good results.
yeah the worse thing you can do is come in and then they start all the BS....."I have to talk to my sales manager" type of thing. What a joke.
Chris, I hear you. They're mega chain dealers around me. You can browse many of their lots and not have someone approach you at all.
You can start a negotiating process, walk away and never hear from them.
It would be rare to not get them to move some off of MSRP, but like said, that totally depends on supply and demand.
I've done the email thing lots of times, dating back to around 1999-2000. Today you have to be careful with that because they can quote you a great price and then tack dealer fees onto the deal after you drive all the way there.
I know you can go the "out the door" price. You still have to know and understand all the line item costs and know what you are willing to pay for each. You have to shop around to know them.
You can start a negotiating process, walk away and never hear from them.
It would be rare to not get them to move some off of MSRP, but like said, that totally depends on supply and demand.
I've done the email thing lots of times, dating back to around 1999-2000. Today you have to be careful with that because they can quote you a great price and then tack dealer fees onto the deal after you drive all the way there.
I know you can go the "out the door" price. You still have to know and understand all the line item costs and know what you are willing to pay for each. You have to shop around to know them.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I'll probably stick with them for car buying.
Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said "we don't haggle here at all" and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?
Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else.
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I'll probably stick with them for car buying.
Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said "we don't haggle here at all" and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?
Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by tony1679
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I'll probably stick with them for car buying.
Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said "we don't haggle here at all" and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?
Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else.
I was going to say; carmax is the worst for pricing.
Some tactics Ive observed are:
- regional sales group fees - non-negotiable fees to a regional group of some sort, which they can't remove and must be paid to them. Supposedly all dealers in an area pay them so you can't escape.
- dealer prep pack, usually window etching and wheel locks and such stuff, which they give a retail price, and since they're already installed on all cars as they come in, they're tough to remove, best that can be done is negotiate them down.
All of this is why it's critical to negotiate an out the door price that's appropriate. They can allocate costs however they wish, all you really care is what you're paying in full. They could sell the car for $1 and the Adonis for tens of thousands for all I care, so long as the out the door price is right.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I'll probably stick with them for car buying.
Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said "we don't haggle here at all" and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?
Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else.
I was going to say; carmax is the worst for pricing.
Some tactics Ive observed are:
- regional sales group fees - non-negotiable fees to a regional group of some sort, which they can't remove and must be paid to them. Supposedly all dealers in an area pay them so you can't escape.
- dealer prep pack, usually window etching and wheel locks and such stuff, which they give a retail price, and since they're already installed on all cars as they come in, they're tough to remove, best that can be done is negotiate them down.
All of this is why it's critical to negotiate an out the door price that's appropriate. They can allocate costs however they wish, all you really care is what you're paying in full. They could sell the car for $1 and the Adonis for tens of thousands for all I care, so long as the out the door price is right.
Bid it out.
Start sending out e-mails to every dealer you can find who has what you're looking for. State that you're in the market for that vehicle and that you're going to buy it from whoever gives you the best deal. When comparing price, be sure you're comparing apples to apples.
Don't be afraid to ask them to remove the doc fee - that is pure profit for them. Also, if it's out of town, don't be afraid to ask them to deliver at no extra charge. In fact, buying from out of town is often the easiest. Negotiation handled via phone/text/email, then they just send the paperwork with the delivery driver for you to sign.
Another thing - if you're financing, join a credit union. That will often be your best rate (unless getting 0% or other extremely low rate from a manufacturer's in-house bank). I got 1.99% @ 72 mos. from a local credit union when I bought my new 2016 WRX back in March 2016.
Start sending out e-mails to every dealer you can find who has what you're looking for. State that you're in the market for that vehicle and that you're going to buy it from whoever gives you the best deal. When comparing price, be sure you're comparing apples to apples.
Don't be afraid to ask them to remove the doc fee - that is pure profit for them. Also, if it's out of town, don't be afraid to ask them to deliver at no extra charge. In fact, buying from out of town is often the easiest. Negotiation handled via phone/text/email, then they just send the paperwork with the delivery driver for you to sign.
Another thing - if you're financing, join a credit union. That will often be your best rate (unless getting 0% or other extremely low rate from a manufacturer's in-house bank). I got 1.99% @ 72 mos. from a local credit union when I bought my new 2016 WRX back in March 2016.
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Another thing - if you're financing, join a credit union. That will often be your best rate (unless getting 0% or other extremely low rate from a manufacturer's in-house bank). I got 1.99% @ 72 mos. from a local credit union when I bought my new 2016 WRX back in March 2016.
Yup, my credit union financed my Escape at 5.9% when everyone else either straight up wouldn't finance me. I think one other lender was willing to do it at 29%.
Another thing - if you're financing, join a credit union. That will often be your best rate (unless getting 0% or other extremely low rate from a manufacturer's in-house bank). I got 1.99% @ 72 mos. from a local credit union when I bought my new 2016 WRX back in March 2016.
