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Are dealers getting away from price haggling? #4940949
12/01/18 07:13 PM
12/01/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,038
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content OP
Chris142  Online Content OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,038
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940956
12/01/18 07:20 PM
12/01/18 07:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,426
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,426
San Antonio, TX
Some don't. Some do.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940959
12/01/18 07:23 PM
12/01/18 07:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 820
texas
danez_yoda Online content
danez_yoda  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 820
texas
They move or you move.

Sticker price is only for a vehicle that sells like hotcakes. Need to find the slow runner and buy at the end of the quarter and during the week or rainy days.

You want to go opposite tye crowd. Dont be afraid to be unreasonable, come up with a price and keep offering it u til someone bites

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940968
12/01/18 07:30 PM
12/01/18 07:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,464
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,464
New Jersey
If you bought used cars the situation may be different.

New cars all depends upon what the dealer is after - moving product. Some product moves fast, other product doesnt. If it doesnt move fast, better prices are more likely, especially if theyre sitting on it.

Used vehicles depend upon their understanding of demand, and the cost structure of what they paid to get the vehicle...

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940969
12/01/18 07:31 PM
12/01/18 07:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
Los Gatos, CA
JeffKeryk Offline
JeffKeryk  Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
Los Gatos, CA
They have to bargain. There are lotsa dealers out there. Call and email all the dealers with 100 miles.
I am curious: what car and what dealers?


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940974
12/01/18 07:33 PM
12/01/18 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,689
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Online content
JohnnyJohnson  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,689
Wet side WA
If they don't just move along down the road. Too many suckers is the problem!


2004 Corolla 128202
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74615
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940976
12/01/18 07:36 PM
12/01/18 07:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,038
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content OP
Chris142  Online Content OP
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,038
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
In the past I was able to walk and they would chase me down before I got out if the parking lot and try to haggle. The last couple of times they let me walk.


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940991
12/01/18 07:49 PM
12/01/18 07:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,249
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,249
Dallas,Tx USA
Yep,if a stealer is proud,WALK. In my experience,it's the sleazy small town stealers that are always like that.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4940992
12/01/18 07:50 PM
12/01/18 07:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by Chris142
In the past I was able to walk and they would chase me down before I got out if the parking lot and try to haggle. The last couple of times they let me walk.


That seems to be pretty common... I guess too many people are paying full sticker price these days?


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #4940995
12/01/18 07:52 PM
12/01/18 07:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
If they don't just move along down the road. Too many suckers is the problem!


DO NOT OPEN this if you don't like hearing profanity:


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941001
12/01/18 08:00 PM
12/01/18 08:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,249
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,249
Dallas,Tx USA


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941010
12/01/18 08:09 PM
12/01/18 08:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,477
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Online confused
bullwinkle  Online Confused
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,477
Cincinnati, OH, USA
When my Mom wanted to buy her new Matrix (back in '06) we talked to the Toyota dealers here-none of them here in greater Cincinnati wanted to make a good deal, at all. Went to Frankfort, KY-got around $3500 off sticker with no problem. Don't be afraid to walk, there's always another dealer who wants a sale!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941017
12/01/18 08:15 PM
12/01/18 08:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,328
PV Az
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,328
PV Az
If you're talking about that FJ in you sig not surprising. If he doesn't sell it today he'll probably sell it for more next month. Happens when you buy a vehicle with a cult following.


86 Samurai 1.3 leftovers
14 RAV4 2.5 5W-20 PP
16 Silverado 1500 4.3, DI, AFM 5W-30 PP

The most important thing to do in your life is to not interfere with someone else's life. - Frank Zappa

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: AZjeff] #4941024
12/01/18 08:25 PM
12/01/18 08:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,599
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,599
Virginia
^^^^^
Good point AZjeff.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #4941029
12/01/18 08:28 PM
12/01/18 08:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,300
Ohio
Tdbo Offline
Tdbo  Offline
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,300
Ohio
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
If they don't just move along down the road. Too many suckers is the problem!


The "Road" I move on is the electronic highway. Bought my last new car using a 500 mile range from home, got an array of prices and started working them via e-mail. When we got down to an acceptable spread, got on the phone with them. Took 15 minutes and 3 phone calls (them calling me back.)
I have found best focus is a small(er) town dealer close to a metro area. I live 20 minutes N of Columbus, and bought my last car from a dealer just S of Canton.
When I bought the Ranger in my signature (used,) they told me 9K take it or leave it. I bought it two weeks later for $5500. Always start out being nice, but don't hesitate to explore and exploit your "Inner jerk" at the proper moment.


2012 Honda Accord LX-P 95K
2008 Ford Mustang Pony Package Convertible 17K
2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L 76K
2003 Ford Ranger 3.0 Supercab 114K
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: danez_yoda] #4941033
12/01/18 08:32 PM
12/01/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,246
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,246
NY
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
They move or you move.



Exactly! If I'm not happy with the salesman, the manger, or the price I walk out. It is really quite easy. My attitude is they need my money, I can spend my money where ever I want. The dealer that gives me the best price out the door wins.

A few months back my son and I had a great time buying him a new car. He learned a lot and got a great deal in the process.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941048
12/01/18 08:45 PM
12/01/18 08:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,774
MA
Wolf359 Online content
Wolf359  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,774
MA
You have to try all the tricks. I think a day or two before the end of the month/quarter still works.

And yeah, it depends on the model, a hot car they know they can sell they can just hold out for sticker.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941064
12/01/18 08:57 PM
12/01/18 08:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,147
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,147
New England
Depends on model. New cars definitely not the case especially the common compact CUV market. They all negotiate.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941122
12/01/18 10:09 PM
12/01/18 10:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
KansasCity
twoheeldrive Offline
twoheeldrive  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 64
KansasCity
Getting the best price for a car is not easy... it can be pretty hard work. Stressful at best. The car dealers do it every day and are masters at it. They have very subtle ways of putting pressure on you.

Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

My best deals on new cars have been made over the phone before I even went into the dealer. Obviously, you need to know exactly what car and options you want to make this work.

