Marvel mystery oil vs Rislone engine treatment opinions

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Yes, we need more informtion to help with a possible diagnosis. So far with the symptoms given it sounds like a lifter. however. the noise at 3000 rpm if it is said lifter would indicate a worn plunger in the lifter.
 
Originally Posted by Dinoburner
Yes, we need more informtion to help with a possible diagnosis. So far with the symptoms given it sounds like a lifter. however. the noise at 3000 rpm if it is said lifter would indicate a worn plunger in the lifter.

In which case repair would be in order. No additive will work.
 
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Neighbor mechanic buddy would run dino in specified grade a quart short and a quart of atf for the make up. Get the engine warm and dump.


How does using hydraulic fluid with little in the way of detergents help anything?
 
Did it helps if I used Rislone engine treatment 32oz without damaging or hurting engine seals? Or just change oil at 5k will be better ?
 
Originally Posted by Toh1
Did it helps if I used Rislone engine treatment 32oz without damaging or hurting engine seals? Or just change oil at 5k will be better ?


From what I've gathered, Rislone will not hurt seals and may actually have esters that would benefit them. My use of Rislone is likely a one-off and as I said I would never use it every oil change, just as a flush in a new-to-me used car. If you feel you have issues with sludge and deposits, by all means use it on one OCI, then change the oil with 5K OCI's after...

Some motor oil co.make cleaning claims, Pennzoil YP, Mobil 1 are the main ones....
 
Currently I am using pennnzoil platinum high mileage 0w20 and Mobil 1 0w20 high mileage.
 
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Neighbor mechanic buddy would run dino in specified grade a quart short and a quart of atf for the make up. Get the engine warm and dump.


How does using hydraulic fluid with little in the way of detergents help anything?

I'm not a mechanic or chemical engineer so it's beyond my knowledge. My neighbor is a long time Saab mechanic I have seen him do this for years. He buys, sells, owns and has the same customers come back time again for him to service repair and buy more vehicles from him. The cars he sells run like a clock for many years. ATF fluid has a lot of seal conditioners anti rust and corrosion inhibitors detergents and dispersants. Look it up.
 
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Rislone (non-concentrate) in the 16-32oz bottle works better and faster than the bottle that states it's a concentrate.

Nice to read that you obtained 300K with it. Just be patient with the results and Rislone non-concentrate definitely will help with engine noise. Use the maximum amount of Rislone for two entire OCIs..... including mixing more Rislone @25%, when topping-off with needed oil.

Also, use the OEM Honda oil filter for the next two OCIs. It's built for your engine. Aftermarkets have different settings and your "particular" Honda may desire OEM oil filters. Stranger things have happened, when troubleshooting engine ticks. A different oil filter may help with improved flow.

If Honda not suitable for you, three other top-shelf oil filter choices are Wix XP, NAPA Platinum and K&N Gold. Doesn't sound like you have a dirty engine. Get that oil moving around at top-flow for a couple OCIs and see if added pressure-flow help unstick and remove a little burnt crud.
 
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Neighbor mechanic buddy would run dino in specified grade a quart short and a quart of atf for the make up. Get the engine warm and dump.


How does using hydraulic fluid with little in the way of detergents help anything?

I'm not a mechanic or chemical engineer so it's beyond my knowledge. My neighbor is a long time Saab mechanic I have seen him do this for years. He buys, sells, owns and has the same customers come back time again for him to service repair and buy more vehicles from him. The cars he sells run like a clock for many years. ATF fluid has a lot of seal conditioners anti rust and corrosion inhibitors detergents and dispersants. Look it up.


From an actual oil formulator and member of this board:

Originally Posted by Molakule

I posted this in another thread but this may be of interest to the whole board. I have made some minor additions to it.


The main requirements of an ATF are thermal stability and friction modification (lubrication), with some anti-wear additive for the Sun, lock-up, and Planetary Gears, and of course, the needle/pin bearings. Add about 0.05% of anti-foamants (siloxanes) and some red dye for leak identification, and you have an special Hydraulic Oil called, 'ATF.' The formulator will tweak the additive package for each base oil type (group) or mixes of base oils.