Yup, my credit union financed my Escape at 5.9% when everyone else either straight up wouldn't finance me. I think one other lender was willing to do it at 29%.
Got 18% off MSRP sticker price on the subi and 15% off my previous Ram.
5 years ago the wife needed a new used car.
After 3 weeks of visiting dealer lots when they were closed and her not finding a car she liked we found the 2010 Elantra.
I had gotten to the point of just find a car and buy it.
It was a no haggle dealer.
I checked the price on the net and it was smack in the middle of comparable Elantras.
Some were a 1K higher and some 1K lower.
We found the car on Sunday and drove it home Monday at 5:30.
At that point the money was less of a concern than lets get this over.
Buying a car to me is like buying a sweater,just find what you like and get it done.
I never understood people looking to buy a new car for 30K or more walking away for a couple hundred.
If a couple hundred means that much maybe you should take the bus.
After 3 weeks of visiting dealer lots when they were closed and her not finding a car she liked we found the 2010 Elantra.
I had gotten to the point of just find a car and buy it.
It was a no haggle dealer.
I checked the price on the net and it was smack in the middle of comparable Elantras.
Some were a 1K higher and some 1K lower.
We found the car on Sunday and drove it home Monday at 5:30.
At that point the money was less of a concern than lets get this over.
Buying a car to me is like buying a sweater,just find what you like and get it done.
I never understood people looking to buy a new car for 30K or more walking away for a couple hundred.
If a couple hundred means that much maybe you should take the bus.
Last February we were in the market for a Lexus RX450h. The 2018s were trickling onto the lots; dealers were closing out the 2017s.
Silicon Valley is the #1 market for Lexus. There are at least 5 dealers within 50 miles. Within 100 miles, even more.
I emailed each dealer and told them what I wanted and that I was doing the same with each dealer.
They were all close to each other, with the winner being almost 10% off MSRP which was really good because new year models do not get late-year discounts...
It kinda helped that I had an in with Putnam Lexus in Redwood City.
When I was about to pull the trigger, Stevens Creek Lexus offered me an slightly better deal, but I wanted to be true to my word.
We went with Putnam and bought another (used) car a few months later.
Another suggestion is to use Costco; get their price so you at least have a starting point.
Good luck.
Silicon Valley is the #1 market for Lexus. There are at least 5 dealers within 50 miles. Within 100 miles, even more.
I emailed each dealer and told them what I wanted and that I was doing the same with each dealer.
They were all close to each other, with the winner being almost 10% off MSRP which was really good because new year models do not get late-year discounts...
It kinda helped that I had an in with Putnam Lexus in Redwood City.
When I was about to pull the trigger, Stevens Creek Lexus offered me an slightly better deal, but I wanted to be true to my word.
We went with Putnam and bought another (used) car a few months later.
Another suggestion is to use Costco; get their price so you at least have a starting point.
Good luck.
As others have said, it really depends on the car. If you're buying any sedan, hatchback or wagon, you can probably get a deal just based on how the market is trending.
Funny thing about the internet/online sales manager vs. going into the dealer. Having bought my last couple of cars online remotely, I would have agreed with this thought--until my dealer experience... I had an offer from a remote dealer on an Alltrack via the interwebs, about 5K off of list. Seemed like a solid deal, though I hadn't actually driven the car yet (I knew I wanted a manual transmission wagon, and there aren't a lot of options out there). I went into a local dealer with no intentions of buying a car; I just wanted to drive it before I hopped on a plane to pick up the other car. The dealer did ALL of the typical car dealer nonsense, "what can we do to get you in this car today", talking to his manager--me walking out of the dealership and him chasing me down, etc... I ended up walking out with an Alltrack SE at 20% off of list, with no stupid add ons I didn't want.
I guess the moral of the story is that if you're walking into a dealer, your best negotiating position is not really wanting to buy a car there... Clearly in this case the dealer was more interested in moving inventory that making a profit on the sale--for whatever reason. In this instance, the gueling dealer visit ended up being worth it.
Funny thing about the internet/online sales manager vs. going into the dealer. Having bought my last couple of cars online remotely, I would have agreed with this thought--until my dealer experience... I had an offer from a remote dealer on an Alltrack via the interwebs, about 5K off of list. Seemed like a solid deal, though I hadn't actually driven the car yet (I knew I wanted a manual transmission wagon, and there aren't a lot of options out there). I went into a local dealer with no intentions of buying a car; I just wanted to drive it before I hopped on a plane to pick up the other car. The dealer did ALL of the typical car dealer nonsense, "what can we do to get you in this car today", talking to his manager--me walking out of the dealership and him chasing me down, etc... I ended up walking out with an Alltrack SE at 20% off of list, with no stupid add ons I didn't want.
I guess the moral of the story is that if you're walking into a dealer, your best negotiating position is not really wanting to buy a car there... Clearly in this case the dealer was more interested in moving inventory that making a profit on the sale--for whatever reason. In this instance, the gueling dealer visit ended up being worth it.
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