It also helps to know what other folks are paying for the same car... so the internet (mostly forums) are your friend.

And sometimes... time is your best negotiator. The last used car I bought took no negotiating at all. It was a turkey... sitting in the back of their lot, languishing for months. Every couple of weeks they would drop the price on their web page... and when they hit my price (basically wholesale) I bought it. This obviously doesn't work with cars that are in demand.

Car dealers are so "old school". They have been selling cars the same way for decades. There has to be a better way... but, until there is, NEGOTIATE.


... using Mobil 1 since 1976.
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941127
12/01/18 10:12 PM
12/01/18 10:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 276
FL
BubbaFL Offline
BubbaFL  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 276
FL
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.


Good economy, low unemployment, people are spending money - sales managers don't need to cut prices to make their numbers.

If you're sick of playing the game, try Carvana - I did, got a better point-click-buy price than I could negotiate in person, and the car delivered to my door. Never going back!

PM me if you want a discount code for a few hundred bucks off a purchase.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941137
12/01/18 10:30 PM
12/01/18 10:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,426
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,426
San Antonio, TX
I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941170
12/02/18 12:16 AM
12/02/18 12:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 178
Northern Indiana
Skippy722 Offline
Skippy722  Offline
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 178
Northern Indiana
I hate dealerships. Had to threaten the first Dodge dealership to tow my Durango back and fix it or keep it since the water pump failed 3 days after I bought it and they had that 5 day no questions asked return policy.

2nd time I needed a work car. Found a 2012 Caliber (in 2015) for 10k at a Nissan dealership. Go there, show them the ad, salesman goes “uuhhhh.... someone may have put the wrong price online.” Told them if that’s true I’m going to Carmax. He went to talk to his manager, came back and said “yeah we can do 10k.” Love that little car.

Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I’ll probably stick with them for car buying.

Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said “we don’t haggle here at all” and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.

Last edited by Skippy722; 12/02/18 12:18 AM.

2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2012 Dodge Caliber SXT
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Linctex] #4941188
12/02/18 02:26 AM
12/02/18 02:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,353
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,353
The Canyons
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Chris142
In the past I was able to walk and they would chase me down before I got out if the parking lot and try to haggle. The last couple of times they let me walk.


That seems to be pretty common... I guess too many people are paying full sticker price these days?


Too many people don't understand basic math. As evidenced in the recent Black Friday purse buying thread.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: E150GT] #4941189
12/02/18 02:33 AM
12/02/18 02:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,353
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,353
The Canyons
Originally Posted by E150GT
I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.


With my last two four-wheeled vehicle purchases, I emailed Dealers around the Country. With the most recent I got the best deal locally, but I know the owner. With the other I found the best deal with a high-volume dealership, did the deal over the phone, flew in, they picked me up, the deal was as stated, no surprises, and then broke in my new truck on the long drive home. Saved thousands over the next best offer.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941192
12/02/18 03:08 AM
12/02/18 03:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,014
Connecticut
69GTX Online content
69GTX  Online Content
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,014
Connecticut
Years back I made an offer on a used Crown Vic at a big new car dealership only 1 mile from me. I haggled with them for a while but they wouldn't budge to get near my $3000-3200 number. They were rock solid at $3500. Nothing doing. The next morning I'm looking through the Saturday paper car ads and I see that same car listed for $2800. I nearly laughed my butt off. How stupid can they be? I called up the salesman who was dealing with me and let them know just how stupid their "negotiations" were....and that I would never step on their lot ever again....despite having bought one other car from before. Dealing with stupid can be costly down the road.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Wolf359] #4941199
12/02/18 04:26 AM
12/02/18 04:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,246
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,246
NY
Originally Posted by Wolf359
You have to try all the tricks. I think a day or two before the end of the month/quarter still works.

And yeah, it depends on the model, a hot car they know they can sell they can just hold out for sticker.

Good points. Back in my Honda selling days, one dealership I worked for low balled Civics and Accords to boost allocation on the higher margin units. The GM also felt the more cars we sold the more cars would come back for service, service is a tremendous money maker for the dealership. We were at that time the #1 Honda dealership in the US moving well over 1,000 cars/month. Another Honda store I worked for shot for a higher gross. Knowing how and where to shop helps, a lot. Knowing how the F&I manager is going to try and pick up additional profit in the back end of the deal is very helpful as well.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941208
12/02/18 04:54 AM
12/02/18 04:54 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,750
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,750
ROCHESTER, NY
Back in 1989 when Saturn hit the market with their No Haggle/No Dicker Sticker, Car & Driver Magazine published an article on how all dealers would be going in this direction. And how the whole market would be this way in the next decade(hmmmm!). Customers would either pay the sticker price on the vehicle(as in Saturn's case) or, dealers would put a price on the windshield of the cars on the lot with their lowest price...PERIOD!

Now, we have been talking about these Non Negotiating dealers for ~30 years and I have seen & experienced both. I have walked into a dealership and negotiated my butt off/put the salesperson in, as I say, "the head lock" and squeezed hard. Then I have gone into dealerships where the price was marked down substantially and that is their lowest price. No extra negotiating!

In my area, Chevrolet, Hyundai/KIA & Nissan are marking down their vehicles substantially during certain times of the year. PLUS(in many cases) they're offering discounts &/or rebates for:

Customer loyalty/military discounts/recent college graduate discounts as well. I mean, if you have just graduated from college while in the military and currently own a " specific brand" vehicle, you may qualify for HUGE discounts as well. And what other negotiating power or dealer discounts that apply.

One dealer in particular, marked down some Hyundai/KIA vehicles on their own THEN, offered all of the discounts that I listed above. You could get a $24K-$26K vehicle for $15K-$16K brand new w/full warranty.

And another dealer still, markes down NISSAN Altimas at the end of year at some $7K-$8K+ off sticker, just to move them off the lot. AND 0% financing "For Well Qualified Buyers".