Here is the chemistry for an ATF such as Dexron III:
(Average additive concentration by wt.% taken from seven (7) different additive packages)

Phosphorous - 0.3% AW additive
Zinc - 0.23% AW additive, anti-oxidant as ZDDP
Nitrogen - 0.9% AW additive
Boron - 0.16% Detergent and AW additive
Calcium - 0.05% Detergent/Dispersant, tbn base chemistry
Magnesium - 0.05% Detergent and base chemistry
Sulfur - 0.55% FM and AW
Barium - various% used as particlate control

In the newer ATF oils of Group II-III, added esters of lineoleic esters, TMP polyol ester, and PE polyol ester, and other carboxylic esters, act as FM additives. The Additives phosphorous, sulfur, and boron are usually added in the form of esters when formulated with the base oil. For fully synthetic oils, the PAO and polyol ester bases are the main Friction Modifiers.

The Mercon chemistries usually have higher concentrations of nitrogen and phosphorous.

Boron and Phosphorous act as the main AW additives if the ZDDP is low or non-existent.

Calcium and magnesium are, of course, base metals and provide the "basicity" to keep acids in check and provide the starting tbn.

It has been found that ZDDP will turn the red-dyed ATF brown through oxidation, so some formulators have reduced or taken out the ZDDP and replaced it with other AW additives.


To which the same legend is queried by another member:
Originally Posted by nick778

So what is it in ATF that provides the 'super cleaning' when they add it as an engine flush? I'm not advocating anyone do this but given that some do (ie, the post under the atf section), what detergent or ester chemistry is producing these stories of great egine flush cleaning properties. I do not see detergents in any greater concentrations that regualr motor oil.


And the response:
Originally Posted by Molakule

Old wive's tales from long, long ago. Actually a few less detergents than engine oils.

Compare this against Delo and the Delvac's.


And then some further explanation:
Originally Posted by Molakule

It is not a matter of additive package, but of viscosity as to the source of this old wive's tale about ATF being a flush.


ATF is 0W20 to 5W20 and thins out the engine oil. Take a thick 10W40 of 'yore,' and add some ATF and the result is a thinner oil that might act as a mild wash.

The Auto tranny sees no combustion gasses, no silicons (unless the dipstick become unseated), so the tranny case is essentially sealed.

The main requirements of an ATF are thermal stability and friction modification (lubrication), with some anti-wear additive for the Sun, lock-up, and Planetary Gears, and of course, the needle/pin bearings. Add about 0.01% of anti-foamants (siloxanes) and some red dye for leak identification, and you have an ATF.

So, using an ATF in an engine is a waste of money and causes the engine's lubricating fluid film to reduce in thickness.
 
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Neighbor mechanic buddy would run dino in specified grade a quart short and a quart of atf for the make up. Get the engine warm and dump.



Modern ATF will do nada for cleaning.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Oildudeny
Neighbor mechanic buddy would run dino in specified grade a quart short and a quart of atf for the make up. Get the engine warm and dump.



Modern ATF will do nada for cleaning.



+1 We've been over this before, it does not clean, and dilutes the quality of the motor oil.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I thought ATF, particularly Dex/Merc IV, is loaded with dispersants?

It has dispersants but a dispersant is only useful to prevent deposition. Here you're trying to clean something.

Someone else who knows details will no doubt chime in but I don't think any ATF would be "loaded" with dispersants either. Why would it be? What would you have to disperse?
 
I poured Rislone into my Cobalt a while back, and it seemed very thin and hardly a SAE20 carrier oil. Has anyone else noticed this?
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I thought ATF, particularly Dex/Merc IV, is loaded with dispersants?


A dispersant is there in ATF but in very low treatment levels since there are no combustion carbon deposits to disperse.

BTW, todays ATF's average as follows as chemistry has changed since that previous post:

Phosphorous - 0.3% AW additive
Zinc - 0.015% secondary anti-oxidant as ZDDP
Nitrogen - 0.9% Mostly anti-oxidants and Friction Modification chemistry
Boron - 0.16% AW additive
Calcium - 0.1% Detergent, tbn base chemistry, and rust inhibitor
Magnesium - < 0.005% if any
Sulfur - < = 0.33% AW
Barium - Not Used anymore
Dye - 100 to 250 ppm any color these days but usually red analine dye
Dispersant - Ashless succinimide dispersant (succinic ester-amide dispersant, phosphorylated and borated) ~ 300 ppm which is 1/10 that found in engine oils)


So as you can see, both detergent and dispersant levels are very low.
 
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Here is a very simple test you can do. Next time you are working on the car and your hands are a mess get some clean transmission fluid and try to clean them. Then take off all the dirt that is left using clean engine oil. You will discover that clean engine oil makes a decent hand cleaner.

Just an easy simple test to confirm for yourself that ATF is not a good cleaner.

Rod
 
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