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Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4942661
12/03/18 04:03 PM
12/03/18 04:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,872
Colorado Springs
When I was buying SIenna, at Toyota dealer:
Dealer: This is ticker price, cannot lower, it is popular vehicle, it is Toyota after all (I jumped in to say that that is really not something that I take as a value).
Me: I found one in Michigan for $4,000 lower.
Dealer: Yeah, but it is in Michigan, you won't drive your trade in there.
Me: Yes I will, would not be first time.
Dealer: For $4,000?
Me: I would walk for $4,000.
Dealer: Well, I cannot do that.

Two months later:
Dealer calls and ask am I still interested as suddenly they can negotiate.
Me: Dude, do you really think I was lying to you when I said I will go elsewhere to get a car?

Point is, too many people are just willing to pay MSRP, especially when it comes to these poorly engineered, lack of any sound insulation, miserable driving Toyota's.


15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4942741
12/03/18 05:52 PM
12/03/18 05:52 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Too many dumb people willing to pay whatever price they are given. This is not a problem limited to the auto sales industry. This problem has caused get reductions in quality, along with huge rises in pricing.

Best thing you can do is never be in a position to "need it right now!". That is the attitude that gets people.

"I can't take off any time from work."

"I can't spare the time away from my family"

"I just want this to be over with "

Etc, etc. I've never understood the URGENCY people get about getting a new car. The dealerships everywhere, and they are loaded with cars, but people act like a device is strapped to their neck with a clock ticking down.

Unless I came across a neck breaking deal, I have always spent months getting a new car. Just trolling the water until I found a deal I liked.

Negotiations: He who cares less wins.

I did accidentally discover a good negotiating tactic. Go to their parts department like you're going to buy a part. Ask for something there's no way they actually have, or just say you don't have you VIN#. Then just kinda troll the showroom a little on your way out. Salesmen know it's a steep grade toward convincing someone who only came for an oil filter or clip into buying a new car.

I think they cut me good deals in that situation just so they can tell all their buddies they sold a car to a guy who came to buy an oil filter.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: DoubleWasp] #4942749
12/03/18 06:03 PM
12/03/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Too many dumb people willing to pay whatever price they are given. This is not a problem limited to the auto sales industry. This problem has caused get reductions in quality, along with huge rises in pricing.

Best thing you can do is never be in a position to "need it right now!". That is the attitude that gets people.


I don't disagree with you, but a totally clueless car buyer has got to be an extreme rarity now. Everyone has access to the innerwebs and getting a feel for pricing and costs is only a few clicks or swipes away.

I don't consider myself a tech savvy guy at all, yet every one of my dozens of car purchases in the past ~20 years (for me and family) began, or was totally based on the internet.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4942768
12/03/18 06:18 PM
12/03/18 06:18 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,878
Fort Lauderdale, FL
You can have a clue, but still not have a spine. When I've gone to dealers, I'm still hearing the same spiel I was hearing 15 years ago. Same tactics, same everything. People are definitely falling for it.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Linctex] #4942770
12/03/18 06:21 PM
12/03/18 06:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 573
Denver
marine65 Online content
marine65  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 573
Denver
Originally Posted by Linctex
I don't know how to make this not sound sexist.....

But I know two women that bought their cars with pretty much NO NEGOTIATION AT ALL.

A lot of women are making a lot of money nowadays....

and I think their "No haggle" negotiating "tactics" are ruining it for the rest of us.


a lot of women lawyers,Doctors etc making a ton of money
they dont have the time or patience to play the dealer games.
the time they spend in their careers out weighs a couple grand or so haggling
they just want the car they like and they buy it
not so dumb.


2006 Nissan Sentra 200K miles. How far will it go ?
2018 Hyundai Elantra GT
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: DoubleWasp] #4942774
12/03/18 06:27 PM
12/03/18 06:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,057
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
You can have a clue, but still not have a spine. When I've gone to dealers, I'm still hearing the same spiel I was hearing 15 years ago. Same tactics, same everything. People are definitely falling for it.



That is a fact. A lot of it is the same. The only difference I've found is if I leave, most of the time that's it. I never hear from them again. They used to follow you out, or call you within a day or two..


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: E150GT] #4942801
12/03/18 07:07 PM
12/03/18 07:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 136
No. California
tbm3fan Offline
tbm3fan  Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 136
No. California
Originally Posted by E150GT
I emailed three mazda dealers wanting a price on a 2016 mazda 6. Only one would provide a price via email. the other two were the types of dealers that prey on people and make them come in to talk price. They never got my business.


I just bought a 2018 Mazda 3 from a local dealer. Actually the closest one to my house at 2 miles while my list had them out to 100 miles. I knew the sticker price of the car I wanted. Located all of them within 100 miles. Wrote them done on my legal pad along with the attributes I needed to check off when looking at the car. My mind was made up unless something was wrong when looking at the car. The first dealer had one and I could tell it had been there awhile. Essentially a basically optioned sedan with no large tires and wheels. Examined the car from inside, to outside, to engine and to under carriage checking off my list. No test drive was taken as I didn't need one. Manager was out while I did that as the first guy said I couldn't remove the cover from the engine. It was remove or I leave.