And GM/Chevy always has LARGE discounts on certain vehicles/certain times of the years...Cruze, Malibu, Equinox, Tahoe OR special LEASING.

A funny story:
A buddy of mine(who knows a guy, who knows a guy), got $16,000 knocked off of a NEW Cadillac.
And another time, got $12,000 knocked off of a GMC Sierra. We've all heard these stories! laugh

Last edited by Char Baby; 12/02/18 05:01 AM.

"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941217
12/02/18 05:53 AM
12/02/18 05:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,690
NE
VNTS Offline
VNTS  Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,690
NE
I had a stupid cousin brag about Saturn buying model, I told him any dealer will sell you a car for sticker price you idiot! Of course how did that work out for Saturn LOL

Buying cars is not difficult if you do your research, at worst you should get invoice and rebates, if your willing to drive, maybe a little more. Of course if the dealer is local and has good service, that has to factor in.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941218
12/02/18 05:59 AM
12/02/18 05:59 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,463
Minnesota
philipp10 Online content
philipp10  Online Content
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,463
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.

DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.

And with the internet, you pretty much know the price you should be paying. What I do is be fair, I don't expect the dealer to get screwed either. So make realistic offers and be firm with them.

Last edited by philipp10; 12/02/18 06:08 AM.
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: philipp10] #4941220
12/02/18 06:05 AM
12/02/18 06:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,246
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,246
NY
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.

DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.


That's pretty much what I do for a new vehicle purchase. I found dealing with the internet manager is the best way to go. Most of the time they'll push to get you into the store. I politely let them know that will only happen after we cut a deal and I'm ready to come in to sign the buyers order and leave a deposit. If they don't play that way I move on to someone that will. That method gets good results.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: demarpaint] #4941221
12/02/18 06:10 AM
12/02/18 06:10 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,463
Minnesota
philipp10 Online content
philipp10  Online Content
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,463
Minnesota
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.

DO what I have done. First do some research on the internet. Once you know what you should be paying, haggle through email or the phone to multiple dealers. Since you are not sitting in front of them, all their old tricks won't work. Trust me, they will haggle if they want a chance to be in the sale.


That's pretty much what I do for a new vehicle purchase. I found dealing with the internet manager is the best way to go. Most of the time they'll push to get you into the store. I politely let them know that will only happen after we cut a deal and I'm ready to come in to sign the buyers order and leave a deposit. If they don't play that way I move on to someone that will. That method gets good results.

yeah the worse thing you can do is come in and then they start all the BS....."I have to talk to my sales manager" type of thing. What a joke.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941230
12/02/18 06:30 AM
12/02/18 06:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
Chris, I hear you. They're mega chain dealers around me. You can browse many of their lots and not have someone approach you at all.

You can start a negotiating process, walk away and never hear from them.

It would be rare to not get them to move some off of MSRP, but like said, that totally depends on supply and demand.

I've done the email thing lots of times, dating back to around 1999-2000. Today you have to be careful with that because they can quote you a great price and then tack dealer fees onto the deal after you drive all the way there.

I know you can go the "out the door" price. You still have to know and understand all the line item costs and know what you are willing to pay for each. You have to shop around to know them.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Skippy722] #4941235
12/02/18 06:40 AM
12/02/18 06:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 722
Central Oklahoma
tony1679 Offline
tony1679  Offline
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Posts: 722
Central Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I’ll probably stick with them for car buying.

Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said “we don’t haggle here at all” and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?

Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else. shrug


'16 Hyundai Elantra 1.8L 77k
'08 Chevy Impala SS 5.3L 132k (Tuned- AFM is EVIL!)
Original GM tranny still laying rubber.thankyou
\/SP & WIX FTW
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: tony1679] #4941260
12/02/18 07:46 AM
12/02/18 07:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,464
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
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Posts: 42,464
New Jersey
Originally Posted by tony1679
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I’ll probably stick with them for car buying.

Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said “we don’t haggle here at all” and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?

Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else. shrug


I was going to say; carmax is the worst for pricing.

Some tactics Ive observed are:
- regional sales group fees - non-negotiable fees to a regional group of some sort, which they can't remove and must be paid to them. Supposedly all dealers in an area pay them so you can't escape.
- dealer prep pack, usually window etching and wheel locks and such stuff, which they give a retail price, and since they're already installed on all cars as they come in, they're tough to remove, best that can be done is negotiate them down.

All of this is why it's critical to negotiate an out the door price that's appropriate. They can allocate costs however they wish, all you really care is what you're paying in full. They could sell the car for $1 and the Adonis for tens of thousands for all I care, so long as the out the door price is right.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941278
12/02/18 08:08 AM
12/02/18 08:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,313
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Offline
john_pifer  Offline
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Posts: 2,313
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Bid it out.

Start sending out e-mails to every dealer you can find who has what you're looking for. State that you're in the market for that vehicle and that you're going to buy it from whoever gives you the best deal. When comparing price, be sure you're comparing apples to apples.

Don't be afraid to ask them to remove the doc fee - that is pure profit for them. Also, if it's out of town, don't be afraid to ask them to deliver at no extra charge. In fact, buying from out of town is often the easiest. Negotiation handled via phone/text/email, then they just send the paperwork with the delivery driver for you to sign.

Another thing - if you're financing, join a credit union. That will often be your best rate (unless getting 0% or other extremely low rate from a manufacturer's in-house bank). I got 1.99% @ 72 mos. from a local credit union when I bought my new 2016 WRX back in March 2016.


16 WRX - PPPP
07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra, 10K OCIs, 198K
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: john_pifer] #4941282
12/02/18 08:12 AM
12/02/18 08:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,607
San Rafael, CA
dogememe Offline
dogememe  Offline
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Posts: 1,607
San Rafael, CA
Originally Posted by john_pifer


Another thing - if you're financing, join a credit union. That will often be your best rate (unless getting 0% or other extremely low rate from a manufacturer's in-house bank). I got 1.99% @ 72 mos. from a local credit union when I bought my new 2016 WRX back in March 2016.


Yup, my credit union financed my Escape at 5.9% when everyone else either straight up wouldn't finance me. I think one other lender was willing to do it at 29%.


2010 Ford Escape 2.5 ~92K Miles: RP 5W-30, AMSOIL SS FE ATF.
1995 Chevy Silverado 5.7 ~277K Miles: Delo 10W-30, AMSOIL OE MV ATF.
AMSOIL in EVERYTHING!
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941307
12/02/18 08:29 AM
12/02/18 08:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,357
in the shop
sw99 Offline
sw99  Offline
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Posts: 2,357
in the shop
Got 18% off MSRP sticker price on the subi and 15% off my previous Ram.


2016 Nissan Versa S 1.6L
2018 Subaru Outback 2.5i
2019 Ford F250 6.7L CCSB

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941327
12/02/18 08:46 AM
12/02/18 08:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 572
Denver
marine65 Online content
marine65  Online Content
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Posts: 572
Denver
5 years ago the wife needed a new used car.
After 3 weeks of visiting dealer lots when they were closed and her not finding a car she liked we found the 2010 Elantra.
I had gotten to the point of just find a car and buy it.
It was a no haggle dealer.
I checked the price on the net and it was smack in the middle of comparable Elantras.
Some were a 1K higher and some 1K lower.
We found the car on Sunday and drove it home Monday at 5:30.
At that point the money was less of a concern than lets get this over.
Buying a car to me is like buying a sweater,just find what you like and get it done.

I never understood people looking to buy a new car for 30K or more walking away for a couple hundred.
If a couple hundred means that much maybe you should take the bus.


2006 Nissan Sentra 200K miles. How far will it go ?
2018 Hyundai Elantra GT
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941509
12/02/18 11:17 AM
12/02/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 954
Los Gatos, CA
JeffKeryk Offline
JeffKeryk  Offline
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Posts: 954
Los Gatos, CA
Last February we were in the market for a Lexus RX450h. The 2018s were trickling onto the lots; dealers were closing out the 2017s.
Silicon Valley is the #1 market for Lexus. There are at least 5 dealers within 50 miles. Within 100 miles, even more.
I emailed each dealer and told them what I wanted and that I was doing the same with each dealer.
They were all close to each other, with the winner being almost 10% off MSRP which was really good because new year models do not get late-year discounts...
It kinda helped that I had an in with Putnam Lexus in Redwood City.
When I was about to pull the trigger, Stevens Creek Lexus offered me an slightly better deal, but I wanted to be true to my word.
We went with Putnam and bought another (used) car a few months later.

Another suggestion is to use Costco; get their price so you at least have a starting point.
Good luck.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941514
12/02/18 11:20 AM
12/02/18 11:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,253
PNW/WA
JOD Offline
JOD  Offline
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Posts: 3,253
PNW/WA
As others have said, it really depends on the car. If you're buying any sedan, hatchback or wagon, you can probably get a deal just based on how the market is trending.

Funny thing about the internet/online sales manager vs. going into the dealer. Having bought my last couple of cars online remotely, I would have agreed with this thought--until my dealer experience... I had an offer from a remote dealer on an Alltrack via the interwebs, about 5K off of list. Seemed like a solid deal, though I hadn't actually driven the car yet (I knew I wanted a manual transmission wagon, and there aren't a lot of options out there). I went into a local dealer with no intentions of buying a car; I just wanted to drive it before I hopped on a plane to pick up the other car. The dealer did ALL of the typical car dealer nonsense, "what can we do to get you in this car today", talking to his manager--me walking out of the dealership and him chasing me down, etc... I ended up walking out with an Alltrack SE at 20% off of list, with no stupid add ons I didn't want.

I guess the moral of the story is that if you're walking into a dealer, your best negotiating position is not really wanting to buy a car there... Clearly in this case the dealer was more interested in moving inventory that making a profit on the sale--for whatever reason. In this instance, the gueling dealer visit ended up being worth it.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941532
12/02/18 11:36 AM
12/02/18 11:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,308
The Garden State
Whimsey Offline
Whimsey  Offline
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Posts: 4,308
The Garden State
From the same Ford dealer I purchased new a 1989 F-150, 1996 Contour and a 2002 F-150. I used Consumer Reports paid service to get the dealer invoice cost and offered the dealer $200 over this. These I ordered so the dealer got to keep the total 3% hold back. Could I have gotten a slightly better deal with haggling, maybe. BUT other dealers were not up front and played all sorts of games, such as claiming the factory incentives did not apply to their selling offer. it was easier and more pleasurable to do it my way. Both the dealer and I were "happy" in the end, without the aggravation of haggling. It may have cost a bit more but both sides made out fairly and I got extra "warranty" service even though it had expired. This was worth the little extra I might have paid for the vehicles. My wife bought a new Explorer in January of 2017. She used the "internet sales department" at 2 of the dealers to get pricing. At both dealers when she went in person she was handed off to a sales rep who said what ever the internet sales person told you was not valid. Needless to say those conversation did not last long LOL. She bought from a dealer who told her the up front cost of the vehicle, not just the monthly financing costs, and she got ALL of the Ford rebates, even the one for being an EMT. The price was fair for both parties.

Whimsey

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941535
12/02/18 11:39 AM
12/02/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
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Posts: 7,466
Waco, TX
I don't know how to make this not sound sexist.....

But I know two women that bought their cars with pretty much NO NEGOTIATION AT ALL.

A lot of women are making a lot of money nowadays....

and I think their "No haggle" negotiating "tactics" are ruining it for the rest of us.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4941546
12/02/18 11:44 AM
12/02/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,981
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
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Posts: 6,981
...
A lot of people go in to dealerships blind. With all the resources on the interwebs today you should be able to get a decent price.

Some makes and models are selling so well that dealers probably have a floor and they won’t go below that.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: tony1679] #4941819
12/02/18 04:56 PM
12/02/18 04:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 178
Northern Indiana
Skippy722 Offline
Skippy722  Offline
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 178
Northern Indiana
Originally Posted by tony1679
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Traded the Durango in for our 2016 300 at Carmax. So much less stress than any dealership. I’ll probably stick with them for car buying.