I knew the price range people were getting which was between 17,500-18,200 before tax and license. He saw my 91 626 I drove up in. When we sat down he offered 18,000 and I asked if that was with tax and license? It was as tax and license was just over $1500. That was $500 more than my 2004 Focus ZTS which was the last car I bought. This was for my wife and I was happy. Nice car and great mileage.


2018 Mazda 3
2004 Buick LeSabre
2004 Focus
1998 Sable
1991 Mazda 626
1973 Polara
1968 Cougar
1968 Mustang
1967 Park Lane
1965 F-100

My toy: USS Hornet CV-12
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: twoheeldrive] #4943224
12/04/18 10:02 AM
12/04/18 10:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,129
Perris, CA
Anduril Offline
Anduril  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,129
Perris, CA
Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

Report it stolen. If they won't give you your car back when asked, technically they did steal it.

Last edited by Anduril; 12/04/18 10:03 AM.

2015 Nissan Versa Note 1.6/5MT
2012 Toyota Tacoma 2.7/4AT
2007 Toyota Camry 2.4/5AT
2005 Nissan XTerra 4x4 4.0/6MT
2002 Mustang GT Convertible 4.6/5MT
2009 Kawasaki Vulcan 900
2013 Hyosung ST7
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Anduril] #4943237
12/04/18 10:23 AM
12/04/18 10:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,188
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,188
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by Anduril
Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

Report it stolen. If they won't give you your car back when asked, technically they did steal it.


Not if you gave them your keys and they can claim their techs has taken it for a test drive to appraise its condition. Or if it's a big dealership they can claim it was parked in some odd spot and they couldn't find it.
I hardly doubt police would waste their time on something like this, unless you were there for hours waiting for them to give your car back.

Last edited by KrisZ; 12/04/18 10:26 AM.

2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-30k miles.
2007 Ford Focus ZX3-110k miles
2006 Mazda 3-168k miles
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: JTK] #4943342
12/04/18 12:04 PM
12/04/18 12:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
You can have a clue, but still not have a spine. When I've gone to dealers, I'm still hearing the same spiel I was hearing 15 years ago. Same tactics, same everything. People are definitely falling for it.



That is a fact. A lot of it is the same. The only difference I've found is if I leave, most of the time that's it. I never hear from them again. They used to follow you out, or call you within a day or two..


I've heard that a lot. Local market conditions have a lot to do with it. If business is good (i.e. credit is cheap) the salesperson doesn't need the headache just to make a couple of hundred bucks. I even think dealers keep internal records of their customers where they notate which ones are prone to "pay MSRP" and which are not, which are loyal and not.


'15 435i - BMW branded Shell 0w30.
Prev
'10 335d
'06 330i
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Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Anduril] #4944463
12/05/18 06:26 PM
12/05/18 06:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,698
New England
Jarlaxle Offline
Jarlaxle  Offline
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,698
New England
Originally Posted by Anduril
Originally Posted by twoheeldrive
Their favorite trick is called "hide the trade". Never, ever give them the keys to your trade in. If you do, it will disappear so they can "appraise" it. It will be hard to get back. So, if they want to appraise it... go with them and KEEP YOUR KEYS. It makes it hard to walk out if you can't find your car.

Report it stolen. If they won't give you your car back when asked, technically they did steal it.


My brother found that yelling, "GIVE ME MY KEYS. RIGHT (expletive) NOW!" with the last three words screamed at the top of his lungs worked pretty well.


1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, winter storage frown
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 Super Tech, Super Tech
2011 Sportster 883, winter storage frown
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4944506
12/05/18 07:29 PM
12/05/18 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 483
Jupiter, FL
thescreensavers Offline
thescreensavers  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 483
Jupiter, FL
I saved 15% on my purchase with 2-3 hours of haggling. Would do it again in a heartbeat


2017 Camaro SS 1LE (Motul 8100 X-clean 5W40)
1997 Jeep XJ 4x4 (15W40 HDEO Maxlife)
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4947893
12/10/18 03:19 AM
12/10/18 03:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
wa
Exhaustgases Offline
Exhaustgases  Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 113
wa
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.

Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Chris142] #4947895
12/10/18 03:47 AM
12/10/18 03:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,882
N.Ohio
Lubener Offline
Lubener  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,882
N.Ohio
Originally Posted by Chris142
The last couple times we bought a vehicle the dealer would not move from the sticker price.

"No haggle pricing" is getting popular in my area.

Last edited by Lubener; 12/10/18 03:48 AM.

The "thinking" man's friend.
Re: Are dealers getting away from price haggling? [Re: Exhaustgases] #4948008
12/10/18 07:53 AM
12/10/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,505
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
So lets see the average 30k priced car costs what 5k to build. It could be less if they stopped the costly yearly changes that aren't always for the better.
Profit = greed tax.


Try again,

Toyota has a pre-tax profit margin of about 8 percent and it's one of the highest in the industry. Domestics are lower (GM ~ 7 percent). So in your example it would cost a car company anywhere from $23k-$25k to build/market that $30k car.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 12/10/18 07:54 AM.

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