Also tried leasing a 2016 Charger SXT at one point. What an absolutely aggravating experience that was. Ended up walking away from that... sales guy said “we don’t haggle here at all” and I knew that they did. That was the last time I ever stepped foot on one.
Am I the only one confused by this?

Wants to stick with Carmax for no-haggle pricing (which is a rip-off, Carmax is ALWAYS higher on every vehicle I've ever looked at, even prior to any negotiation elsewhere), yet was upset with no-haggle somewhere else. shrug


For the dealer that said it was no haggle, it actually was and still is. Had friends buy cars after that and haggled their way down. That sales guy no longer works there.


Paid 23k towards the beginning of the year for my 300 at Carmax. At the time they were 26+ at all the dealers. Just looked up the fair purchase price on KBB and it’s 19-20k now for the same 300. Sometimes you can find a perfectly fair deal on a car there, but you have to know what you’re looking for. Could I have gotten one cheaper or with fewer miles elsewhere? Definitely. Would it have taken more time I’d rather spend elsewhere? Yep.

Last edited by Skippy722; 12/02/18 05:03 PM.

2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2012 Dodge Caliber SXT
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Linctex] #4942247
12/03/18 04:09 AM
12/03/18 04:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
artbuc Offline
artbuc  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
West Chester, PA
Originally Posted by Linctex
I don't know how to make this not sound sexist.....

But I know two women that bought their cars with pretty much NO NEGOTIATION AT ALL.

A lot of women are making a lot of money nowadays....

and I think their "No haggle" negotiating "tactics" are ruining it for the rest of us.


Don’t worry. It doesn’t sound sexist at all, just stupid.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4942661
12/03/18 04:03 PM
12/03/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
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Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
When I was buying SIenna, at Toyota dealer:
Dealer: This is ticker price, cannot lower, it is popular vehicle, it is Toyota after all (I jumped in to say that that is really not something that I take as a value).
Me: I found one in Michigan for $4,000 lower.
Dealer: Yeah, but it is in Michigan, you won't drive your trade in there.
Me: Yes I will, would not be first time.
Dealer: For $4,000?
Me: I would walk for $4,000.
Dealer: Well, I cannot do that.

Two months later:
Dealer calls and ask am I still interested as suddenly they can negotiate.
Me: Dude, do you really think I was lying to you when I said I will go elsewhere to get a car?

Point is, too many people are just willing to pay MSRP, especially when it comes to these poorly engineered, lack of any sound insulation, miserable driving Toyota's.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4942741
12/03/18 05:52 PM
12/03/18 05:52 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Too many dumb people willing to pay whatever price they are given. This is not a problem limited to the auto sales industry. This problem has caused get reductions in quality, along with huge rises in pricing.

Best thing you can do is never be in a position to "need it right now!". That is the attitude that gets people.

"I can't take off any time from work."

"I can't spare the time away from my family"

"I just want this to be over with "

Etc, etc. I've never understood the URGENCY people get about getting a new car. The dealerships everywhere, and they are loaded with cars, but people act like a device is strapped to their neck with a clock ticking down.

Unless I came across a neck breaking deal, I have always spent months getting a new car. Just trolling the water until I found a deal I liked.

Negotiations: He who cares less wins.

I did accidentally discover a good negotiating tactic. Go to their parts department like you're going to buy a part. Ask for something there's no way they actually have, or just say you don't have you VIN#. Then just kinda troll the showroom a little on your way out. Salesmen know it's a steep grade toward convincing someone who only came for an oil filter or clip into buying a new car.

I think they cut me good deals in that situation just so they can tell all their buddies they sold a car to a guy who came to buy an oil filter.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: DoubleWasp] #4942749
12/03/18 06:03 PM
12/03/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Too many dumb people willing to pay whatever price they are given. This is not a problem limited to the auto sales industry. This problem has caused get reductions in quality, along with huge rises in pricing.

Best thing you can do is never be in a position to "need it right now!". That is the attitude that gets people.


I don't disagree with you, but a totally clueless car buyer has got to be an extreme rarity now. Everyone has access to the innerwebs and getting a feel for pricing and costs is only a few clicks or swipes away.

I don't consider myself a tech savvy guy at all, yet every one of my dozens of car purchases in the past ~20 years (for me and family) began, or was totally based on the internet.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4942768
12/03/18 06:18 PM
12/03/18 06:18 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
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Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
You can have a clue, but still not have a spine. When I've gone to dealers, I'm still hearing the same spiel I was hearing 15 years ago. Same tactics, same everything. People are definitely falling for it.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Linctex] #4942770
12/03/18 06:21 PM
12/03/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 572
Denver
marine65 Online content
marine65  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 572
Denver
Originally Posted by Linctex
I don't know how to make this not sound sexist.....

But I know two women that bought their cars with pretty much NO NEGOTIATION AT ALL.

A lot of women are making a lot of money nowadays....

and I think their "No haggle" negotiating "tactics" are ruining it for the rest of us.


a lot of women lawyers,Doctors etc making a ton of money
they dont have the time or patience to play the dealer games.
the time they spend in their careers out weighs a couple grand or so haggling
they just want the car they like and they buy it
not so dumb.


2006 Nissan Sentra 200K miles. How far will it go ?
2018 Hyundai Elantra GT
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: DoubleWasp] #4942774
12/03/18 06:27 PM
12/03/18 06:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
You can have a clue, but still not have a spine. When I've gone to dealers, I'm still hearing the same spiel I was hearing 15 years ago. Same tactics, same everything. People are definitely falling for it.



That is a fact. A lot of it is the same. The only difference I've found is if I leave, most of the time that's it. I never hear from them again. They used to follow you out, or call you within a day or two..


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: E150GT] #4942801
12/03/18 07:07 PM
12/03/18 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 136
No. California
tbm3fan Offline
tbm3fan  Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 136
No. California
Originally Posted by E150GT
I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.


I just bought a 2018 Mazda 3 from a local dealer. Actually the closest one to my house at 2 miles while my list had them out to 100 miles. I knew the sticker price of the car I wanted. Located all of them within 100 miles. Wrote them done on my legal pad along with the attributes I needed to check off when looking at the car. My mind was made up unless something was wrong when looking at the car. The first dealer had one and I could tell it had been there awhile. Essentially a basically optioned sedan with no large tires and wheels. Examined the car from inside, to outside, to engine and to under carriage checking off my list. No test drive was taken as I didn't need one. Manager was out while I did that as the first guy said I couldn't remove the cover from the engine. It was remove or I leave.

I knew the price range people were getting which was between 17,500-18,200 before tax and license. He saw my 91 626 I drove up in. When we sat down he offered 18,000 and I asked if that was with tax and license? It was as tax and license was just over $1500. That was $500 more than my 2004 Focus ZTS which was the last car I bought. This was for my wife and I was happy. Nice car and great mileage.


2018 Mazda 3
2004 Buick LeSabre
2004 Focus
1998 Sable
1991 Mazda 626
1973 Polara
1968 Cougar
1968 Mustang
1967 Park Lane
1965 F-100

My toy: USS Hornet CV-12
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: twoheeldrive] #4943224
12/04/18 10:02 AM
12/04/18 10:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,129
Perris, CA
Anduril Offline
Anduril  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,129
Perris, CA
Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

Report it stolen. If they won't give you your car back when asked, technically they did steal it.

Last edited by Anduril; 12/04/18 10:03 AM.

2015 Nissan Versa Note 1.6/5MT
2012 Toyota Tacoma 2.7/4AT
2007 Toyota Camry 2.4/5AT
2005 Nissan XTerra 4x4 4.0/6MT
2002 Mustang GT Convertible 4.6/5MT
2009 Kawasaki Vulcan 900
2013 Hyosung ST7
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Anduril] #4943237
12/04/18 10:23 AM
12/04/18 10:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,188
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,188
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by Anduril
Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

Report it stolen. If they won't give you your car back when asked, technically they did steal it.


Not if you gave them your keys and they can claim their techs has taken it for a test drive to appraise its condition. Or if it's a big dealership they can claim it was parked in some odd spot and they couldn't find it.
I hardly doubt police would waste their time on something like this, unless you were there for hours waiting for them to give your car back.

Last edited by KrisZ; 12/04/18 10:26 AM.

2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-30k miles.
2007 Ford Focus ZX3-110k miles
2006 Mazda 3-168k miles
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: JTK] #4943342
12/04/18 12:04 PM
12/04/18 12:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
You can have a clue, but still not have a spine. When I've gone to dealers, I'm still hearing the same spiel I was hearing 15 years ago. Same tactics, same everything. People are definitely falling for it.



That is a fact. A lot of it is the same. The only difference I've found is if I leave, most of the time that's it. I never hear from them again. They used to follow you out, or call you within a day or two..


I've heard that a lot. Local market conditions have a lot to do with it. If business is good (i.e. credit is cheap) the salesperson doesn't need the headache just to make a couple of hundred bucks. I even think dealers keep internal records of their customers where they notate which ones are prone to "pay MSRP" and which are not, which are loyal and not.


'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 0w30.
Prev
'10 335d
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Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Anduril] #4944463
12/05/18 06:26 PM
12/05/18 06:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,698
New England
Jarlaxle Offline
Jarlaxle  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,698
New England
Originally Posted by Anduril
Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

Report it stolen. If they won't give you your car back when asked, technically they did steal it.


My brother found that yelling, "GIVE ME MY KEYS. RIGHT (expletive) NOW!" with the last three words screamed at the top of his lungs worked pretty well.


1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, winter storage frown
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 Super Tech, Super Tech
2011 Sportster 883, winter storage frown
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4944506
12/05/18 07:29 PM
12/05/18 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 483
Jupiter, FL
thescreensavers Offline
thescreensavers  Offline
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Posts: 483
Jupiter, FL
I saved 15% on my purchase with 2-3 hours of haggling. Would do it again in a heartbeat


2017 Camaro SS 1LE (Motul 8100 X-clean 5W40)
1997 Jeep XJ 4x4 (15W40 HDEO Maxlife)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4947893
12/10/18 03:19 AM
12/10/18 03:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
wa
Exhaustgases Offline
Exhaustgases  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
wa
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4947895
12/10/18 03:47 AM
12/10/18 03:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,882
N.Ohio
Lubener Offline
Lubener  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,882
N.Ohio
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.

"No haggle pricing" is getting popular in my area.

Last edited by Lubener; 12/10/18 03:48 AM.

The "thinking" man's friend.
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Exhaustgases] #4948008
12/10/18 07:53 AM
12/10/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
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Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 12/10/18 07:54 AM.

'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 0w30.
Prev
'10 335d
'06 330i
'03 330i
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4948566
12/10/18 08:16 PM
12/10/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,631
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,631
Silicon Valley
Depends.

A lot of dealers are in area that they have no competition near by, and most people will not try to go far away to save $500-1k for a car that's 30k. Also a lot of people know they don't know how to negotiate, so they would rather pay $500 more than risk paying $3k more in bad deals. Dealers are doing it because they know someone will bite.

The smart buyers are all doing internet negotiation now, so if you walk in they assume you don't know how to use the internet or are old, and rely on "relationship" or "I bought my last car here so you better treat me right" mentality.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #4949620
12/12/18 02:46 AM
12/12/18 02:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
wa
Exhaustgases Offline
Exhaustgases  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
wa
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.


They would like you to believe that. Sorry but I know all about manufacturing. I gave an example.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4949657
12/12/18 05:01 AM
12/12/18 05:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,249
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,249
Sunny Florida
Repetitive hooey about "evil" corporations is an old mantra, not very accurate. Most of your largest corps invest fantastically large sums of money in R&D, it's one of their largest expenses. This is especially true of the auto makers.



People who do not understand business frequently miss this point. And there is NOTHING wrong with making a profit, nothing at all. There is however a huge PR opportunity in spreading the misinformation to sway public opinion.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4950862
12/13/18 10:43 AM
12/13/18 10:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11
USA
Rusty9 Offline
Rusty9  Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 11
USA
We got our Toyota dealer to come way down on price by going through USAA and having them get the lowest quote for the car we were looking for.
We walked in to the dealership and told them the price and they gave it to us no problem.
We had been in that place a day earlier and the new price was far lower than they originally quoted us.
It pays to shop around.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: PandaBear] #4950915
12/13/18 11:35 AM
12/13/18 11:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 418
Canada
emg Offline
emg  Offline
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Posts: 418
Canada
Originally Posted by PandaBear
A lot of dealers are in area that they have no competition near by, and most people will not try to go far away to save $500-1k for a car that's 30k.


Yes. If you want to buy a new car here, you'll probably have to drive 200km or more to the nearest competing dealer. So if you want a specific car and aren't willing to take your second choice instead, you're pretty much screwed. And, even if you are willing to take the second choice, they know they're the only dealer in 200km who can sell you that car.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975163
01/10/19 01:05 PM
01/10/19 01:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 210
GA
Silver Offline
Silver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 210
GA
I'm noticing this too. They even have this new fancy thing called "no haggle pricing" which basically means "up yours". Read yelp reviews. Hundreds saying the sales guy didn't care if he sold the car or not. This is in large metro areas with lots every 500 feet, literally!

It's coming from the last couple years of booming car sales along with the demoralization of the country. Honestly if you find a dealer that can be trusted, buy whatever it is they're selling. That's a lot harder than finding the best brand.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975249
01/10/19 02:48 PM
01/10/19 02:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 100
Boston
sgtrockjoe Offline
sgtrockjoe  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 100
Boston
Do your research. If you can't come to a meeting of the minds on price, walk. You have the power. They have to sell cars. You do not have to buy.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975255
01/10/19 02:55 PM
01/10/19 02:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,584
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
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Posts: 19,584
PNW
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.


I helped a gal buy a used 2013 Ford Escape a couple days ago. We went super per-paired with KBB trade-in and dealer selling prices, etc. We tried every angle possible for them to even take $300~$500 off their asking price. It was a no trade-in deal. Their price was on the very high end of the KBB dealer price and they wouldn't come down $1. They kept claiming they were basically selling it for "wholesale" ... I had to chuckle. It was was late at night when they were about ready to close, so tried to put pressure on them to make a sale. Sales manager finally got involved and best we could do is have them delete the $150 document fees and throw in a new battery since it still had the original battery and needed a jump on the lot. Otherwise, the vehicle was pretty nice and loaded with options she was looking for.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975275
01/10/19 03:10 PM
01/10/19 03:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
Just experienced similar nonsense with 3 out of 4 local Ram dealers. 3 out of 4 wouldn't respond to online requests for a price. Only one cared enough to email me back repeatedly. The rest basically told me to get bent. "You need to come in to see what rebates you qualify for". Please...


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975357
01/10/19 05:08 PM
01/10/19 05:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,107
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,107
OH
Went to one Toyota dealer and after 45 mins of dealing with them still didn't have a price and ended up leaving. I was a little peaved. They would say, offer us a price. Then have you wait and wait. Come back and say, no we can't do that, offer us another price. Make you wait and wait. Trying to get you to bid against yourself.

Went to next closest dealer and a young lady comes up to me. After a short time comes back with a trade offer and price on the new car that was reasonable. I had my figures written down for trade, new car price and out the door amount. After short time she comes back with sales mgr who says if we can do your numbers can we make a deal today? Me: sure. And that was that, very simple and easy. I couldn't believe the difference btwn the two.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975655
01/10/19 10:31 PM
01/10/19 10:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
I always managed to get what I wanted. And I buy in all lower 48 states.
When I lived in Montgomery, AL, bought three cars in ATL. Montgomery dealers did not want to negotiated, went to ATL, competition is tough, everyone wants to make a deal.
Lived in San Diego and got offer for a job here in Colorado Springs. Wife said she wants AWD vehicle. Tried RAV4, CRV etc, she settled on Tiguan (was also my preference but did not want to push too hard as she never owned Euro vehicle and was "afraid" of them). Talked to dealers, got really good offer from dealer in Virginia that saved me some $4,000 for SEL model. Took overnight Delta one way for some $160, bought some cigars, drove it back in 2 1/2 days, smoked some cigars on a way, saw some stuff, nice road trip.
Few years back, was on the market for BMW diesel. Talked few dealers in Chicago, ATL, Salt Lake etc. Found one in Minneapolis, drove my CC there, traded in, drove back. Again, smoked some cigars, drink some beer, nice road trip.
Was traded in BMW for Sienna and was negotiating gain all over the country and some locally. Almost pulled deal on Sienna in Michigan, when one popped in in Denver that is AWD, and I really made a good deal. At the same time local Toyota was harassing me since I checked with them and told the guy I am trying to make a deal in Michigan, he said: wait, you would go for a car there? I said yes, they are like $3,000 cheaper. His answer: for $3,000 you would drive there? I said: dude, for a good road trip I would drive for free, but to save $3,000 I would walk. [censored] is wrong with you, I asked. I can put those $3,000 on my kids 529 plan.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975901
01/11/19 10:07 AM
01/11/19 10:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,188
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,188
Canuck living in California
Personally I don't think dealerships are getting away from price haggling, is the customers that let the dealers get away from price haggling.

Customers these days simply don't know how to say no and walk away.

As someone mentioned earlier, dealers have to sell, you don't have to buy.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-30k miles.
2007 Ford Focus ZX3-110k miles
2006 Mazda 3-168k miles
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4975922
01/11/19 10:26 AM
01/11/19 10:26 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
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Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Consumer culture. People who wait in line for hours to buy the latest $1000 phone that won't be worth toilet water next year don't think really put a lot of thought into purchasing.

When it comes to car purchasing, people always seem to get it in their head that they NEED a car right NOW. Dealers are giant lots with tons of cars. They aren't going to pack up and move tomorrow. Why the rush? These are the last people anyone should excercise urgency with.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4976083
01/11/19 12:36 PM
01/11/19 12:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,608
KY
MCompact Offline
MCompact  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,608
KY
I worked at a BMW dealer for about 18 months. I was a product specialist but I could also sell cars if everyone else was busy. Most of the deals were pretty easy; we offered fleet discounts to employees of most of the larger businesses and didn’t play games. I heard more than once from a customer that they chose our store because we were low pressure and shot straight.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4976658
01/12/19 01:35 AM
01/12/19 01:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,380
Central Iowa
TiredTrucker Offline
TiredTrucker  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,380
Central Iowa
I have gotten away from haggling over price. I simply look for what I want and I ask the dealer for their best out the door price, including tax. I approach several other dealers regarding the same vehicle and ask for the same thing. All the while letting each of them know that I am seeking the best OTD price from other dealers. What dealer has the vehicle I want doesn't factor into it. Any dealer can get a vehicle from any other dealer. 2 of the last 4 vehicles i have bought, the vehicle I wanted was brought to me from another dealer. One of them was out of state and 200 miles away.

If a dealer tries to tack on anything else above their quoted OTD price, the deal is squashed and I leave. The OTD price they quote has to be the one that gets the vehicle driven off the lot. There is no additional filing fees, destination fees, and other nonsense to jack up the price later. They should have included any fees and such in their quote. I did ask for an OTD price. If financing is needed, that is prearranged by me elsewhere. I will let the dealer try to beat it, but it is not even brought up about financing until the OTD price is settled. Until the price is agreed on, for all they know I will be writing a check and not financing. Likewise, even if I am interested in trading in a vehicle, that is not brought up or discussed until the OTD price is settled. The trade is a totally separate thing. If they can't be reasonable with that, I will sell it myself.

And any deal, I always take a break and go to lunch or wait till next day to finalize. Never close without taking a break away from the dealership. I guess that is mean of me. I like them to wonder if I might walk away from the deal. Sometimes they will call me and sweeten the deal. Also, there is no shuffling me from sales guy to finance guy or whoever. If the initial sales guy cannot quote me the OTD price, then point me to who can. This shuffling of the customer to different people and levels of negotiation will not play.

I give a dealer I have dealt with previously the first shot. But they still have to compete with other dealers. As opposed to me being loyal to the dealer or the brand, they have to be loyal to me and prove it. Unfortunately, none of them have been. Each of the last 4 vehicles I bought from different dealers. Same OEM brand, but different dealerships. It is some weird idea in America that the consumer has to be loyal to the dealership or the brand. I am a businessman, and I guess the reason I stay profitable is that I understand that I need to cater to my customers, not the other way around. American car dealerships can be really arrogant.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Exhaustgases] #4976689
01/12/19 04:15 AM
01/12/19 04:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 178
Northern Indiana
Skippy722 Offline
Skippy722  Offline
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 178
Northern Indiana
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.


They would like you to believe that. Sorry but I know all about manufacturing. I gave an example.


There might be 5 grand in raw materials in there. But machining and related tooling, plant upkeep, wages and benefits, taxes, indirect costs, R&D, etc all add up real quick. I too know about manufacturing.

Porsche was averaging about 18% profit. There’s no way they’re getting that out of a Toyota.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2012 Dodge Caliber SXT
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4976695
01/12/19 05:01 AM
01/12/19 05:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,956
Ontario Canada
cjcride Online content
cjcride  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,956
Ontario Canada
Nice post TiredTrucker.
Arrogant and ignorant ryhme for a reason.

Last edited by cjcride; 01/12/19 05:03 AM. Reason: clarity
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4981923
01/17/19 02:17 AM
01/17/19 02:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 11
Arizona by way of Jersey and N...
jerseyguy123 Offline
jerseyguy123  Offline
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 11
Arizona by way of Jersey and N...
I look at KBB and cars.com and autotrader. I offer them a fair price and I usually get a good deal. I have bought
20 cars and the experience is usually good. But I will walk away if the dealer is not bargaining in good faith

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4983165
01/18/19 03:28 AM
01/18/19 03:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,380
Central Iowa
TiredTrucker Offline
TiredTrucker  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,380
Central Iowa
The only problem with KBB (Cox Automotive) and Autotrader (Cox Media Group) is that they are industry sponsored sources presented by the same PR organization in favor of auto dealers.. By their very nature they keep the used prices elevated. Oh... NADA guides? Owned by J.D. Power. Another PR firm. Again, sponsored by and paid for by the auto industry itself. Oh well, someone has to pay the bills.

There is very little that can be called "objective" about the pricing in any of these things. But it works in favor of the auto dealers, especially those that are not OEM sponsored dealerships that buy vehicle at auctions to resell. It is not uncommon for "joe's used cars" to pick up vehicle at auction at prices that are significantly lower than "book" values. That means the dealers that brought the cars to auction knew they were not worth book value also.

A "good deal" is one that a person can live with. But a good deal should be like lawsuits, wherein a good settlement is one where both parties feel equally screwed. It is certain the many dealerships themselves do not follow the NADA, KBB, etc in terms of car value. The only way they give someone the "book" value in trade is if the vehicle the customer is buying is getting far more than what it is actually worth in the deal. It becomes a mind numbing cycle in favor of the dealerships. This is why I prefer to keep new car and used car negotiations separate. When they are combined, one will lose out in favor of the other and the dealer has two ways to buffalo the customer instead of one.

In terms of buying from a private owner, unless I know them personally and their vehicle, my offer will start at the lowest price a dealer would offer for the vehicle in trade. Now KBB and NADA might help a little bit there. One has to question the validity of KBB and NADA in this regard... why is it the car has one value if trading and another value if buying from a private source. It shows how things are skewed, and we have no real way fo knowing how skewed. The value of the car should be the same across the board.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
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